Official 2009 Formula 1 Season Discussion
09-21-2009, 11:23 PM
#1426
Registered
nice, do you know if korea is going to be a city race?
09-22-2009, 12:48 AM
#1427
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No seriously I find it charming to go up early in the morning for the australia race. It makes for a good day of gaming after
09-22-2009, 09:44 AM
#1430
In the US, the races start at 8 am on the east coast, 7am for us in the central and 5 am for the west coast. We have to be up early all the time to watch the race live. I don't mind as I'm an early riser, but it could be a reason for F1 not gaining a larger audience in the US. The early time also works to F1's favor, as it doesn't have to compete for TV time with other sporting events (eg. stick & ball sports). For Australia, I watch the race with a 1 am start time.
Last edited by alnielsen; 09-22-2009 at 09:46 AM.
09-22-2009, 09:55 AM
#1431
The reports are that Alonso is targeting a podium finish for Singapore. And they are still planning for some small refinements of the car for the remainder of the season. Their main focus, at the moment, is to get the 2010 car ready.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78791
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78793
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78791
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78793
09-22-2009, 11:18 AM
#1433
Registered
F1 World Lashes out at the FIA
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909222...-gate-leniency
i agree, i dont understand how mclaren got a 100mill fine, but renault only has to pay 1mil?
so max felt that he is right just going after flav and his sidekick. but felt he had punish mclaren as a whole, instead of the 3 ppl who was in the spygate 2 years ago?
The press hit out after Renault escaped almost unscathed from Monday's so-called 'crash-gate' hearing of the World Motor Sport Council.
In its judgement, the FIA tribunal said the rules breach was of "unparalleled severity", but the London newspaper The Times said the penalty was one of "unparalleled leniency".
"The FIA cannot have it both ways," said the daily broadsheet, comparing the two-year suspended disqualification and Renault's paying for the FIA investigation with McLaren's $100m 'spy-gate' fine two years ago.
"The bill for the investigation is about $1.6 million, which makes Renault's sanction roughly $98.4 million cheaper," it added.
Spain's El Mundo agreed, calling crash-gate "a scandal without precedent and almost without punishment".
The Daily Mail likened Renault's feat to "The Great Escape", arguing that the French team "should not only be permanently expelled from the track, but face serious criminal charges".
Singapore newspaper The Straits Times accused F1's governing body of "one of sport's biggest cop-outs" and said by not harshly penalising the deliberate crash, the FIA is telling F1's fans and marshals "that their lives are far less important than possibly losing the support of a car-making giant".
The New York Times agreed that the FIA had moved to safeguard "the participation of one of its most powerful and wealthy sponsors", and Britain's Daily Telegraph said "no one had foreseen quite how lenient the punishment would be".
FIA president Max Mosley, however, defended the decision to penalise only the individual conspirators Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds rather than revert to the principle of collective responsibility.
"Renault has demonstrated that they have absolutely no moral responsibility for what took place so it would be wrong to impose an immediate penalty," he said in Paris, and argued that the lifetime disqualification from F1, albeit suspended for two years, is actually a harsh sanction.
"The blame has been placed where it should be placed and it's the right decision," Mosley added.
But Ari Vatanen, an independent candidate to succeed Mosley in October's elections, said the fact that the world smells an inside deal strengthens his case for "absolutely independent justice" in these sorts of disciplinary matters.
1996 world champion Damon Hill agrees. "Knowing what we know, we cannot dissociate this from the power play going on behind the scenes for control of formula one," he said.
Mohammed Ben Sulayem, the United Arab Emirates' automobile club president and FIA vice president for sport, gave some insight into the World Motor Sport Council's decision in conversation with local newspaper The National.
"We did our negotiations before and everybody is happy with the result," he said. "The verdict is fair and everyone is a winner."
Ben Sulayem also suggested that considerations other than the actual facts of the Singapore crash influenced his vote.
"I had to be loyal to my country as well as motor sport," he said.
"Protecting the investments Abu Dhabi has made into formula one is my duty; it is a big show and it needs teams .... (and) in the current crisis, you cannot go around hitting people and causing severe damage.
"We all want to see Renault (in F1). This is the result everyone wanted."
French industry minister Christian Estrosi told L'Equipe: "It (the decision) is a good thing for French industry and a good thing for the sport in general."
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909222...-gate-leniency
i agree, i dont understand how mclaren got a 100mill fine, but renault only has to pay 1mil?
so max felt that he is right just going after flav and his sidekick. but felt he had punish mclaren as a whole, instead of the 3 ppl who was in the spygate 2 years ago?
