I guess professional racing drivers are not competitive nor sensitive...
I guess all the motoring journalists around the world know little..
I guess respected Motor Mags are not observant when it comes to comparisons and testing..

2005 NC MX-5 (softy) Car of the Year in Australia and Japan and many other nations.
2003 FE RX-8 (Series 1) Car of the Year in Australia.

As an owner of both I will be the judge ...including the manufacturer... IMO these Mazda models are now very much sorted and well engineered for the money.

A truly great car is not one which is overburdened by an overpowered and in most cases a heavy engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3PzUNQBTZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR1DLkA9r0Q

Oh..but hang on they get paid to says this by Mazda..

 

Are you any of the people mentioned above?

Thanks for negating your own argument, though. Saves me time.

 

You certainly are not...

 

What a drive!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bKOzZqNZ7Y

 

It's not my problem! I bought the 8 because it was fun to drive, different, 4 seat, sports COUPE. if i had wanted a REAL sportscar, as you say, I would've bought that used Corvette i looked at before getting my 8. Sounds to me you have the bigger problem with the 8, stripping it out and all. It seems you can't afford a real sports car.

A sports car is a 2-seater. I have a 4 year old so I need a car that seats 3. If I was wealthy enough to afford 2 cars just for myself one of them would be a 2 seater, but I can't. That's where the sports coupe comes in and as far as I'm concerned the 8 fits the bill. It just needs more power/torque. I handles better than many true sportscars already. If you looked at only sports coupes and had to pick which one came the closest to being a true sportscar the 8 comes closest. It's already light and handles.

Emissions is the rotary's biggest problem going forward. If the emissions laws hadn't changed Mazda wouldn't have any problems releasing the 16X.

 

Uhm... Prancing horses dressed in Rosso Corse count as real sports cars? That's the other sportscar i have in my garage
I bought and stripped the rx8 because Mazda didn't offer a 2 seater. The chassis is great but the weight is high to play at the track. I considered purchasing a 997 gt3 rs recently but given its price hitting a wall with it would be a waste for a comparable chassis with higher hp only

I brought up the argument because, as we say here, the rx8 is neither meat nor fish. Compromises will make everybody only half happy.
There's no point in having a 4 seater with sports car fuel consumption but less performance. You can't get the best of both worlds!

 

Toyota made the 2005 MR-2 Spyder with a curb weight of 2050lbs. That is with a 1.8 VVTI engine and paddle shift transmission- I have one of them to swap a rotary inside-.

If Mazda could make the new Rx-7 this light and even more exotic, with the new 16X pushing 300bhp would be a success!

Then could add an upgraded Furai Special Edition model on a 3-rotor 500HP version-24X- that will blow the doors off those Scuderia prancing horses and Mazda Rx-7 will be champions again like they did in the early 80's.

 

It's like a cow with scales or maybe rather a horse with gills.

I've always considered the RX-8 the great compromise. It's an enigma. It's not sure if it's a sports car or not. I like that and I will buy another, perhaps series 2 at some point.

An RX-7 does not have to have identity issues.

Paul.

 

THATS the reason I like it so much. Because " I dont what the heck it is!"
and in some circumstances--- what I am doing to it.

OD

 

The MR2 was too small to be comfortable in. I'm 6 foot 1. My friend has an MX5 and that's too narrow for me. i can get in it but it's not comfortable. The same could be said of the Porsche Cayman, I sat in one of those at the car show and the seat wouldn't even go back far enough for me and I really like that car. 2050 lbs, that's a joke. It would have to be a toy car. While that does appeal to some people (elise owners), it's not comfortable enough for most. If Mazda made the next 8/9 with the current dimensions/seats weighing 150-200 lbs less then put in the 16x with 300 hp they would have a winner.

 

I am 6' tall and feel your pain with my NB Miata, I even had a MB SL55 and was same problem, but the 05 MR-2 Spyder is way more comfortable with more legroom, so I fit perfectly. I revised the figures and the 2001 is 2050lbs but the 05 is 2,185lbs. Because the PaddleShift 6-Spd manual and LSD diff.

Still is roomy, light and it handles great... Just lacks the power of a rotary, so I am making a kit car out of mine, with a PP Rotary.

A real sports car does not need to be big, just needs to be light, feels tight, runs fast, handles sharp and stop fast. Then add a Furai like sound that is exotically unique, with a beautiful styling and the new Rx will be unmatched at any price. You'll see Porsche owners trading in for a 7 again.

 

The Miata wheelbase is 91.7 that too small, Porsche Cayman is 95.7, MR-S is 96.5 which is same as a F-355 F1 and would be perfect for the new 7.

If it would be a 9, it should be with a Furai style mid-engine all aluminum 3-Rotor 24X, paddle-shift 7-Spd surpassing the Acura NSX, competing with Audi R-8 and worrying minds of Lamborghini, Ferrari and Masserati.

 

I you want to see real fast na and Turbo Rotaries, check GRS-Motorsports.com and will be shocked to see 2-Rotor all-Motor cars doing 9 sec. 1/4mi. Times, and Turbos on the 6sec.

If you can attend the Pan-Americar Nationals this coming weekend(7/15-7/17) at Atco Raceway in New Jersey you can see them in person.

Too bad MAZDA doesn't care much about this events.

 

While this type of car is a wet dream for any rotorhead, Mazda won't produce it, because it won't sell. Sure, people will buy it in the same volume as those cars you listed it against, but that isn't a money maker. They need it to be bought by regular people. And that is their publicly stated goal for their cars, to be good value, fun, and available to the common person. Putting an $80,000+ (which is what it would have to be, minimum) car in the show room as the $13,000 Mazda2 just doesn't make any sense for brand integrity.

Mazda puts their money into handling more than power. The Miata will always be "underpowered" compared to it's competition, and so will any rotary. Because it's funner to drive a "slow" car fast than a fast car slow. And you can't drive a fast car fast (on public roads where 90%+ of Mazdas spend their life). You can take a Miata to it's limits, and still be entirely legal doing it most of the time. You exceed the legal limits in the 8 quite a bit quicker, but still entirely possible to thrash it for fun and not be illegal. Basically impossible to do that for any current muscle car for more than about 4-5 seconds at a time.

 

Ford focus, 15k... Ford gt 120k
Nissan sentra 15k ....nissan gtr 85k
Civic, nsx
Nothing wrong with mazda2, and furai..

 

Nissan 2011 fiscal year operating profit - $6.7 billion.
Ford 2011 fiscal year operating profit - $2.5 billion.
Honda 2011 fiscal year operating profit - $558 million (down from their average $892 million).
Mazda 2011 fiscal year operating profit - $7.7 million.

There is a reason you are not in charge of Mazda.

 

wow never expect nissan is making so much more than honda
never care but its a huge differance

 

The MX5 is tops in its category but the small, affordable 2 seat sports car is a very small category to begin with. The RX8 on the other hand is a 4 seat coupe. That's a larger, more competitive segment.

 

This has always been the problem for Mazda, to convince Ford so they are allowed to build another rotary. If they can convince them that they need to get status as a Real Serious Sports Car Builder and not the whimpy performance compared with Porsche whereas in the early 80's Rx-3 and Rx-7's smoked Porsches and others so bad they had to penalize them with restrictions and even sanctioned to race at all.

Now if it's a matter of a new rotary with less cost and of not take sales away from Ford Mustang,
they could get rid of the back doors of the Rx-8, lighten the car as much as possible, try to flow the exhaust flow an extra HP, a big front spoiler, a retro look to revive it into the New Rx-3 with an optional Rx-3 SP Model (famous in 1977-78) to have the 16X version currently in development, as the car already has a similar resemblance to the 1973 Rx-3.

And for the new Rx-7, then add 5 inches to the wheelbase of the new Miata in development for 2013 -which is announced to be bigger and lighter- with a wide Body Kit, all glass hatch and 1st Gen Rx-7 retro look with the Renesis engine. Then add a GSL-SE Edition with the newly developed 300HP 16X engine.

This formula worked for the Camaro, was an absolute success for the Mustang, Same hit with the Beetle, Mini, and others.

Then get at least one Furai available for purchase as a production exotic with an exorbitant price just for the eccentric and unveil it in strategically located dealers on a customer appreciation events. This will give high recognition to Mazda as a serious sport car, like putting a WOW! on the ZOOM ZOOM!

 

A) Ford doesn't have a controlling stake in Mazda

B) The Furai doesn't exist any more (the only one was destroyed in a fire)

C) Rotary in a Miata chassis is perfect. Don't even need to increase the size of it.

D) Mazda isn't going 'retro' in any look (thankfully, not 'everyone' likes retro looks, and it's generally contrary to aerodynamic drag and safety regulations)




And E) Mazda has status as a "Real Sports Car Builder" as you put it. Haven't you heard of the commercial "There are more Mazdas raced on any given weekend than any other brand."


Go to any track, or organization that participates in racing, and Mazda is a known and talked about name. People discuss their cars like no other brand.

From the context of what you wrote though, I gather you don't classify them as such, because among armchair enthusiasts (that either won't put their money on the cars they talk about, or buy a car because of it's numbers so they can sit next to it pointing at it and saying "look what I have"), no, they aren't known for sports cars. But then, I wouldn't care to be included in any crowd that those people brag about. I'd rather buy cars that are actually raced on tracks in large numbers than have large numbers but raced in their driveways from their couch.

 

The rotary cars don't have the fan base that these cars you suggest do to make your suggestion work.

 

thanks for proving my point

 

Perhaps the Hyundai Supercar will suffice?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11107113...pment---report

 

Uh, whut?

You said:
Since you were comparing the Focus, Sentra and Civic to each other as a base and then offering the corresponding manufacturer's "super-cars" as a high-water mark, you would need to look at the manufacturer's operating profit compared to the base car price as the ratio for the price point of the corresponding super-car. [Of course, this is a bit of a moot point since the NSX came out at a time where, adjusted for inflation and the change in the market, Honda was the top manufacturer and making a relative profit similar to that of Nissan. Conversely, Ford was hemorrhaging money and built the GT anyway. It was a commercial flop and didn't even sell the minimum projected number of units. It was a net loss. If I remember correctly, the American taxpayer didn't have to bail out Ford to the degree that we did GM, but there is a lot of incentive for an American company to make stupid financial decisions.]

If we use $15k as the average price for the Focus, Sentra, Civic and Mazda2 (which would be a bit of a simplification on many levels, but I'll just go with it for your sake) and the relative operating profits as the differential ratio between the base car and the supercar prices, a Mazda Furai would have to have an MSRP of $97.00. That is ninety seven dollars.

I don't know about you, but if I were an auto manufacturer and I was planning a super car (which, BTW, you left out the LFA which sells for $370k - also at a loss - and Toyota had a NOP this fiscal year of $5 billion), I would shoot slightly higher than ninety seven bucks. Even a Tata Nano is $2500.

A $100k super-car from Mazda would cost their entire operating profit just for development.

At least a relatively lateral movement like a rotary-powered Miata wouldn't cost anything in development, but its price point - which would have to be in the sub-$30k range - wouldn't even yield enough profit to offset the warranty claims cost on the failed engines unless they sold at least as many as they sold RX-8s.
I don't know if you follow the Miata sales numbers, but it took them 20 years to sell a million units even though it was the best selling roadster of all time.

 

Press Release

Mazda retakes the Continental Tire ST manufacturers points lead thanks to a great win by Freedom AutoSport at Mazda Raceway.JPG

-- Two Wins, Six Podium Finishes, Highlight Mazda Raceway and Lime Rock Weekend --

July 11, 2011 (Irvine, Calif.)

Mazda has been noting for several years that on any-given weekend, there are more Mazdas road-raced than any other brand. This past weekend both the strength and depth of field was very apparent. On Saturday, Mazda raced at two of the premier racetracks in three different series with four very different cars, resulting in two wins, and a half-dozen podium finishes.

On Saturday morning, Mazda kicked off the weekend with a one-two finish in the GRAND-AM Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge ST class at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. It was the Freedom AutoSport Mazda MX-5 of Andrew Carbonell and Rhett O'Doski taking the win over their teammates Tom Long and Derek Whitis. The win moved Mazda into a six-point lead in the manufacturers' championship battle, with two races remaining.

A few hours later, across the country, at Lime Rock Park, Chris Dyson and Guy Smith drove their Dyson Racing Lola-Mazda MZR-R to their first win of the 2011 season. After three races of the nine-round ALMS season, Dyson and Smith lead the drivers' championship, Dyson leads the team, and Mazda leads the manufacturers' championships.

The afternoon concluded back at Mazda Raceway with the GRAND-AM Rolex Sports Car Series presented by Crown Royal Cask No. 16 race and a pair of Mazda RX-8's on the GT podium. Defending GT series champions Jeff Segal and Emil Assentato drove their SpeedSource FXDD Mazda RX-8 to a close second-place finish, just 2.93 seconds shy of their first win of the season. SpeedSource teammates Sylvain Tremblay and Jonathan Bomarito completed the podium in third. Bomarito led the most race laps.


Continental Tire ST @ Mazda Raceway
1.Mazda
2.Mazda
3.BMW

American LeMans LMP1 @ Lime Rock
1.Mazda
2.Aston Martin
3.Mazda

Grand-Am GT @ Mazda Raceway
1.Porsche
2.Mazda
3.Mazda

Between the three series, Mazda has competed against Acura, Aston Martin, BMW, Chevrolet, Ferrari, Ford, Honda, KIA, Mercedes, Mini, Porsche, and VW.

"Our success as a business and on the track is a result of our total team effort. We can't say enough about all of our teams who raced this weekend. It's always special to win at Mazda Raceway, and thanks to Freedom Autosport it was a one-two finish at our corporate home track while the Dyson boys scored a great win at their team home track," noted John Doonan, Director, Mazda Motorsports.

Also this past weekend:

SCCA Pro Racing Playboy Mazda MX-5 Cup @ Mazda Raceway

Michael Cooper scored his third win of the MX-5 Cup season to extend his points lead over Jason Saini.

Alumni Update:

MAZDASPEED alums performed strongly during the Honda Indy Toronto weekend. Peter Dempsey and Anders Krohn finishing in the top-five in the Firestone Indy Lights race while Marco Andretti finished fourth in the IZOD IndyCar race. All three are Star Mazda graduates.

What's Next for each series:
■Skip Barber Nationals - July 21-23 at Road Atlanta
■Formula D - July 22-23 at Evergreen Speedway
■Grand-Am Continental Tire Challenge - July 22-24 at New Jersey Motorsports Park
■Grand-Am ROLEX Series - July 22-24 at New Jersey Motorsports Park
■ALMS - July 22-24 at Mosport International Raceway
■Star Mazda - July 22-24 at Mosport International Raceway
■USF2000 - August 5-6 at the Mid Ohio Sports Car Course
■World Challenge -- August 5-7 at the Mid Ohio Sports Car Course
■MX-5 Cup - September 2-4 at Brainerd International Raceway

About Mazda & MAZDASPEED

Mazda is the number-one brand for road-racers across North America. Thousands of Mazda powered grassroots racers compete in various classes with the SCCA and NASA highlighted by Spec Miata, the world's largest spec class with over 2,500 cars built. In 2006 Mazda established the MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development Ladder to assist racers in moving up through the ranks. In 2010 this was expanded to include the Mazda Road to Indy. Key to Mazda success is strategic partnerships with the Skip Barber Racing School and Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca.