New RX7 and RX9!
06-08-2010, 07:37 AM
#177
Not to deflate my esteemed colleague, but this:
and this:
Should have been the warning signs that your were having your leg pulled.
There will be no future "MazdaSpeed" MX-5s. At least, not in the sense of past MazdaSpeed versions of production cars, which were farmed out to outside companies for development.
And, as far as diesel rotary goes, you need only read the SAE papers on that to see it can't be done in a fashion that will jive with a normal road car.
In any event, Mazda won't cannibalize their own MX-5 sales with an additional convertible and they are way to heavily invested in the MZR to ditch it.
As they say, "race on Sunday, sell on Monday". You need only look at what Mazda is supplying in the racing world to see what their plans are for the production world.
and this:
Should have been the warning signs that your were having your leg pulled.
There will be no future "MazdaSpeed" MX-5s. At least, not in the sense of past MazdaSpeed versions of production cars, which were farmed out to outside companies for development.
And, as far as diesel rotary goes, you need only read the SAE papers on that to see it can't be done in a fashion that will jive with a normal road car.
In any event, Mazda won't cannibalize their own MX-5 sales with an additional convertible and they are way to heavily invested in the MZR to ditch it.
As they say, "race on Sunday, sell on Monday". You need only look at what Mazda is supplying in the racing world to see what their plans are for the production world.
06-08-2010, 10:00 AM
#181
if they are talking about putting a current series II renesis in an rx7, how much lighter could the rx7 be, and how much faster? I mean the engine still only makes 232 hp. Is a 2600lb rx7 a realistic goal? 'cause at 2800 lb it wouldnt be much faster than our 3000 lb rx8's right? Our current rx8's 0-60 is 6-6.3. A 2800 lb version may hit 5.7 - 5.8 on 0-60. A 2600 lb car would be great and the only way to get a 0-60 time of under 5.5 seconds, just dont know if it could happen. The mx-5 is over 2500 now.
Last edited by bulletproof21; 06-08-2010 at 10:02 AM.
06-08-2010, 10:07 AM
#182
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The 2010 MX-5 is over 2,500, however the 2011 MX-5 is supposed to be dropping weight back to the 2200-2300 range (and a drop in power for a similar power to weight). And a Renesis 2 in that chassis (with different body I hear) would do stellar.
At 2300lbs it would give the same power to weight of 302hp in our 8s.
People get stuck on "I want it to make 300hp!", rather than seeing the opposite of the same acceleration performance by dropping ~700 pounds instead, plus the increased braking and handling performance, as well as reduced tire wear, brake wear, improved mileage, etc...
If they do this, I don't care about the 16x. I'm buying it. Saves me the cost and trouble of trying to do a Miata Renesis swap myself.
I wouldn't buy a first model year 16x. I would be on the pre-order list for a Renesis2 in a MX-5 chassis.
At 2300lbs it would give the same power to weight of 302hp in our 8s.
People get stuck on "I want it to make 300hp!", rather than seeing the opposite of the same acceleration performance by dropping ~700 pounds instead, plus the increased braking and handling performance, as well as reduced tire wear, brake wear, improved mileage, etc...
If they do this, I don't care about the 16x. I'm buying it. Saves me the cost and trouble of trying to do a Miata Renesis swap myself.
I wouldn't buy a first model year 16x. I would be on the pre-order list for a Renesis2 in a MX-5 chassis.
Last edited by RIWWP; 06-08-2010 at 10:15 AM.
06-08-2010, 01:53 PM
#183
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Maza has been testing versions of the 16x with both "petrol" and diesel with some reports suggesting that they have toyed with a dual fuel set up able to run either. Im assuming spark ignited with some kind of variable pressure from TC.
ive heard this through several "unofficial" channels as well as reports from websites like autospies and the magazine autocar. presumably all of these stem form the same original source- probably the same source E's confidant heard it from in a version of whisper down the lane.
whether that translates into a new production car or not is still up in the air from everything i can gather. projects are moving forward but no decisions. From past history it seems to me that we have the design centers pushing their version forward in an attempt to be the winner but the winner hasnt been chosen yet.
What E's confidant may have seen/been told is clearly true "from a certain point of view". correct but not complete. I believe there are 2 models being considered/tried/tested/ shown about to a few insiders/drivers/clinics for reactions/input with various drive train configurations but whether they both get built or one is chosen over the other is still well up in the stratosphere.
"reluctantly bold"
06-11-2010, 08:04 PM
#193
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http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...-mazda-rx7.htm
"Sources say the 2012 Mazda RX-7 will be another Japan-sourced two-door coupe, but based on Mazda's latest MX-5 roadster platform. However, that rear-wheel-drive architecture will be scaled up to near RX-8 size, which could mean a tiny back seat instead of a strictly two-passenger cockpit. Styling is said to be drawn from the 2006 Kabura concept, so look for traditional long-hood/short-deck proportions, an arched roof, prominent cycle-style front fenders, an aggressive nose, and big wheels pushed right out to the corners.
Updated by Don Sikora II 01.07.2010 "
"Sources say the 2012 Mazda RX-7 will be another Japan-sourced two-door coupe, but based on Mazda's latest MX-5 roadster platform. However, that rear-wheel-drive architecture will be scaled up to near RX-8 size, which could mean a tiny back seat instead of a strictly two-passenger cockpit. Styling is said to be drawn from the 2006 Kabura concept, so look for traditional long-hood/short-deck proportions, an arched roof, prominent cycle-style front fenders, an aggressive nose, and big wheels pushed right out to the corners.
Updated by Don Sikora II 01.07.2010 "
06-11-2010, 08:11 PM
#194
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"Speaking with TMR today, Mazda Australia's Steve McIver said that, despite reports to the contrary, there has been no decision to cancel the current-generation RX-8.*
*
"There's been no decision on discontinuing the current RX-8. Production continues, and Mazda is always working to improve its rotary technology," Mr McIver said."
Read more: Mazda RX-8 Production Cancelled, New Model Next Year: Report | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications http://www.themotorreport.com.au/501...#ixzz0qb4FC6VV
*
"There's been no decision on discontinuing the current RX-8. Production continues, and Mazda is always working to improve its rotary technology," Mr McIver said."
Read more: Mazda RX-8 Production Cancelled, New Model Next Year: Report | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications http://www.themotorreport.com.au/501...#ixzz0qb4FC6VV
06-11-2010, 09:19 PM
#195
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Anyone know the power to weight ratio of the current MX-5 vs the current RX-8? I've never driven an MX-5 so I don't have any idea if it would feel as fast as the 8. I ask because based on previous discussion here I'm thinking about what good numbers would be for the next rotary car if it were to come in around 2500-2600 lbs and include the 16x...with considerably more hp then the current renesis. I think the gold standard to shoot for would be something like the Lotus Exige 260. 257hp in a 2000lb car. 0-60 in 4.1 (granted with a lot of expensive carbon fiber) but if the next rotary car could be in the 2500-2600 range with 275hp the thing would be a beast.
06-12-2010, 08:34 AM
#196
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Using 2010 numbers from MazdaUSA.com.
MX-5:
Power: 167hp
Weight: 2,480lbs (MT Sport, T & GT add 31lbs)
Each HP is pulling 14.85lbs
RX-8:
Power: 232hp (or 228, 235, 238, 240, whatever your preference)
Weight: 3,064lbs (MT)
Each HP is pulling 13.20lbs
Even ignoring the weight reduction the MX-5 will be undergoing for the new revision, these are theoretical...
RX-5:
Power: 232hp
Weight 2,480lbs (assuming no weight gained or lost in the swap)
Each HP is pulling 10.68lbs
FI RX-8: (for comparison)
Power: 300hp (taking the 'magic' mark that makes the 8 so incredible)
Weight: 3,064lbs
Each HP is pulling 10.21lbs
16X RX-8:
Power 285hp (est)
Each HP pulling 10.21lbs means a weight of 2,909lbs
A weight of 2,500lbs = each HP pulling 8.77lbs
The lotus you mentioned is 7.78lb per HP
Though I still maintain that the numbers people need to just get out and drive whatever comes along. Mazda has proven time and again that numbers do not make a car fun.
MX-5:
Power: 167hp
Weight: 2,480lbs (MT Sport, T & GT add 31lbs)
Each HP is pulling 14.85lbs
RX-8:
Power: 232hp (or 228, 235, 238, 240, whatever your preference)
Weight: 3,064lbs (MT)
Each HP is pulling 13.20lbs
Even ignoring the weight reduction the MX-5 will be undergoing for the new revision, these are theoretical...
RX-5:
Power: 232hp
Weight 2,480lbs (assuming no weight gained or lost in the swap)
Each HP is pulling 10.68lbs
FI RX-8: (for comparison)
Power: 300hp (taking the 'magic' mark that makes the 8 so incredible)
Weight: 3,064lbs
Each HP is pulling 10.21lbs
16X RX-8:
Power 285hp (est)
Each HP pulling 10.21lbs means a weight of 2,909lbs
A weight of 2,500lbs = each HP pulling 8.77lbs
The lotus you mentioned is 7.78lb per HP
Though I still maintain that the numbers people need to just get out and drive whatever comes along. Mazda has proven time and again that numbers do not make a car fun.
06-12-2010, 09:53 AM
#197
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06-12-2010, 10:11 AM
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It will be interesting to see what Mazda presents for 2012.
Tier IV diesel requirements are extremely strict in dealing with NOx emissions and several of the big boys like MTU and Cummins are really struggling with this. By the time they get done adding all the gizmos and maintenance the life cost of these engines just won't compete with a spark ignited CNG powered version.
Just to meet Tier II requirements brought pumps and injectors running 25,000 PSI injection pressures and a double injection pulse per firing stroke. Its quite a nightmare to engineering for Tier IV.
The rotary has a huge advantage with NOx given the much higher ratio of surface area to quench and manage combustion properties that produce NOx. Even with that benefit the option of a dual fuel diesel-gasoline is very highly unlikely.
Mazda USA has purchased several CNG conversion systems (no CNG tanks) from BAF but there were no details I could get available beyond that. Kind of suggests they may be experimenting with CNG but who knows?
Mine should last just fine a couple more years so I'll just wait and watch what happens.
Tier IV diesel requirements are extremely strict in dealing with NOx emissions and several of the big boys like MTU and Cummins are really struggling with this. By the time they get done adding all the gizmos and maintenance the life cost of these engines just won't compete with a spark ignited CNG powered version.
Just to meet Tier II requirements brought pumps and injectors running 25,000 PSI injection pressures and a double injection pulse per firing stroke. Its quite a nightmare to engineering for Tier IV.
The rotary has a huge advantage with NOx given the much higher ratio of surface area to quench and manage combustion properties that produce NOx. Even with that benefit the option of a dual fuel diesel-gasoline is very highly unlikely.
Mazda USA has purchased several CNG conversion systems (no CNG tanks) from BAF but there were no details I could get available beyond that. Kind of suggests they may be experimenting with CNG but who knows?
Mine should last just fine a couple more years so I'll just wait and watch what happens.
06-13-2010, 08:00 AM
#199
Using 2010 numbers from MazdaUSA.com.
RX-5:
Power: 232hp
Weight 2,480lbs (assuming no weight gained or lost in the swap)
Each HP is pulling 10.68lbs
FI RX-8: (for comparison)
Power: 300hp (taking the 'magic' mark that makes the 8 so incredible)
Weight: 3,064lbs
Each HP is pulling 10.21lbs
16X RX-8:
Power 285hp (est)
Each HP pulling 10.21lbs means a weight of 2,909lbs
A weight of 2,500lbs = each HP pulling 8.77lbs
Though I still maintain that the numbers people need to just get out and drive whatever comes along. Mazda has proven time and again that numbers do not make a car fun.
RX-5:
Power: 232hp
Weight 2,480lbs (assuming no weight gained or lost in the swap)
Each HP is pulling 10.68lbs
FI RX-8: (for comparison)
Power: 300hp (taking the 'magic' mark that makes the 8 so incredible)
Weight: 3,064lbs
Each HP is pulling 10.21lbs
16X RX-8:
Power 285hp (est)
Each HP pulling 10.21lbs means a weight of 2,909lbs
A weight of 2,500lbs = each HP pulling 8.77lbs
Though I still maintain that the numbers people need to just get out and drive whatever comes along. Mazda has proven time and again that numbers do not make a car fun.
While I agree that numbers aren't everything, in terms of sales, they mean a lot. When talking to car buddies, it's a lot easier to get oohs and aahs from a 500 hp CTS-V than to by saying "my RX-8 handles really well." The other problem is that buyers confronted with a large number of choices will look more for reasons *not* to buy something than for reasons *to* buy it. Realtors know this well as evidenced by the numerous companies who come in and prep houses for sale, usually in rather minor ways. A pink bedroom in an otherwise wonderful house will result in a no-sale.
The other number that Mazda *must* fix in order to continue with rotaries is the gas milage. I suspect 22 mpg kills more sales than 232 hp. I'm hoping that new cat technology will allow at least 25 mpg (10 ltr/100km) and preferably 27-29.
