GracefulShanks

Two rotor makes sense when considering efficiency, weight, complexity, etc but who in their right mind would pay $80k for a two rotor??? There has to be a reason why people would elect to buy this car over a Cayman, ZR1, GT4, GTR, etc and I just see what that could be if it's going to be a two rotor.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have another 2 rotor iteration but never at $80k. Even if it's at $40-50k it better have a turbo and plenty of creature comforts that you see in today's sports car market.

Are-Ex-Eight

iTrader: (1)

I could be wrong but aren't fuel economy requirements based on the portfolio of the manufacture and the percentage of each vehicle sale? For example, you could sell a 1 mpg car if you offset it with enough 100 mpg cars to meet the minimum average requirements.

As for emissions, anything is possible with downstream scrubbing equipment at the tailpipe. The problem would be doing this without sacrificing too much performance or incurring too much cost.

Of course, none of this matters for two more probable reasons:

1. It will not be more than 2 rotors.
2. If, and I mean IF it were a 3+ rotor beast cranking gobs of HP it would likely drive the cost to the GT-R territory or higher. This would mean it were meant to be a halo car in a very limited production run, so limited that they may be able to negotiate an emissions variance due to the low production volumes.

Are-Ex-Eight

iTrader: (1)

I think it's possible we could see some engine variants with quite different price points. There could be a base NA engine and some sort of hybrid technology top tier model.

I think a rotary RWD with two electric motors driving the front wheels for a combined 450+ hp would be quite interesting. This helps to solve the fuel economy and emissions issue by allowing a smaller NA rotary to power the rear wheels, basically a 16x.

Think BMW i8.

fmzambon

That's why Mazda needs to do a 4 rotor

Then it would be possible to shut off two rotors and keep the engine balanced. With independent throttle bodies it's possible to minimize the pumping losses for the non-firing rotors by fully opening their throttle bodies (not as good as the piston engines' trick of keeping all valves closed, but still...). And thermal issues can be dealt with most likely, perhaps with some creative cooling circuit arrangement or by alternating which rotors are firing and which are not every few seconds.

Shutting off individual faces has a few major drawbacks: you'd be dumping a lot of fresh air in the exhaust mixed with exaust gases, which will basically prevent the catalytic converter from working (or at least it will only work to oxidise CO and HC, as a 2-way converter. It won't do anything for NOx, which is much harder to deal with in the first place. Not to mention that the excess air may overcool the cat, further lowering its efficiency). Plus you'd be throttling the non-firing faces as well, so you'd still incur heavy pumping losses.

When shutting off complete rotors, these problems may be avoided by having separate catalytic converters for each group of rotors, thus never mixing the air coming out of the non-firing rotors with the gases coming out of the ones that are firing. And opening the throttles of the non firing rotors certainly reduces pumping losses.

Or perhaps Mazda will have perfected HCCI to the point where all of this doesn't matter anymore

Bladecutter

I just hope it comes in blue, with a manual transmission.
I don't care if it has 4 turbos, 8 rotors, and makes 1500 hp.
As long as it can fit my 6'1" frame in comfort (something the MX-5 can't, but my Cayman does perfectly) in both front seats, and I can enjoy a fantastic handling car with a Mazda logo on it, I will be very happy.

I just want Mazda to get back in the business of making an actual sports car with enough power to chase down base Porsches.

BC.

fmzambon

I do

New Yorker

Yikes. If you love sports cars, bummer about your height. Sorry, dude!

zoom44

that's actually what i expect to see

gwilliams6

My pm to you NotAPreppie, was after you wrote numerous rants about how there never would or could ever be another rotary car.

Like I said, in the end we will see who got it right. I am betting on Mazda with their RX7/RXVision, and a belief in their rotary engineering prowess. They haven't let this enthusiast down in over 44 years of ownership of street and track rotaries. lol

Bladecutter

Oh don't worry about it.
It's my wife's way of getting back at me because I can ride just about every high powered sport bike, while she can't even get a foot down on my 848.

Being 5'2" makes sports cars so easy for her to mock me with in retaliation.
She really loved the Fiat 124 we test drove a few weeks back.

Have I mentioned how great my wife is?

BC.

gwilliams6

I am 6 ft 4in and have happily squeezed myself into sports cars for decades. The MX5 is not comfortable for me, but the RXs have been ok ( My FD was the tightest fit of my seven RXs) Oh the sacrifices we make for our pleasures ! Cheers!

NotAPreppie

Go ahead and re-read my posts in the first two pages of this thread.

Now, compare them to your PM.

I make predictions and make it clear that my words are just opinions and that I could be wrong. My predictions are backed up by logic, facts and reasonable inferences (Hint: you don't necessarily have to agree with them to accept that they are reasonable). At no point have I tried to pass off my opinion that a non-hybrid rotary is very unlikely as anything other than the speculations of a pedantic nerd on the Internet.

Your posts have almost all been passing your opinions off as hard facts backed up by little more than "I've owned rotaries my entire life and that's why I'm an authority and you should believe me." You rarely support your assertions and I don't believe many of them are supportable with currently available evidence.

Clearly, the evidence could change and I will re-evaluate my positions on anything in light of new evidence. Can you say the same?

I'd be concerned about cluttering up this thread with our ongoing dispute but this thread has been little more than a pleasant distraction from reality for a while now. There hasn't been any new, meaningful evidence for a long time.

gwilliams6

NotAPreppie you have posted many times in various threads why you are sure there could and would never be another rotary. Lets just wait and see if your predictions are right. I believe in Mazda and its engineers, more than I believe in your arguments and reasoning.

NotAPreppie

Wow. I honestly did not see this coming.

acroy

Amen. 6'3" here, crammed in an RX8. It is too small for me....
Yesterday one of my guys bought a cherry 2013 Miata Club folding hard top. I can fit in it... with the top down... Wind blast right to the face! Hoot of a car.

I sure hope they get the RX Vision right. The competition keeps getting better. The new Boxster S with PDK costs $75k and runs an incredible 3.6sec 0-60 and 11.9 quarter mile... I'm sure the Cayman will be similar. The manual is cheaper/bit slower.
2017 Porsche 718 Boxster S PDK Automatic Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Goes to show what the Vision has to compete with! And the 718 is available now, while the Vision is still vaporware.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah and imagine what would be around by the time Mazda ever decided to compete (which it won't).

archon

Here's an open question. I don't know my transmission tech very well; is it likely that Mazda will choose an all-new or new (to Mazda) transmission, or does something with appropriate capabilities exist in-house already? The core of the series 1 8's trans is common with the brz/frs twins, and the series 2 seems to be going strong, but we're looking at the potential for more power in the new RX.

What might the future look like there?

zoom44

transaxle

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Mazda Engineers Dedicated to Rotary Development - Motor Trend

boricua13

Thanks for sharing 9k, elusive I believe is an understatement, I think they are looking for a miracle that 1. will cost an arm and a leg, or 2. will be almost impossible to replicate in high/production quantities, going back to 1. will cost an arm and a leg.

77mjd

Keep in mind that article is already a year old.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It figures, I guess even Motortrend is a joke now and just regurgitates old articles. I took the bait.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

That just makes it worse: Still no breakthrough.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Good point.

sonicsdaman

iTrader: (3)

https://jalopnik.com/mazda-says-its-...t-p-1788321872