RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

@ MM

I'm not trying to justify their reasons for doing what they do, only giving reasons that they might use to justify it. And pointing out that it doesn't matter if you or I believe it is stupid for company A to do X.

Even if it is entirely stupid and will bring the company to it's knees, those bad decisions are made every day without consulting us first, and bring companies to their knees, small and large alike.

Don't discount the possibility that Mazda will do something you view as entirely stupid.

After all, they've done it before

PhillipM

Afaik the 'RX-9' has always been touted as an RX7 replacement, rather than an RX8 replacement, they've been saying the same thing for years?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Remember their Kamakazi thing, I mean, to most of us, that's pure suicide act with little to no benefit. but to them, its an honor to serve their country, even if they have to die like "that".

the fact was that their suicide attempt did hurt Pearl Harbor pretty bad. and to be honest if they go all out(without China dragging them from behind) and we didn't have Atomic bomb that time. Its really hard to say what would happen. Cuz they're simply nuts.

so its really hard for most of us to understand the Japanese people's "passion/craziness" about something. If they really like something, they really just gonna "do it," no questions asked. even if it will kill them(or the company) at the end.

j_tso

They didn't start kamikaze attacks until they were losing, it's a last resort attack to take the enemy with them. Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack, no need to go kill themselves if the enemy is unaware.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

they start losing on the china side cuz they made some really stupid error, one of them is they dragged the line far too long, having issues with supplies.

Pearl Harbor was a surprised attack, but when it comes to war, surprised attack is the most efficient way to strike your enemy.

it was still a kamikaze attack tho, people pretty much crash their planes down to sink the warships.

but my point is, Japanese people are ---- if they like/love something, they do it. no matter what cost.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Jeff-- I wonder why would such a lodgical and pragmatic person buy a car that is underpowered, has poor gas milage and with possible inherant flaws?
Why would anyone that thinks lodgically buy a rotary engined car? Does passion take preferance over reason? And thats why I am eating this here cinimon roll--right now.
Bingo.
OD

CrazyJek

Either way, making another rotary powered car WILL NOT drive the company into the ground. If they made all cars powered by it then yes. They are screwed.

But they are going to have a whole lineup of SKY cars and that will be their bread and butter. A rotary powered car is just a side thing for the most part nowadays that holds Mazda's history true. They will have one. You just watch.

They will build it and people will buy it. FFS maybe they will advertise it this time for once.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Because the chassis is perfect and I like the way it looked. I have hated the engine from the start and knew it would present challenges. If tuning it hadn't become a source of revenue for me, I would have swapped it immediately years ago.

I just acquired an S2K motor for it, btw...


I think you might want to reexamine your understanding of history. You are quite off from reality on that one.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

It's really quite iffy to generalize a modern population based on what happened 50+ years ago. Applied to the USA for example, one might conclude that American women don't have jobs outside the home or blacks must still ride at the back of the bus.

I used to say that the Japanese made the best cars in the world because they had HQ's located the fartherest from Harvard Business School. However, of late, even Toyota has proven they have an active Product Cheapening Department.

What Mazda will or won't do is unknown (even to them I suspect). There were many years Corvette made no money, excluding a possible halo effect, for GM, now it seems well. Ten years ago who could have imagined Cadillac as a serious performance car or that the Mini would still exist or that Hyuandi would be offering $45k luxury cars?

ASH8

Mazda have made next to nothing on the 8..in fact it is a loss.

They made only 180,000 and have replaced at least a third with new engines, that has cost them ANY profit.

Sadly the S2 was a fizzler, a better model, but too little too late...

Everything on the 8 was already overdeveloped to get it to market (except Apex Seal lubrication)...THERE WAS NO ROOM FOR ANY MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS...particularly from a regualtory standpoint...emissions.

BTW: Emission's IS the reason why the 8 was dropped from Europe, like many other engines...it won't pass regs.