The press hit out after Renault escaped almost unscathed from Monday's so-called 'crash-gate' hearing of the World Motor Sport Council.
In its judgement, the FIA tribunal said the rules breach was of "unparalleled severity", but the London newspaper The Times said the penalty was one of "unparalleled leniency".
"The FIA cannot have it both ways," said the daily broadsheet, comparing the two-year suspended disqualification and Renault's paying for the FIA investigation with McLaren's $100m 'spy-gate' fine two years ago.
"The bill for the investigation is about $1.6 million, which makes Renault's sanction roughly $98.4 million cheaper," it added.
Spain's El Mundo agreed, calling crash-gate "a scandal without precedent and almost without punishment".
The Daily Mail likened Renault's feat to "The Great Escape", arguing that the French team "should not only be permanently expelled from the track, but face serious criminal charges".
Singapore newspaper The Straits Times accused F1's governing body of "one of sport's biggest cop-outs" and said by not harshly penalising the deliberate crash, the FIA is telling F1's fans and marshals "that their lives are far less important than possibly losing the support of a car-making giant".
The New York Times agreed that the FIA had moved to safeguard "the participation of one of its most powerful and wealthy sponsors", and Britain's Daily Telegraph said "no one had foreseen quite how lenient the punishment would be".
FIA president Max Mosley, however, defended the decision to penalise only the individual conspirators Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds rather than revert to the principle of collective responsibility.
"Renault has demonstrated that they have absolutely no moral responsibility for what took place so it would be wrong to impose an immediate penalty," he said in Paris, and argued that the lifetime disqualification from F1, albeit suspended for two years, is actually a harsh sanction.
"The blame has been placed where it should be placed and it's the right decision," Mosley added.
But Ari Vatanen, an independent candidate to succeed Mosley in October's elections, said the fact that the world smells an inside deal strengthens his case for "absolutely independent justice" in these sorts of disciplinary matters.
1996 world champion Damon Hill agrees. "Knowing what we know, we cannot dissociate this from the power play going on behind the scenes for control of formula one," he said.
Mohammed Ben Sulayem, the United Arab Emirates' automobile club president and FIA vice president for sport, gave some insight into the World Motor Sport Council's decision in conversation with local newspaper The National.
"We did our negotiations before and everybody is happy with the result," he said. "The verdict is fair and everyone is a winner."
Ben Sulayem also suggested that considerations other than the actual facts of the Singapore crash influenced his vote.
"I had to be loyal to my country as well as motor sport," he said.
"Protecting the investments Abu Dhabi has made into formula one is my duty; it is a big show and it needs teams .... (and) in the current crisis, you cannot go around hitting people and causing severe damage.
"We all want to see Renault (in F1). This is the result everyone wanted."
French industry minister Christian Estrosi told L'Equipe: "It (the decision) is a good thing for French industry and a good thing for the sport in general."
Last edited by alfy28; 09-22-2009 at 11:22 AM.
09-22-2009, 11:48 AM
#1435
I read that previously. There are two things at work here. First, there is FIA politics. Some are using this to work against Mosley. Second, Renault and McLaren are two different companies. McLaren is F1. You can't separate McLaren from F1. Renault is different. Their focus is manufacturing road cars. F1 & racing is a marketing tool for them. It is easier to see the parent company not having any knowledge of wrongdoing in the case of Renault. In McLaren's case, the top did know what was going on.
09-22-2009, 02:43 PM
#1437
Registered
tihngs might get even more uglier if Flav has something more to say. i wonder if he does speak, iw onder what would be revealed
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909222...-back--reports
Some sections of the media believe Monday was the end of the crash-gate scandal, but a scorned Flavio Briatore may be now readying to hit back.
Spanish motor racing chief Carlos Gracia told the AS newspaper that he believes the 59-year-old Italian might be justified in now pursuing court action to contest his life ban from any participation in motor sport.
"I wouldn't rule out him going to ordinary justice because he has been left without his means of earning a living," said the Spaniard.
It is believed Briatore did receive a late invitation to Monday's World Motor Sport Council meeting, but chose not to attend.
Sections of the Italian press said Briatore might use his rancour to launch a non-FIA sanctioned rival to formula one, and he told La Gazzetta dello Sport: "I am distraught."
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909222...-back--reports
Some sections of the media believe Monday was the end of the crash-gate scandal, but a scorned Flavio Briatore may be now readying to hit back.
Spanish motor racing chief Carlos Gracia told the AS newspaper that he believes the 59-year-old Italian might be justified in now pursuing court action to contest his life ban from any participation in motor sport.
"I wouldn't rule out him going to ordinary justice because he has been left without his means of earning a living," said the Spaniard.
It is believed Briatore did receive a late invitation to Monday's World Motor Sport Council meeting, but chose not to attend.
Sections of the Italian press said Briatore might use his rancour to launch a non-FIA sanctioned rival to formula one, and he told La Gazzetta dello Sport: "I am distraught."
09-22-2009, 02:45 PM
#1438
A second witness against Briatore and Symonds!
The FIA has issued documents and recordings of the World Motor Sport Council hearing into the Renault-Singapore Affair. This is fascinating as it reveals that there was a second witness to confirm Nelson Piquet’s claims, known only as WItness X, described as another member of the Renault F1 team who, although not a conspirator himself, knew of the conspiracy at the time of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. This witness was found by Renault F1. The team stated in its submissions of 17 September 2009 that Witness X had confirmed that Mr Briatore had known of the deliberate crash plan before it had been put into effect
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21840.html
The FIA has issued documents and recordings of the World Motor Sport Council hearing into the Renault-Singapore Affair. This is fascinating as it reveals that there was a second witness to confirm Nelson Piquet’s claims, known only as WItness X, described as another member of the Renault F1 team who, although not a conspirator himself, knew of the conspiracy at the time of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. This witness was found by Renault F1. The team stated in its submissions of 17 September 2009 that Witness X had confirmed that Mr Briatore had known of the deliberate crash plan before it had been put into effect
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21840.html
09-23-2009, 08:03 AM
#1439
Registered
Just when y ou thought it was over. new info about witness x
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909232...briatores-fate
mystery Renault F1 employee, described by the World Motor Sport Council as 'witness X' and by the French team as 'the whistle blower', sealed the outcome of the crash-gate scandal.
The person, whose identity was protected in order to encourage the cooperation of whistleblowers in future, told Renault and the FIA that he was present at a meeting in Singapore last year when Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore mentioned the plan for Nelson Piquet Jr to crash deliberately.
The meeting took place supposedly before Piquet knew about the conspiracy, in the hours after qualifying. However, both Symonds and 'witness x' contend that the conspiracy was actually the Brazilian driver's idea.
Witness X, whose existence was revealed in the publication by the FIA of the World Motor Sport Council documentation, said Piquet "suggested the idea of a deliberate crash to atone for his poor performance in qualifying".
"(Witness X) objected to the idea (of the deliberate crash)," Renault said in its written submissions to Monday's hearing in Paris.
Witness X also told the FIA during interview that "Mr (Flavio) Briatore was involved in the conspiracy".
Departed engineering director Symonds, who had declined the FIA's offer of immunity and also the invitation to appear in Paris, did submit a letter to the Council, in which he sadly acknowledged "my role in this incident".
In recordings of the hearing also released by the FIA, Renault's lawyer Ali Malek QC confirmed that the team - but not Briatore - has withdrawn its French criminal proceedings against Piquet.
Malek also admitted that Renault had given "very serious consideration" about its commitment to F1, but ultimately decided to stay in the sport.
In answer to a question by Bernie Ecclestone, he also confirmed that Briatore and Symonds would have been sacked if they had not voluntarily resigned.
It also emerged that Sir Frank Williams, who has historical links with the French carmaker and may also be coveting an engine supply for 2010, wrote a letter to the Council in support of Renault.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909232...briatores-fate
mystery Renault F1 employee, described by the World Motor Sport Council as 'witness X' and by the French team as 'the whistle blower', sealed the outcome of the crash-gate scandal.
The person, whose identity was protected in order to encourage the cooperation of whistleblowers in future, told Renault and the FIA that he was present at a meeting in Singapore last year when Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore mentioned the plan for Nelson Piquet Jr to crash deliberately.
The meeting took place supposedly before Piquet knew about the conspiracy, in the hours after qualifying. However, both Symonds and 'witness x' contend that the conspiracy was actually the Brazilian driver's idea.
Witness X, whose existence was revealed in the publication by the FIA of the World Motor Sport Council documentation, said Piquet "suggested the idea of a deliberate crash to atone for his poor performance in qualifying".
"(Witness X) objected to the idea (of the deliberate crash)," Renault said in its written submissions to Monday's hearing in Paris.
Witness X also told the FIA during interview that "Mr (Flavio) Briatore was involved in the conspiracy".
Departed engineering director Symonds, who had declined the FIA's offer of immunity and also the invitation to appear in Paris, did submit a letter to the Council, in which he sadly acknowledged "my role in this incident".
In recordings of the hearing also released by the FIA, Renault's lawyer Ali Malek QC confirmed that the team - but not Briatore - has withdrawn its French criminal proceedings against Piquet.
Malek also admitted that Renault had given "very serious consideration" about its commitment to F1, but ultimately decided to stay in the sport.
In answer to a question by Bernie Ecclestone, he also confirmed that Briatore and Symonds would have been sacked if they had not voluntarily resigned.
It also emerged that Sir Frank Williams, who has historical links with the French carmaker and may also be coveting an engine supply for 2010, wrote a letter to the Council in support of Renault.
Last edited by alfy28; 09-23-2009 at 08:25 AM.
09-23-2009, 12:26 PM
#1440
Registered
i wonder if BSe50 is leading these group of ppl to revolt against the FIA lol.
man is Italy pissed atm.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909232...piracy-revenge
While the British media slammed the leniency of Renault's crash-gate penalty, in Italy the press corps hit out at an alleged conspiracy and act of vengeance against Flavio Briatore.
La Gazzetta dello Sport also lashed out at Renault's lack of loyalty to the 59-year-old Briton, who has been banned for life from either entering a paddock or managing a driver.
"Renault did not hesitate to throw away the man who gave the team four world championship titles, only in the hope of getting off with a mild sanction," said the Italian sports daily.
Corriere dello Sport added: "The (FIA) judgement stinks; that was revenge. In order to save Renault, he took the responsibility for this whole affair. Nelson Piquet escapes with his dirty work accomplished and his revenge achieved."
The major Italian broadsheet La Repubblica charged: "Briatore pays for everything, Renault saves itself."
Said Tuttosport, another Italian sports newspaper: "In the Piquet case, only Briatore pays. He is the victim of a conspiracy.
"The latest black chapter in F1's history has the flavour of revenge against Briatore," added the publication, referring to the former Renault boss' leading stance against Max Mosley amid the recent breakaway threats.
The Milan-based daily Corriere della Sera said: "Mosley got his revenge at the Place de la Concorde, where during the French revolution the guillotine stood."
man is Italy pissed atm.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10909232...piracy-revenge
While the British media slammed the leniency of Renault's crash-gate penalty, in Italy the press corps hit out at an alleged conspiracy and act of vengeance against Flavio Briatore.
La Gazzetta dello Sport also lashed out at Renault's lack of loyalty to the 59-year-old Briton, who has been banned for life from either entering a paddock or managing a driver.
"Renault did not hesitate to throw away the man who gave the team four world championship titles, only in the hope of getting off with a mild sanction," said the Italian sports daily.
Corriere dello Sport added: "The (FIA) judgement stinks; that was revenge. In order to save Renault, he took the responsibility for this whole affair. Nelson Piquet escapes with his dirty work accomplished and his revenge achieved."
The major Italian broadsheet La Repubblica charged: "Briatore pays for everything, Renault saves itself."
Said Tuttosport, another Italian sports newspaper: "In the Piquet case, only Briatore pays. He is the victim of a conspiracy.
"The latest black chapter in F1's history has the flavour of revenge against Briatore," added the publication, referring to the former Renault boss' leading stance against Max Mosley amid the recent breakaway threats.
The Milan-based daily Corriere della Sera said: "Mosley got his revenge at the Place de la Concorde, where during the French revolution the guillotine stood."
09-23-2009, 12:43 PM
#1441
Registered Tracker
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I agree that the whole thing stinks, but realistically Renault realized that if the FIA kicked them out, it would require a whole new set of rules in F1, but also the death of all the feeder series that Renault sponsors or otherwise helps. They supply engines for GP2, the World Series by Renault, and a whole lot of other series. The FIA went into think knowing that is would really screw up the whole F1 world if Renault was sent packing. Plus, then next year who is going to supply engines? Cosworth is maxed out, same with Mercedes and Ferrari. So they would end up with at least 2 teams that would need a source of power plants. Who would step in and supply? Who could?
09-23-2009, 01:20 PM
#1442
Cosworth is maxed out because they are just ramping up. Cosworth used to supply the engines to all the teams except for Ferrari at one time.
There's the problem isn't it. If one of the engine suppliers drops out of the series, where are the other teams going to go? I think this is what Mosley is thinking when he wanted the new teams to use Cosworth. The manufactures are fickle and cold decide to pull out at any time, like Honda.
There's the problem isn't it. If one of the engine suppliers drops out of the series, where are the other teams going to go? I think this is what Mosley is thinking when he wanted the new teams to use Cosworth. The manufactures are fickle and cold decide to pull out at any time, like Honda.
09-23-2009, 02:41 PM
#1443
USF1 Update
Campos and USF1 join team alliance
Two of the new Formula One teams for next year, Campos and USF1, have confirmed that they have been accepted to join the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA).
FOTA said recently that all new teams are eligible to join. It is believed that Manor has also joined the alliance, and that the new Malaysian-owned Lotus outfit will also sign up shortly.
It is further believed that the new teams will be represented when FOTA gathers to meet at the verge of the Singapore Grand Prix this week.
Peter Windsor told GP Week that USF1 is now a FOTA member, and was asked about the rumours that the team is behind schedule in its preparations for 2010.
"I think some people are wondering what we're up to - Visit us in November/December and you'll see a great F1 facility working on some beautiful race cars at 100% commitment level," he answered.
The Spanish news agency EFE said it will be team owner and boss Adrian Campos who will represent his new Spanish team at the Singapore FOTA meeting.
Campos also revealed that a FIA delegation visited his team's headquarters last week as the sport's governing body inspects the progress of the sport's newest entries.
He also said: "We are very content with the work that Cosworth is carrying out in the development of the engine. We are sure that we will have a great engine that will allow us to fulfil the objectives of our F1 debut."
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...23105028.shtml
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other news, Piquet may seek race drive in America
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...23173505.shtml
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=346322:F1
There are no details in which series he is looking at.
I say, stay in Brazil. Can you believe that he is still looking to get back into F1?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgian court suspends exploitation license for Francorchamps
http://www.f1technical.net/news/13382
"This could endanger the 2010 Belgian Grand Prix which is scheduled for 29 August."
Two of the new Formula One teams for next year, Campos and USF1, have confirmed that they have been accepted to join the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA).
FOTA said recently that all new teams are eligible to join. It is believed that Manor has also joined the alliance, and that the new Malaysian-owned Lotus outfit will also sign up shortly.
It is further believed that the new teams will be represented when FOTA gathers to meet at the verge of the Singapore Grand Prix this week.
Peter Windsor told GP Week that USF1 is now a FOTA member, and was asked about the rumours that the team is behind schedule in its preparations for 2010.
"I think some people are wondering what we're up to - Visit us in November/December and you'll see a great F1 facility working on some beautiful race cars at 100% commitment level," he answered.
The Spanish news agency EFE said it will be team owner and boss Adrian Campos who will represent his new Spanish team at the Singapore FOTA meeting.
Campos also revealed that a FIA delegation visited his team's headquarters last week as the sport's governing body inspects the progress of the sport's newest entries.
He also said: "We are very content with the work that Cosworth is carrying out in the development of the engine. We are sure that we will have a great engine that will allow us to fulfil the objectives of our F1 debut."
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...23105028.shtml
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other news, Piquet may seek race drive in America
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...23173505.shtml
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=346322:F1
There are no details in which series he is looking at.
I say, stay in Brazil. Can you believe that he is still looking to get back into F1?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgian court suspends exploitation license for Francorchamps
http://www.f1technical.net/news/13382
"This could endanger the 2010 Belgian Grand Prix which is scheduled for 29 August."
Last edited by alnielsen; 09-23-2009 at 02:49 PM.
09-23-2009, 04:25 PM
#1444
@Alfy: this is what the italian media said, right. Be it true or not... who cares? we got rid of an ******* imho.
Then comes bernie... Mr. todt will be a much better figure and mind behind the sport, again imho
Then comes bernie... Mr. todt will be a much better figure and mind behind the sport, again imho
09-23-2009, 04:34 PM
#1445
Registered
Last edited by alfy28; 09-23-2009 at 04:42 PM.
09-23-2009, 04:42 PM
#1446
ROFL! The problem is that we DO are! He was such an arrogant person with very little culture!
Consider that his lounge bar, the billionaire in sardinia is where most of the scandals happen, you can't enter there without spending something like 500€ and watching vips sniffing and injecting drugs.
If you run a place like that you must be like that.
Consider that his lounge bar, the billionaire in sardinia is where most of the scandals happen, you can't enter there without spending something like 500€ and watching vips sniffing and injecting drugs.
If you run a place like that you must be like that.
09-23-2009, 04:56 PM
#1448
we need more jean todts, dominicalis and ron dennis in the sport... they might be tough bones but at least they fight hard in the public as well, not always crying with FOTA etc.
09-23-2009, 04:57 PM
#1449
ROFL! The problem is that we DO are! He was such an arrogant person with very little culture!
Consider that his lounge bar, the billionaire in sardinia is where most of the scandals happen, you can't enter there without spending something like 500€ and watching vips sniffing and injecting drugs.
If you run a place like that you must be like that.
Consider that his lounge bar, the billionaire in sardinia is where most of the scandals happen, you can't enter there without spending something like 500€ and watching vips sniffing and injecting drugs.
If you run a place like that you must be like that.