MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Ours would sound equally thin with a screaming VQ in front of it.

Many say the same of the RX-8. I think it is extremely attractive, so our opinions cancel out, anyway.
The way it looks really isn't its main problem...

Arguably one of the most successful engine designs ever advanced and the Subaru boxers are extremely viable performance platforms.

They've been slowly abandoning it over the past several years as they've retracted replacement parts for past rotaries one by one.

Mazda is already black-balled on rotary-powered cars for the European market.
Any new rotary-powered car would already be hobbled by the fact that it wouldn't be allowed to sell in Europe at all, regardless of its emissions status.
The recent removal of the RX-8 from the European market wasn't really about emissions, though that was the language that was used. It was about taxes.
The EU countries were tired of the rotary getting around the luxury taxes in many countries by virtue of the rotary displacement. Imposing a tax on the rotary specifically would have been the same thing as a tax on a single manufacturer, so ousting it based on emissions restrictions was an easy out.

MattMPS

Agree, they are bigger dogs than Mazda.

About hybrid.... why not if you build a sport sedan with a total of 300 hp?

I'm more skeptical about a rx-7 2 seater with hybrid, that's a pig.......

FT86? that's is more a mx-5 ND competitor IMHO, let's see official data....

bse50

Well most places double its displacement (even FIA doesn't really double it..) to get around our advantage but the nail in the coffin was the market itself.
You know the results of servicing a rotary every 12000miles and changine the plugs at 60.000 right?

MattMPS

Taxes in EU are "Co2-guided" in maximum part. cut Co2 emissions and rotary engine don't have any problem about taxation.

1,5€ for 1 liter of gas don't help, BTW.......

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

the sky is falling!! the sky is falling!!

Whatever, if they build another one that's great, if they don't then I'll just look elsewhere for another fun car when the time comes. I'm a bit burned out on the Mazda dealerships around here anyway. I dont mind the Genesis, only thing I absoluely despise about it is the engine bay, it looks like the engine is about 3 sizes too big for where they put it, besides, for the same money you can get a camaro v6 which is actually a pretty decent car. The 370 is cool save for that front end and those awful door handles it inherited from its pig 350z brother, what gives with Mazda and their "smiley" thing and Nissan doing the whole bucktooth look? "Here, you can't afford a GT-r, but this car looks like one too!!!1...in the front!! yay!!! isn't that cool?!?!?!!1"....ugh.

pistonhater

I find it hard to believe Mazda has not made a profit by selling RX-8s - or that it will not make a profit by selling a new one. If the product made no profit whatsoever, they would have taken the car off the market by 2004, LOL.

Small people here make it sound as if Mazda continues with the rotary engine just for the love of it and/or because of the rotary engine enthusiasts. No company sells anything without profit

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Its all just "we guess" "we thought" right now.

Rotary powered car was never a big seller for Mazda. If they want to stop they did it long time ago. even as good as FD/FC, they were not making much money off from it (if they even made any)

you guys underestimate the dedication of the Japanese people, if they want to "do" something, they will do it, no matter what the consequences are.

I can take MM's bet, but if I lose (car never came out and rotary is gone for good) then what should I buy? I can't buy something that does not exist

Even if I win (car do come out) I still gonna be on the pre-order list and I'm sure anybody on the pre-order list will have to pay at least MSRP.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Yea I remember you said that ... 12K miles. That's just a "little" too much ... even for most piston engine cars.

and most drivers no matter Euro or America or Africa, etc. they just DON'T check their oil! at 12K miles ... the oil light will come on at least couple of times and the "stupid" owners will be like "hey, this car SUCKKKKKSSSS!"

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

One more thing, ---- I never really trust stuff from Car and Driver. They bs a lot just just like any other Magazine. Their "insider info" could be from a Security guard at the front gate.

Just look at Sky-Activ, they didn't even release much info until a year or 2 ago and its coming out end of this year. so there is about 2 years gap between the product info and official release.

So if they're going to release something. they will announce it about 1 & 1/2 to 2 yrs before hand.

They already announced they're working on 16x 3 yrs ago and increasing displacement has been working for Mazda for decades (for both increasing efficiency and power output), but since there are more tree huggers now than ever Mazda gotta be "REAL" careful on the emission part.

like Knight Sports people said, You shouldn't compare RX-8 to Rx-7 at ALL, cuz they are completely different. RX-7 was design to be purely compeition/sports car. RX-8 was designed to meet emission.

so yea if they want to keep this engine alive, first thing they have to pay attention is ---- Emission, and that's a really hard goal to reach, way too many tree huggers & clueless politicians these days ---

but again if the Japanese wants to do something bad, they WILL do it. That's how Renesis even exist in the first place (couple engineers got pissed when they cut their R&D funding)

even tho it might seem like a suicide act *cough* to others. they will surprise you

MattMPS

True. But times now are tougher and Mazda floats alone into Automotive World Market.

they have always talked about "committment" regarding rotary, but obviously they need to do some calc.

a rotary car will come IMHO. but just one.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

You talk as though Mazda's history started with the FC. There was a time the the rotary engine was the only one they put in their cars.
A tiny Mazda was able to bring the rotary engine from prototype stage to production. Over the years, working alone, they have be able to refine it to the state we see today. Once fuel economy problems are worked out, we will see another car produced with one. An increase in economy will result in reduced emissions.
What number they choose to put after the RX doesn't matter.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I know, all the older cars and stuff. and There was a time Mazda was about to turn into a "purely" Rotary engine based car manufacture and it almost raped them.

but what I am saying is after that "approach" almost killed Mazda, Rotary engine never made much money for them, but still year after year new one just keeps coming and surprised everybody.

This "Rotary engine is dead/no more" just keeps coming back year after year, generation after generation from the "people outside/omg insider information/etc"

For me, unless Mazda comes out and officially announce that "ok, we're done with Rotary Engine, yep, fairwell," I will never give my hopes up.


*btw* the R&D fund they spent on S2 RX-8 cost almost the same as the money they spent on the original RX-8, and that's big money. if they're giving it up, they wouldn't even bother with the new E-OMP and all other crap they're "trying" on the new engine. Especially now Ford is "gone" they have much more control of what they want to do.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Okay well maybe you are right and he could be full of **** but I still think there will be another rotary powered Mazda Sports Car relatively soon.

But if I lose, I am not committed to buying whatever it is. My ***** are not that big

We shall see I guess. Supposedly his summer is the announcement.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

if I just have to buy "a car at MSRP", I can take that.

I need to get another car in about 1-3 years later anyway. I'm cool with it, nothing much to lose

Roidz

Oh sad, but I won't get too upset until we hear the official word.

Juansito

iTrader: (5)

Nah after all the money they spent on the rotary engine they are not just gonna let it die.

monchie

^ Somewhat true. Rotary engines won't go away anytime soon.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

I suspect that there is considerable disagreement within Mazda as to the future of the rotary. At the risk of over-simplifying, Japanese teamwork works well when the next step is clear, but less well when it is not. It's difficult to say "no" without offence in Japanese, so 'no' is communicated by a less enthusiastic 'yes'. Each rumor may be absolutely true from the standpoint of the source, yet still may have nothing to do with what will eventually happen. According to my friends there, the decision-making process is obscure, even to those involved. Add in the EPA, world financial climate, oil prices, the earthquake, etc. and who knows what will happen next week, much less in a couple years?

Grungepup

iTrader: (2)

i don't believe anything these car mags say, i remember when they put out the new "charger" back in 99 that looked like a real slick 2 door muscle car.... and look at what actually came to market, even the "spy" shots of the camero looked way different than what came out.

until mazda makes an official announcement.... we all must agree to disagree


now where is that damn shot girl, i need more spankings

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

not surprised at all.
moving on...

Roidz

How can it be somewhat true? It's either coming back or it ain't.

yiksing

Rotary engine future is pretty much dead. Mazda is always one step behind competition and emmission laws. By the time the rotary engine can be engineered to be treehugger friendly, we will be surrounded by electric cars and flying saucer or six feet under. The only place it will exist is on a race track with rotary powered racecars coz lets face it, the piston wouldnt race the wankel without imposing some stupid rules on RE.

drifter_d

Not doubting Car and Driver, but merely posting this up as I didn't see it in this thread. I'm not really on either side of this argument, but for the sake of sparking more debate and opinion spewing, here's the 19 May 11 article from Motor Trend:

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...ech/index.html

No one better flame me or state REPOST, because I will come to your house, light a bag of dog poop, and ring your doorbell. Oh, yeah. I will....

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

yep, that's one of the reasons why I NEVER believe these "OMG INSIDER INFO"

Next thing I know is that one of these Mag will have new "INSIDER" information saying that they found a way to install a piston into the Engine and it will add 15 mpg instantly with another 200 ft lbs of Torque.

I mean honestly, Mazda knew Rotary engine was a "dream" more than reality after it almost killed their company back in 70s (when the first oil crisis hits). so now Rotary engine is more like their company's image. They're the only company that they can make this "dream" possible (sales is another issue). and a lot of people respect Mazda for that.

who knows what will happen down the road. a lot of things were not possible 20 years ago but its possible now and it just keeps making the engine better and better.

zoom44

dude you need to change your avatar back. I had no idea it was you posting until this last comment.