ASH8

I never believed the 'RX-9 Hybrid Sports' car media crap.

The RX-8 will continue to be made until 2013 locally..like the FD..then we will see.

The ONLY reason I kept my 8 is BECAUSE of the Rotary....why would anyone put a Banger in a RX-8 chassis with perfect balance...no money I guess.

I thought my 8 handled Great, but my new SE MX-5 (Bilsteins) is at another level..unbelievable!
Being a much smaller car one would think ride would be choppy and bad, well again it rides better than my 8!...

Mazda (as I said years ago) had the opportunity to drop a Rotary in the MX-5, but they did not.it would have sold better than the 8..IMO

I just can not see where Mazda will find "better" economy with ANY new Rotary (Direct Injection) still wont be enough.

I just can not see ANY business case for any new rotary..

As I said the Rotary as we know it (NA Gasoline) is finished.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

There are plenty of efficiency improvement points already identified.

Anyone that thinks the rotary is dead forever has my permission to not buy the next one. I won't get offended

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

We shall see. I will be happy to say "I told you so". Who the hell gives a **** about gas mileage and buys a sports car? I mean, I probably spend more money on Coca Cola in a month than I would save if I drove something that averaged 20-25MPG.

ASH8

There are...where??...not in a production model.

I have never said the rotary is dead forever, just as we know it.

BTW: Mazda have never stopped making Rotary Engines for the past 40 years, will they do so after 2013?

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

A hybrid system isn't that far away from KERS.

ASH8

Don't necessarily disagree with you mate..said the same myself, I don't care about MPG..

BUT the motoring media now does...they expect (In America) to have even faster and more powerful engines with 'economy' FFS.

I seriously have a problem when a car owner wants economy, but then drag races off from traffic lights time after time and then complains about MPG....fools.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I think so, even if just in Japan, like they did with the FD, if only making a handful a year to keep that run going.

And if you are only defining the RX-8's engine as the "as we know it", then of course, I agree. But then that's saying that the FD's engine was dead "as we know it" in 1994. Didn't mean the rotary was dead.

Moving on to narrower rotors, different fuel and spark delivery methods, possible different eccentricity, alternate fuels, series hybrid, etc... none of them are the rotary "as we know it", but they are still rotary engines and they still qualify as keeping it alive.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Because the only thing the RX-8 is lacking is a reliable powerplant.

I presume you meant "boinger", BTW.

The S2K motor gets 50% better economy than the rotary, revs just as high and will make my target 360 wheel HP with only 9 PSI of boost on a relatively small turbo. It will also last nearly forever at that boost level.

Best part is it will do all that without changing the balance or function of the chassis one bit. It will bolt right up to the RX-8 tranny and, with the right oil pan, will sit in exactly the same spot as the Renesis.

I will also be able to get all of the creature comforts of the RX-8 to function in perfect harmony with the engine management of the S2K (AEM) as well as passing emissions in my state.

So, uh, yeah.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Hmmmmm, F20C in your RX-8's future?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah, it sucks that manufacturers exaggerate mileage figures but honestly if you have a lead foot the mileage in any car will go down significantly. I'm not sure how accurate the system is in the 3 but my GF has a 2010 Mazda 3 2.5 and my average fuel economy dodging through traffic yesterday was only about 22MPG

The display said her average MPG was 29MPG She drives very slow.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

interesting...
we'll have to chat soon, I wanna hear more about this.

zoom44

thats exactly right. nothing has changed in the basic rumor for years. thats what I said the other day. this article by car and driver just repeats the same thing thats been said over and over except for denouncing the newest detail of the hybrid.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

The mileage is a figure given by the U.S. EPA spec driving cycle. Mazda has no control over it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I missed that. Great engine.

Really? I have never came close to averaging mileage close to the numbers on my window sticker. Even when I was using cruise control driving 35 miles to work.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

That is called the Monroney Sticker and the EPA figures are required to be on there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker