NO Plan for New Rotary....THE END...maybe.
03-02-2011, 04:53 PM
#251
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Well if you insist it's true, great. BTW I wasn't asking for Wikileaks, more like "good", "slow but steady progress". Is there such a total information blackout in force? Better things to worry about anyway, as unfortunately we all know hard work does not equal good results or even any results at all.
03-02-2011, 05:29 PM
#253
What Paul said exactly . What R&T said is accurate- whether it came straight from mazda or they heard it through the grapevine. Frankly since it was written by Sam Mitani it tells me he was told directly.
I believe I can speak for Paul when I say that we wouldn't consider asking for and divulging information on the interweb that would compromise our friends job.
I believe I can speak for Paul when I say that we wouldn't consider asking for and divulging information on the interweb that would compromise our friends job.
Paul.
03-03-2011, 12:10 AM
#254
03-03-2011, 07:29 AM
#256
Okay, a follow up: There are 45 Samurai RE engineers and some temporary staff working on 16X. I think we can say that part of the article rates between a half truth to an inaccuracy.
Paul.
Paul.
03-03-2011, 07:33 AM
#257
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ ah ha! Again, the difference between "squishy" reporting and honest answers lies in the source of the information and the person doing the talking...and why I come here and press for the truth, not R&T or similar. Thanks.
03-03-2011, 07:34 AM
#258
40th anniversary Edition
Europe's new emissions standards are higher than the USA's but our future proposed standards and California's proposed standards are just as tough. Mazda will only release this new RX9 when the 16X engine can meet all global standards for years going forward.
I hope with the newer posts here, that are from inside Mazda sources, just as my info was from inside friends at Mazda, that NOW the usual nay sayers will take a break from bashing us bearers of real information.
Trust me R & T has its reliable sources. R & T and Mazda go way back with early releases of Mazda product info, followed by R & T getting the first test drives, and R & T writing glowing revues of all of Mazda's rotary cars. Mazda is letting just enough info about the project and the car leak out to keep interest up, and maybe keep folks from buying a rival's car until the RX9 is released.
It works for me, I have bought every other rotary car released since my first RX3, RX4, all three generations of RX7, RX7 Turbo II and RX7 FD (twin Turbo), through to my present RX8 40th Anniversary edition. (I also own a 2008 Mazdaspeed3 GT). I will be there ready with money in hand at the release of the 16X powered RX9. I will be driving and enjoying it, while the nay sayers will still be debating if it is real.
I hope with the newer posts here, that are from inside Mazda sources, just as my info was from inside friends at Mazda, that NOW the usual nay sayers will take a break from bashing us bearers of real information.
Trust me R & T has its reliable sources. R & T and Mazda go way back with early releases of Mazda product info, followed by R & T getting the first test drives, and R & T writing glowing revues of all of Mazda's rotary cars. Mazda is letting just enough info about the project and the car leak out to keep interest up, and maybe keep folks from buying a rival's car until the RX9 is released.
It works for me, I have bought every other rotary car released since my first RX3, RX4, all three generations of RX7, RX7 Turbo II and RX7 FD (twin Turbo), through to my present RX8 40th Anniversary edition. (I also own a 2008 Mazdaspeed3 GT). I will be there ready with money in hand at the release of the 16X powered RX9. I will be driving and enjoying it, while the nay sayers will still be debating if it is real.
03-03-2011, 09:27 AM
#259
that the samurais are 47 and @ Factory call them RONINS 
03-03-2011, 09:58 AM
#260
We have different fuels here and there (ethanol percentages mostly) and polluting substances\fumes as "standards" for the tests. While building a cleaner engine is surely possible, even if hard, i wonder what tricks Mazda will pull from its hat to cover the different anti-pollution regimens and rulesets around the world!
Direct injection will surely come in handy, it offer some elasticity that other injection systems lack.
03-03-2011, 10:49 AM
#261
I also "heard" that ceramic seals will be in the engine.
I do wonder if they are going to make this an E-85 engine---probably not but it would solve some of their "problems".
Yall want a taste of what is to come? Visit pauls "skunkworks project shop" at Mazmart and see his MX5/renesis engine project.
I do wonder if they are going to make this an E-85 engine---probably not but it would solve some of their "problems".
Yall want a taste of what is to come? Visit pauls "skunkworks project shop" at Mazmart and see his MX5/renesis engine project.
03-04-2011, 08:14 AM
#263
40th anniversary Edition
I know it makes for fun and lively discussion here for those to nay say about reports of the next rotary engine and car. I for one have nearly forty years of experience owning, driving, and racing Mazda rotary cars. And over those decades have cultivated many friends among the Mazda folks in California. How many others in this forum have even been around that long as legal drivers ? THIS CAR IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
Mazda execs in California and Hiroshima have been quoted, on the record, as saying time and time again that the Rotary engine is the heart and soul of Mazda. Forget all those total millions of Mazda3s and CX7 and CX9 and Mazda2s and even MX5s sold worldwide. They are great vehicles all , and may have kept Mazda in business. But Mazda Execs. were quoted just last year that their ideal standard-bearer for Mazda has been, and will always be a rotary engine sports car. It is what made Mazda and what makes it unique in the automotive world. From hydrogen powered RX8s now running in Europe to the new 16X engine, Mazda research's goal is to keep the rotary engine a viable powerplant into the future.
Whether it is 30 or 45 or 60 engineers working on the next RX9 doesn't matter. Mazda is a small niche automaker, a tiny fraction of the size of a Toyota or Nissan, check your figures on that. Every Mazda rotary engine advance through the last forty years was made by a small focused group of a handfull of dedicated engineers. That is the way Mazda works best. You all need to have a little faith in Mazda, especially here in a RX8 club forum.
I have had faith in Mazda for nearly forty years, and they have never disappointed me, on the road or on the track. I easily have way over a million miles on the road and the track in Mazda rotary engine cars alone. I look forward to adding to that total with many more miles and smiles in the upcoming RX9.
Mazda execs in California and Hiroshima have been quoted, on the record, as saying time and time again that the Rotary engine is the heart and soul of Mazda. Forget all those total millions of Mazda3s and CX7 and CX9 and Mazda2s and even MX5s sold worldwide. They are great vehicles all , and may have kept Mazda in business. But Mazda Execs. were quoted just last year that their ideal standard-bearer for Mazda has been, and will always be a rotary engine sports car. It is what made Mazda and what makes it unique in the automotive world. From hydrogen powered RX8s now running in Europe to the new 16X engine, Mazda research's goal is to keep the rotary engine a viable powerplant into the future.
Whether it is 30 or 45 or 60 engineers working on the next RX9 doesn't matter. Mazda is a small niche automaker, a tiny fraction of the size of a Toyota or Nissan, check your figures on that. Every Mazda rotary engine advance through the last forty years was made by a small focused group of a handfull of dedicated engineers. That is the way Mazda works best. You all need to have a little faith in Mazda, especially here in a RX8 club forum.
I have had faith in Mazda for nearly forty years, and they have never disappointed me, on the road or on the track. I easily have way over a million miles on the road and the track in Mazda rotary engine cars alone. I look forward to adding to that total with many more miles and smiles in the upcoming RX9.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 03-04-2011 at 10:15 AM.
03-04-2011, 10:20 AM
#264
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
/\ As much as I agree with your comments I am still being very cautious and leaning still on the no for now, and 3 years is a LOOOOONG way off.
Of course Japanese Engineers are working on the 16X, engineering at this level is only done there.
As much as those who think they are in the know, there will be No Rotary if the economic times remain (particularly US) and having said this (almost a contradiction) MMC will not produce ANY RX- if it does not have multi-country appeal, Not just North America.
It has to be marketed in as many countries as the RX-8 had, that includes Europe.
So lets cut out the motherhood statements...
ANY new Rotary has to have HALF of the CO2 output of the current RENESIS.
It has to have at least 30-40% better MPG, not 10 not 20%.
Gas prices are nailing the coffin further.
IMO as I see it it wont happen with a conventional set up..but will happen with a Hybrid..
As I said, forget the motherhood **** and be specific..I just cant see MMC doing it without Hybrid or Hydrogen or ....
Lets face it..all the recent testing of anything Rotary has been Hybrid slash Hydrogen.
Of course Japanese Engineers are working on the 16X, engineering at this level is only done there.
As much as those who think they are in the know, there will be No Rotary if the economic times remain (particularly US) and having said this (almost a contradiction) MMC will not produce ANY RX- if it does not have multi-country appeal, Not just North America.
It has to be marketed in as many countries as the RX-8 had, that includes Europe.
So lets cut out the motherhood statements...
ANY new Rotary has to have HALF of the CO2 output of the current RENESIS.
It has to have at least 30-40% better MPG, not 10 not 20%.
Gas prices are nailing the coffin further.
IMO as I see it it wont happen with a conventional set up..but will happen with a Hybrid..
As I said, forget the motherhood **** and be specific..I just cant see MMC doing it without Hybrid or Hydrogen or ....
Lets face it..all the recent testing of anything Rotary has been Hybrid slash Hydrogen.
03-04-2011, 11:44 AM
#265
40th anniversary Edition
Sorry but you are just dead wrong, I know for a fact from my friends at Mazda that there is extensive testing of a GAS 16X engine. You can choose to not believe the facts if you want, if that makes your arguments seem stronger. The hydrogen rotary engine as tested and run in Europe is exciting, but this rotary engine has low horsepower , and at this point no longterm viability for costly mass production as there isn't the worldwide infrastructure to support hydrogen car refueling, safely and economically yet.
What you don't understand historically, which I do from decades experience with Mazda, is that Mazda has always been willing to manufacturer the RXs ,not as a big moneymaker, which its hasn't been since the first generation RX7. To Mazda they see the RXs as their corporate image maker, the car that gets people to step inside the showroom where they will sell you that more practical MX5 or Mazda3, or CX9,CX7, or Mazda5 or Mazda2. The sales numbers on the RXs have never been high enough to justify the engineering expense budgets spent to create them .
Likewise the money Mazda spends every weekend supporting racers and race series is a ludicrous amount that most companies this small would never justify spending. It is all about the aura and image these efforts gave to the corporate brand. As long as Mazda can survive on the profits of the rest of its line, it will always have a rotary car in development or ready for sale to a small group of enthusiasts .
Mazda is not immune to the world economic trials as is any automotive company. But it has learned to survive scary economic times in the past, when several times it nearly went belly up, and survived the Ford experience, by being smart and making cars with mass appeal like the MX5 and Mazda3,while still being true to its heart with the niche rotary engine.
I see you are from Australia, well you should know that a lot of Mazda rotary car design, patents and development does go on in America in Irvine, California. Next to Hiroshima, that is where the most efforts are made worldwide for new Mazda product design.
As for any future RX9, a hybrid might be considered, but a 300hp RX9 with 20% better gas mileage than a 232HP RX8 still has a chance to find its niche among enthusiasts. Don't expect a 40% increase in gas mileage with any serious horsepower.
Most automotive experts, worldwide, while lauding green efforts with hybrids and hydrogen and all electric cars, they don't see the billions being spent to support a global fueling and support infrastructure anytime soon enough to make these cars the dominant technology as quickly as some would hope. So don't expect Mazda to wait five years to release the next rotary car. Mazda will have its own hybrids out and in the marketplace, they are being tested now. But for now the rotary still works best as a gasoline performance car.
I have no more crystal ball than you do, but I know what I am being told by friends inside Mazda.
What you don't understand historically, which I do from decades experience with Mazda, is that Mazda has always been willing to manufacturer the RXs ,not as a big moneymaker, which its hasn't been since the first generation RX7. To Mazda they see the RXs as their corporate image maker, the car that gets people to step inside the showroom where they will sell you that more practical MX5 or Mazda3, or CX9,CX7, or Mazda5 or Mazda2. The sales numbers on the RXs have never been high enough to justify the engineering expense budgets spent to create them .
Likewise the money Mazda spends every weekend supporting racers and race series is a ludicrous amount that most companies this small would never justify spending. It is all about the aura and image these efforts gave to the corporate brand. As long as Mazda can survive on the profits of the rest of its line, it will always have a rotary car in development or ready for sale to a small group of enthusiasts .
Mazda is not immune to the world economic trials as is any automotive company. But it has learned to survive scary economic times in the past, when several times it nearly went belly up, and survived the Ford experience, by being smart and making cars with mass appeal like the MX5 and Mazda3,while still being true to its heart with the niche rotary engine.
I see you are from Australia, well you should know that a lot of Mazda rotary car design, patents and development does go on in America in Irvine, California. Next to Hiroshima, that is where the most efforts are made worldwide for new Mazda product design.
As for any future RX9, a hybrid might be considered, but a 300hp RX9 with 20% better gas mileage than a 232HP RX8 still has a chance to find its niche among enthusiasts. Don't expect a 40% increase in gas mileage with any serious horsepower.
Most automotive experts, worldwide, while lauding green efforts with hybrids and hydrogen and all electric cars, they don't see the billions being spent to support a global fueling and support infrastructure anytime soon enough to make these cars the dominant technology as quickly as some would hope. So don't expect Mazda to wait five years to release the next rotary car. Mazda will have its own hybrids out and in the marketplace, they are being tested now. But for now the rotary still works best as a gasoline performance car.
I have no more crystal ball than you do, but I know what I am being told by friends inside Mazda.
03-04-2011, 12:27 PM
#267
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ interesting conversation, i.e., motherhood vs. reality... hard to tell which is more weighty in mazda's ongoing operations. All I can say is a company that doesn't change (anything and everything as needed) with the times is a company that's going out of business sooner not later.
But one thing I'll say is the this "mpg" conversation as it releates to sports cars is pretty much BS IMHO. The vast majority of any cars called "sports cars" don't get good mileage, and likely more like the RX-8 than not. The rotary is an easy target for poor mileage claims, because it stands out as unique and people can say..."Oh the rotary engine gets sucky mileage." How often have you heard "Porsches get poor mileage.." "Mustang V8s get poor mileage.", etc. You don't because they are just another IC engine and people KNOW sports cars are not economy cars.
That being said, a 20-40% highway mileage increase may just what is needed, whereas the city mileage is far less important to most people. If they don't get that increase, they may not WANT to sell many rotaries because of what it would do to their fleet mileage average. That's also a likely reason why they didn't try to do much with the current car.
But one thing I'll say is the this "mpg" conversation as it releates to sports cars is pretty much BS IMHO. The vast majority of any cars called "sports cars" don't get good mileage, and likely more like the RX-8 than not. The rotary is an easy target for poor mileage claims, because it stands out as unique and people can say..."Oh the rotary engine gets sucky mileage." How often have you heard "Porsches get poor mileage.." "Mustang V8s get poor mileage.", etc. You don't because they are just another IC engine and people KNOW sports cars are not economy cars.
That being said, a 20-40% highway mileage increase may just what is needed, whereas the city mileage is far less important to most people. If they don't get that increase, they may not WANT to sell many rotaries because of what it would do to their fleet mileage average. That's also a likely reason why they didn't try to do much with the current car.
03-04-2011, 01:18 PM
#268
40th anniversary Edition
Hey all interesting points, well taken. I respect that ASH was a parts man. He has his years involvement with Mazda, I have my years of involvement with Mazda on the street and on the track, half way around the world from each other. BOTH VALID. I will not use any disrespectful or bad words here, that is beneath this discussion.
I personally don't doubt that Mazda has to get their hybrids and such into the market to stay viable. But I also agree with Spin9K that when it comes to sports cars the mileage issue is NOT the only make or break to sales.
What I am hearing from my friends is that they got the mileage increase mainly due to the direct injection, which also allows the engine to be boosted safely , something the Renesis engine was NOT designed to withstand. Ask all those RX8 owners with blown engines after running their aftermarket turbo kits for lots of miles with no internal engine modifications. My early race Turbo RX7 was hand built and heavily modified internally by Racing Beat to take the high boost pressure we ran on the track.
Hey , I would love to see a rotary engine with 40% better fuel economy ,but not at the sacrifice of performance. I could live with the projected 20% increase and 300HP with electric supercharger, factory tried and tested and built to last. Whatever the RX9 will be, I will buy and enjoy it, hybrid, or gas only.
Spin9K your quote: "That being said, a 20-40% highway mileage increase may just what is needed, whereas the city mileage is far less important to most people. If they don't get that increase, they may not WANT to sell many rotaries because of what it would do to their fleet mileage average. That's also a likely reason why they didn't try to do much with the current car."
Mazda will build and sell a rotary car, it is in their blood and heritage, it is who they ARE. But they won't look for volume, they will look to pleasing that small niche who can appreciate the car. Mazda Exec. Shigemi Yamaguchi and other execs. have stated that Mazda will NEVER abandon the rotary engine.
I personally don't doubt that Mazda has to get their hybrids and such into the market to stay viable. But I also agree with Spin9K that when it comes to sports cars the mileage issue is NOT the only make or break to sales.
What I am hearing from my friends is that they got the mileage increase mainly due to the direct injection, which also allows the engine to be boosted safely , something the Renesis engine was NOT designed to withstand. Ask all those RX8 owners with blown engines after running their aftermarket turbo kits for lots of miles with no internal engine modifications. My early race Turbo RX7 was hand built and heavily modified internally by Racing Beat to take the high boost pressure we ran on the track.
Hey , I would love to see a rotary engine with 40% better fuel economy ,but not at the sacrifice of performance. I could live with the projected 20% increase and 300HP with electric supercharger, factory tried and tested and built to last. Whatever the RX9 will be, I will buy and enjoy it, hybrid, or gas only.
Spin9K your quote: "That being said, a 20-40% highway mileage increase may just what is needed, whereas the city mileage is far less important to most people. If they don't get that increase, they may not WANT to sell many rotaries because of what it would do to their fleet mileage average. That's also a likely reason why they didn't try to do much with the current car."
Mazda will build and sell a rotary car, it is in their blood and heritage, it is who they ARE. But they won't look for volume, they will look to pleasing that small niche who can appreciate the car. Mazda Exec. Shigemi Yamaguchi and other execs. have stated that Mazda will NEVER abandon the rotary engine.
03-04-2011, 01:23 PM
#269
Administrator
didnt say i agree with Ash on this, cause i dont 
. just letting you know that your previous statement "What you don't understand historically, which I do from decades experience with Mazda" was uninformed. he has just as much history with them as you do. he's just as passionate about them as you, me , paul, berny and a dozen other guys im not typing.
ill bring this up again. last year there was talk that the MNAO were really pushing for a new RX. The Euro folk were really pushing for a compact cuv. The deal was in order for either to get what they wanted they had to sign off on what the other side wanted.
Now there's the Minagi at Geneva with them saying the production CX-5 will be at Frankfurt. Well that's 1.
just sayin
. just letting you know that your previous statement "What you don't understand historically, which I do from decades experience with Mazda" was uninformed. he has just as much history with them as you do. he's just as passionate about them as you, me , paul, berny and a dozen other guys im not typing.ill bring this up again. last year there was talk that the MNAO were really pushing for a new RX. The Euro folk were really pushing for a compact cuv. The deal was in order for either to get what they wanted they had to sign off on what the other side wanted.
Now there's the Minagi at Geneva with them saying the production CX-5 will be at Frankfurt. Well that's 1.
just sayin
Last edited by zoom44; 03-04-2011 at 01:27 PM.
03-04-2011, 01:45 PM
#270
40th anniversary Edition
Well we will all have to wait to see who was given the better inside info on these developments. I meant no disrespect to Ash, but he chose to use four letter words, which I won't. His call name is correct, "grumpy old man" (sic)
Last edited by gwilliams6; 03-04-2011 at 01:49 PM.
03-04-2011, 06:41 PM
#272
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Oh Geez, So No one else can have a OPINION...listen Nucklehead..lol ..no offense...OK
Mazda have been experimenting with Rotaries for over 40 years and there are a TON of Rotary Motors that never made production..would you like a detailed list...25 Experimental/Prototype, 5 in the past decade that never made it.
Been to their Hiroshima and Hofu plant as their guest...Have you??
Been a Mazda worker manager and owner since 1976-77...and...
With gas at $5.00 a gallon, I think I am dead right....V8's, Rotaries ANYTHING that uses too much dino juice just wont happen..
I hope I am wrong..perhaps YOU may like to tell me HOW Mazda are going to halve Renesis Emissions...it cant be done by the new CAT alone.
As pointed out ANY new engine has to be good (Emissions wise) for the next 10 plus years.
..no offense...OKMazda have been experimenting with Rotaries for over 40 years and there are a TON of Rotary Motors that never made production..would you like a detailed list...25 Experimental/Prototype, 5 in the past decade that never made it.
Been to their Hiroshima and Hofu plant as their guest...Have you??
Been a Mazda worker manager and owner since 1976-77...and...
With gas at $5.00 a gallon, I think I am dead right....V8's, Rotaries ANYTHING that uses too much dino juice just wont happen..
I hope I am wrong..perhaps YOU may like to tell me HOW Mazda are going to halve Renesis Emissions...it cant be done by the new CAT alone.
As pointed out ANY new engine has to be good (Emissions wise) for the next 10 plus years.
Last edited by ASH8; 03-04-2011 at 06:53 PM.
03-04-2011, 06:46 PM
#273
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
BTW...Petrol (Gas) here in Australia is $1.60 a Litre or $6.60 a US gallon.
Heck, Europe must be around $9-10 a gallon.
Heck, Europe must be around $9-10 a gallon.
03-04-2011, 06:49 PM
#274
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
didnt say i agree with Ash on this, cause i dont . just letting you know that your previous statement "What you don't understand historically, which I do from decades experience with Mazda" was uninformed. he has just as much history with them as you do. he's just as passionate about them as you, me , paul, berny and a dozen other guys im not typing.
ill bring this up again. last year there was talk that the MNAO were really pushing for a new RX. The Euro folk were really pushing for a compact cuv. The deal was in order for either to get what they wanted they had to sign off on what the other side wanted.
Now there's the Minagi at Geneva with them saying the production CX-5 will be at Frankfurt. Well that's 1.
just sayin
. just letting you know that your previous statement "What you don't understand historically, which I do from decades experience with Mazda" was uninformed. he has just as much history with them as you do. he's just as passionate about them as you, me , paul, berny and a dozen other guys im not typing.ill bring this up again. last year there was talk that the MNAO were really pushing for a new RX. The Euro folk were really pushing for a compact cuv. The deal was in order for either to get what they wanted they had to sign off on what the other side wanted.
Now there's the Minagi at Geneva with them saying the production CX-5 will be at Frankfurt. Well that's 1.
just sayin
Crikey, I hope it does happen..but, not if it sends Mazda broke..been there done that..
LIKE THE COMMENT .....I wonder who this 'Mazdaeyesonly' jerk is...
http://www.youtube.com/comment_servl...&v=WSHzIX321NM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSHzIX321NM
Last edited by ASH8; 03-05-2011 at 01:57 AM.
03-05-2011, 08:29 AM
#275
40th anniversary Edition
Hey Ash8 I see you have lots of experience. I have been driving and racing Mazdas since 1973 (SCCA). So we are both a pair of old farts. I have been all over the world as an award-winning photojournalist, covering wars and much more, but NO I have never been to Hiroshima or Hofu Mazda plants. I have spent a fair amount of time at Mazda USA in Irvine, California and with the Mazdaspeed guys. I have shot cars and race photography used in newspapers, and magazines including Road & Track and Car and Driver. I have also crewed and been team photographer for Porsche racing teams across America including 24-hr races at Daytona and in France at LeMans, back in the days when my late friend, famed Porsche driver Al Holbert and teammate Derek Bell were top Porsche racers winning LeMans and Daytona and multiple IMSA championships in their 962s. And I helped crew and shot for the early Mazda race teams of Walt Bohren, Jeff Kline, Brad Frisselle and other Mazda RX-7 drivers as they won multiple GTU and GTO crowns in IMSA.
Sadly, Walt just accidentally drowned this past month in the caribbean; Here is an article and video tribute to Walt , a dear friend and great RX7 driver and GTU champion
http://www.skipbarber.com/News/Artic...articleID=2028 (also at bottom of this page is a link to great pdf of 1981 Car and Driver article on Walt's champ RX7 )
http://www.facebook.com/video/video....60883&comments
Ash8 I respect your experience and your opinion, just wanted you to know I have been around the block with Mazdas and other cars for a longtime myself, and still get info from friends I have made inside the company.
Sadly, Walt just accidentally drowned this past month in the caribbean; Here is an article and video tribute to Walt , a dear friend and great RX7 driver and GTU champion
http://www.skipbarber.com/News/Artic...articleID=2028 (also at bottom of this page is a link to great pdf of 1981 Car and Driver article on Walt's champ RX7 )
http://www.facebook.com/video/video....60883&comments
Ash8 I respect your experience and your opinion, just wanted you to know I have been around the block with Mazdas and other cars for a longtime myself, and still get info from friends I have made inside the company.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 03-05-2011 at 08:01 PM.