RX-9 to be a hybrid!
 

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...ech/index.html

Sad, may have to go back to the MX-5 in the future.

Nice, thanks for the article, interesting read.

I dont mind having a electric motor if it keeps the MPG down as long as they dont put a cylinder engine in an RX car.

Got to agree with this one. Extra power, less gas, can't really go wrong.

Mazda's niche in the market is making cars that are fun to drive so I dont have a problem with it being a hybrid either. As long as they stick to their Zoom-Zoom mentality. I am very excited to see what they come up with!

Very interesting. In a single sentence, it's an RX-7 for the 21st century using a rotary-hybrid combo based on the new MX-5 platform. Oh and it looks sexy :)

I would have a problem if it involved sticking a few hundred pounds of batteries into the car which, I'm glad to see, isn't the case here.

I could very well see this as being a "fix" to the MPG issue of the RX8 and one that would no doubt require a lot less engineering than trying to find serious improvements in the rotary engine. No surprise the "insider" mentioned that they just don't have the time or manpower to work on the RX8. As you all might recall, the RX8 was developed by a few guys on their time off! Mazda has to focus their engineers on cars that make them money and the rotary certainly isn't one.

I have been waiting to see Audi release a rotary powered range extender but maybe Mazda will get it to production first with this car. Ideally if the engine was kept at a constant (and perhaps low) rpm there would be good mileage to be had. I know recently Jeff Abrams' exploits in hypermiling his own RX8 have proved to be rather informative.

Much different application mind you but I think it shows that the rotary can get good fuel mileage under the right circumstances and I don't mean only when it's not running.

Anyone who believes that "hybrid" means weak-powered-econobox with a thousand pounds of batteries isn't thinking clear enough.

To prove this point, just research the Fraiser-Nash Namir. A tiny rotary with a tiny turbo powering 4 electric motors in an 1,100lb chassis (not including body/interior) with a 0-60 of 3.6 seconds or so, top speed of 195 or so, and gets 97.1 miles per gallon.

Whomever thought that making a PARALLEL hybrid in the first place wasn't thinking clear enough. Series hybrid has been in existence for decades in Locomotives, and it works for a reason.


And it doesn't even mean that the rotary just gets relegated to being a generator, removing the tactile joy of a rotary from driving the car, as it is possible to have it be transmission related, where there is an "electric" gear that transfers the engine power to a different output shaft that powers the electric motor and the ECU map for that gear is set for generator status in series hybrid. Go back to motor-to-road gears for the fire breathing fun.



This is all good news to me.

I still refuse to believe anything about this car until I see it or Mazda at least releases official specs.

x2.. proff is in the eyes of the beholder..

Hybrids are expensive :(

^ Of course you say that.

disappointing. i prefer it not be hybrid, but if it produces 500hp then ill buy one! only thing is its going to be expensive if its a hybrid and if it makes big power.

I totally agree. This seems to be a more realistic fix than trying to redesign the entire engine to achieve acceptable MPG standards. Sure advances will be made but Mazda is going to have to strike a balance with everything otherwise no one will buy the car and they won't be able to sell it.

Try re-reading the above posts. As for 500hp, sorry but if that was ever an option you'd be looking at GTR pricing.

https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/rx-9-news-207329/page3/ http://www.rx8forum.gr/homes/rx8foru...smilies/26.gif

GTR pricing is fine for a 500hp car. RX-9 should be a flagship car at the most. It's not going to outsell a civic or altima. And if it's hybrid and only puts out 300hp, then that is pretty disappointing. I won't buy it. With a hybrid engine it should at least hit 400hp. We want a supercar not a grocery getter or a econobox out of the rotary.

NOOOO ....i will plant a bomb in every RX9 if that happens , we dont want a prius!

Why do you need that much power? 300 hp is a good amount of power for a light weight car. 300 hp in the 8 would have made for an amazing car. Hopefully, the next RX will be even lighter.

Mazda isn't making a production supercar. There simply isn't a market for a mazda supercar, at least at this point in time. Mazda is a company and their goal is (or should be) to make profits. Not only would a more expensive car limit the consumers able to purchase the car, it would seriously limit the number that are willing to purchase it. Mazda would have to be making a significant change in brand image/direction to successfully build a car that could convince people that a mazda is worthy of the price range. As much as I'd like to see a rotary supercar, it just doesn't make sense for production purposes. The next RX should aim to compete against cars like the 370z in price and performance.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother trying to get people to understand that Mazda HAS ALWAYS...and will CONTINUE to produce the lowest powered sports cars in their respective segments. It's a known fact from numerous designers and developers over the years within Mazda that they intentionally do not compete on power.

They are still increasing the power, they aren't immune to that, but they don't compete for any titles there. EXPECT the next RX to have less power than whatever car it's competing against.

So if you get your 500hp car like you want, it will be priced against 600-800hp supercars.

Personally, that will mean that they won't make money on them, they won't sell very many, and rotary development would die. I don't want that. I want to drive the next one they make, which means I have to be able to afford it.

They will probably hit the 300hp mark, but be much lighter than their competitors, as they usually do, but to an even greater degree than before so the acceleration that everyone else cares about won't be all that far behind. But superhuman suspension again. Probably even better than the 8's.


You apparently missed what I wrote earlier.

The Prius is a PARALLEL hybrid, which is retarded, and gives the cars LOTS of drawbacks.

All they have to do is make it a SERIES hybrid, and it won't have those penalties, and be far more efficient. And they could even make it transmission based, where some gears dump the engine power to the ground for fire breathing fun, and another gear turns the engine into a generator for an electric engine for max fuel economy.


I'd buy that!

I want something that has individual motors to power each wheel like the Toyota FINE-S

maybe like this........https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ghlight=patent

I agree 100% with your marking positioning argument. Sell something that will make money and is positioned to sell some volume.

From the manufacturer's perspective power doesn't necessarily cost large amounts of money (eg. add displacement, make simple tweaks already on product roadmap).

Back to Mazda - I think turning the next RX hybrid will have a very real cost impact and make it more difficult to hit the markets Mazda has targeted with the FB, FC, and Miata. They're choosing to allocate say $5k of the car's cost towards the electric components and overall integration. Yes there may be more power and better fuel efficiency, but will it be the best way to achieve the end goal? IMO that money could have been spent improving the car in other ways. eg. Rotaries are thermally inefficient, IMO to regain some of that deficit they need to utilize turbos. Down size the engine displacement to say 1L with 13A/16X dimensions to gain efficiency. Use a direct injection turbo with reasonably high compression rotors. I think a little over 300HP is a realistic goal. I recall reading a quote from Bob Lutz who suggested adding direct injection and a turbo adds ~$2500 to the consumer's price. Maybe Mazda needs to consider going back to peripheral exhaust ports to maximize the turbo's potential, and trying to find a way to make it work. eg. Why does it need to utilize a conventional catalytic converter? Perhaps a new kind of emissions scrubber could be utilized. Another idea: What about a new take on turbo Miller cycle rotary?

Finally someone talking sense that disagrees with me :)


I don't think adding a hybrid will add that much to the final cost. Well, it will add that much, but I think they will end up with cost savings in other areas to either make up the difference, or more than make up the difference.

For example,
- a smaller car is inherently cheaper to make due to material usage, and we know it will be smaller
- If it shares the platform with the MX-5, that will be a HUGE cost savings for the development costs

Given the reliability history of the rotary though, and the even worse reliability with turbo'ed ones (strictly talking OEM turbos), I don't think Mazda will go that route. They get nearly the power level N/A that they used to with twin turbo, and with the 16X they are supposed to be near that 300hp level already. No, I don't think they will add turbos at all.

lol I WANT my RX8 to BE HYBRID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

How much do you think they have spent improving the rotary , trying different displacement configurations, eccentricity and volume, materials, fuel injection, oil injection, spark timing, port locations and on and on. This isn't a piston engine its a rotary. no change is a simple as it is on a piston. you cant just bore the chamber or change the crank for stroke. everything changes.

you dont think they they ahave tried a thousand different ways?


You think... its not easy to make 300 bhp on this 1.3l. but you think going to 1 liter and boosting w direct injection will make 300bhp. what makes you think that?. why do you think they havent tried DI and FI? because they have. There have shown DI engines around for like 5-7 years. They have shown DI AND DI and turbo. DI and "electrically-assissted" turbo. Renesis AND 16x. Try to remember that Mazda hasnt announced what the engine configuration will be in the next RX. This speculation of Hybrid may be just twisted "whisper down the lane" confirmation of the electric assissted turbo.

can't. emissions.shown emissions. they have to use a cat. its specified in the law. but they have spent considerable time and money to improve the catalytic converter over the last 8 years what about an HCCI rotary or a Diesel Rotary?