Mazda RX-VISION Concepts
11-02-2016, 08:08 PM
#1176
The problem as I see it in the US market, is they are trying to move the brand up market, but they have powertrains that don't match the car anymore, and arent compatible with the US market.
Practical example, the Mazda 6 should be sold with AWD and the 2.5T engine. A 30K plus car with a n/a 4 cylinder and FWD just doesn't make any sense. The next gen version really needs to be.
The CX-9 needs a boosted 6 cylinder, not a 4.
CX-5 needs a 6 cylinder or a turbo 4.
I suppose when the next gen cx-5 gets unveiled in a few months, we'll see if they are listening.
They are hitting it out of the park in every other area. Looks great, drives well, quality is awesome, just... underpowered.
Practical example, the Mazda 6 should be sold with AWD and the 2.5T engine. A 30K plus car with a n/a 4 cylinder and FWD just doesn't make any sense. The next gen version really needs to be.
The CX-9 needs a boosted 6 cylinder, not a 4.
CX-5 needs a 6 cylinder or a turbo 4.
I suppose when the next gen cx-5 gets unveiled in a few months, we'll see if they are listening.
They are hitting it out of the park in every other area. Looks great, drives well, quality is awesome, just... underpowered.
Last edited by hornbm; 11-02-2016 at 08:12 PM.
11-02-2016, 09:19 PM
#1177
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
/\ Don't disagree with you there.. 
I will keep saying this until I am blue in the face....NOT to have ANY 6 cylinder engine in their range is just DUMB, no other word, it is brand and marketing suicide.
Yes the 2.5T 4 cylinder is a fantastic engine, but in the end it is still a 4 cylinder.
The perception is that it is a 4 cylinder BUZZ BOX.
Mazda Japan has the CAD and CND Machines which could easily engineer and make a 6 cylinder Skyactiv Engine, my guess is a total cost of around $10 million USD to tool and then homologate and certify. Mazda would make that initial cost back in 12 months.
6 Cylinder Skyactiv Engines would sell extremely well in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, parts of South America, Mexico, Russia, and China as it will be a superb quiet and fuel efficient engine. Would easily install in Mazda 6, CX-9.
I seriously doubt the competence of Management in MMC Japan, what is wrong with their board?
Just make them and you WILL sell thousands....DO IT!...
I will keep saying this until I am blue in the face....NOT to have ANY 6 cylinder engine in their range is just DUMB, no other word, it is brand and marketing suicide.
Yes the 2.5T 4 cylinder is a fantastic engine, but in the end it is still a 4 cylinder.
The perception is that it is a 4 cylinder BUZZ BOX.
Mazda Japan has the CAD and CND Machines which could easily engineer and make a 6 cylinder Skyactiv Engine, my guess is a total cost of around $10 million USD to tool and then homologate and certify. Mazda would make that initial cost back in 12 months.
6 Cylinder Skyactiv Engines would sell extremely well in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, parts of South America, Mexico, Russia, and China as it will be a superb quiet and fuel efficient engine. Would easily install in Mazda 6, CX-9.
I seriously doubt the competence of Management in MMC Japan, what is wrong with their board?
Just make them and you WILL sell thousands....DO IT!...
11-02-2016, 09:54 PM
#1179
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Yep, and you can not go upmarket as hornbm says with only 4 cylinder engines.
11-03-2016, 04:14 AM
#1180
40th anniversary Edition
9krpmrx8, don't try to weasel out here. I stand up before this entire forum and will take your bet that there will never be another Mazda rotary sport car ever. I will take that bet with you for $1000 .
Mazda continues to say they want to move the company upscale and get folks to pay more for their cars, like other Japanese manufacturer have done. No separate luxury division like Lexus or Infinty, but some upscale cars to tap into those higher-paying car buyers. Mazda's signature luxury model of the new CX-9 is one step in that direction. And surely part of that upscale movement was the introduction of the RX7/RXVision concept and its patented new skyactiv-rotary engine concept. Mazda will make good on its corporate plans in spite of any nay-sayers like you 9krpmrx8. Mazda is now doing well enough worldwide to fulfill its vision.
Mazda has said they wish to race rotaries again, and that requires a real car exist, for most racing series. Mazda will follow its own vision and not be daunted by nay-sayers like you 9krpmrx8. There is a select market out there for this car and Mazda will build it for those folks, not for you.
Mazda continues to say they want to move the company upscale and get folks to pay more for their cars, like other Japanese manufacturer have done. No separate luxury division like Lexus or Infinty, but some upscale cars to tap into those higher-paying car buyers. Mazda's signature luxury model of the new CX-9 is one step in that direction. And surely part of that upscale movement was the introduction of the RX7/RXVision concept and its patented new skyactiv-rotary engine concept. Mazda will make good on its corporate plans in spite of any nay-sayers like you 9krpmrx8. Mazda is now doing well enough worldwide to fulfill its vision.
Mazda has said they wish to race rotaries again, and that requires a real car exist, for most racing series. Mazda will follow its own vision and not be daunted by nay-sayers like you 9krpmrx8. There is a select market out there for this car and Mazda will build it for those folks, not for you.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 11-03-2016 at 04:44 AM.
11-03-2016, 06:10 AM
#1181
11-03-2016, 06:17 AM
#1182
1% evil, 99% hot gas.
iTrader: (21)
If you want to make pronouncements about taking the bet in this forum, then take the bet, or be quiet. !!!!!
Shut up or put up, Mr. "Journalist".
11-03-2016, 07:31 AM
#1183
The Blue Blur
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11-03-2016, 09:02 AM
#1185
Administrator
quit trying to get the other guy to drop out because each of you keeps putting the dollar amount higher. that's a just as much a tactic to get YOU out of the bet as get the other guy.
take your bets. take them for $1 and move on. show you really believe and accept $1 bets.
take your bets. take them for $1 and move on. show you really believe and accept $1 bets.
11-03-2016, 03:52 PM
#1187
1% evil, 99% hot gas.
iTrader: (21)
If he truly did believe, it would be easy money for him. But he doesn't.
Wouldn't bother me to lose as I'd have a new rotary Mazda to buy.
11-03-2016, 06:02 PM
#1189
You gonna eat that?
iTrader: (1)
By 2030 you won't be allowed to drive in most major cities and on many highways.
Only automated vehicles will be permitted on highways and only ride-sharing vehicles will be allowed in cities.
Internal combustion engines will be treated like cigarettes are today.
Anybody using them will be a pariah. The price of gasoline will be 80% taxes.
Only automated vehicles will be permitted on highways and only ride-sharing vehicles will be allowed in cities.
Internal combustion engines will be treated like cigarettes are today.
Anybody using them will be a pariah. The price of gasoline will be 80% taxes.
Well, I'd be 70 then, if I'm even alive, and I probably couldn't even get in and out of the damn thing, so it's no biggie.
11-03-2016, 07:17 PM
#1191
11-03-2016, 09:16 PM
#1192
All this talk/type whatever you wanna call it is speculation, until Mazda shows a working/running new rotary engine, all said here is crap.
Until I see a real announcement of a running/working/meeting specs rotary from Mazda, I call all the "news" bull ****. Believe me, I would love a new rotary more than most people in this forum, now that I can actually afford one being born and raised around them, but the cards dealt are against us, way too many hurdles to get thru to make this a reality.
This is the way I see it;
1. Increase displacement (1.6 vs 1.3) to increase HP - problem, rotaries linear scale does not equal pistons.
2. Decrease fuel consumption to meet cafe standards - all I can say is boom, less fuel in a rotary will mean detonation without proper additives/injection/correction to cooling
3. Hybrid rotary - might work, but not a real rotary, the engine will be working as a APU and not the actual engine
4. Boost - SC or TC, either way, the heat or extreme stress will lower the engine life.
5. 20B - could work if they can make it affordable, a $10K new engine in new car is suicide.
6. If you can't beat a Cayman in price/power/handling, don't try that price range. Porsche audience will not buy a Mazda "whatever" unless it can really wow them, and I mean by a lot, is like comparing an R8 to a GTR, 60K difference. If you have "Audi" money, why even look at the GTR.
/end rant
Until I see a real announcement of a running/working/meeting specs rotary from Mazda, I call all the "news" bull ****. Believe me, I would love a new rotary more than most people in this forum, now that I can actually afford one being born and raised around them, but the cards dealt are against us, way too many hurdles to get thru to make this a reality.
This is the way I see it;
1. Increase displacement (1.6 vs 1.3) to increase HP - problem, rotaries linear scale does not equal pistons.
2. Decrease fuel consumption to meet cafe standards - all I can say is boom, less fuel in a rotary will mean detonation without proper additives/injection/correction to cooling
3. Hybrid rotary - might work, but not a real rotary, the engine will be working as a APU and not the actual engine
4. Boost - SC or TC, either way, the heat or extreme stress will lower the engine life.
5. 20B - could work if they can make it affordable, a $10K new engine in new car is suicide.
6. If you can't beat a Cayman in price/power/handling, don't try that price range. Porsche audience will not buy a Mazda "whatever" unless it can really wow them, and I mean by a lot, is like comparing an R8 to a GTR, 60K difference. If you have "Audi" money, why even look at the GTR.
/end rant
11-05-2016, 10:53 AM
#1193
In regards to item number 5.
I don't see why a 3 rotor setup has to be any more than 50% of the cost of a 2 rotor setup.
Tooling, R&D, material cost, assembly time. No reason it has to be more than 50%. Honestly should be a bit less than 50% increased cost.
One thing that was really eye opening to me. A new engine for my m3 was more than $20 grand. 20 freaking grand.
4 grand for a new renesis now feels like nothing to me. 6 grand for a new 3 rotor block? Easy. Go look at other car makes and see their engine prices. A 3 rotor engine does not have to significantly increase the cost of the car, especially for the price point Mazda appears to be shooting for.
I don't see why a 3 rotor setup has to be any more than 50% of the cost of a 2 rotor setup.
Tooling, R&D, material cost, assembly time. No reason it has to be more than 50%. Honestly should be a bit less than 50% increased cost.
One thing that was really eye opening to me. A new engine for my m3 was more than $20 grand. 20 freaking grand.
4 grand for a new renesis now feels like nothing to me. 6 grand for a new 3 rotor block? Easy. Go look at other car makes and see their engine prices. A 3 rotor engine does not have to significantly increase the cost of the car, especially for the price point Mazda appears to be shooting for.
11-07-2016, 06:45 AM
#1194
^mazda doesn't have the rep to charge nearly as much as BMW does. If they succeed in taking the brand upscale then maybe they can. As of now, it just won't happen.
11-07-2016, 01:48 PM
#1197
Registered
11-07-2016, 01:58 PM
#1198
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yeah I have been really surprised at how cheap things have been. It's pretty nuts when you can spend under $400.00 and gain 80HP on a basically stock car just from an app and a off the shelf tune. Meanwhile, I spent $10,000.00 to add around 110HP to my 8. But I still love her
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 11-07-2016 at 02:00 PM.
11-07-2016, 02:56 PM
#1199
What am I doing here?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 2017 Miata RF Launch Edition
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Yeah I have been really surprised at how cheap things have been. It's pretty nuts when you can spend under $400.00 and gain 80HP on a basically stock car just from an app and a off the shelf tune. Meanwhile, I spent $10,000.00 to add around 110HP to my 8. But I still love her
You know, for $10k, you're most of the way to an LS swap...
Jason Saini brought a LSX-swapped S2 RX-8 with to a local autocross a few weeks ago and it was amazing both in performance and execution. It convinced me to seriously look into a V8 swap for my S1 after the current motor buys the farm.
Maybe it's my mild aspie tendency, but I don't understand the romanticized relationship that Mazda have with the rotary. From an economic standpoint, it makes far more sense to do a modular turbo piston architecture. Tuning for different performance levels without a major architectural change is just so easy.
Last edited by NotAPreppie; 11-07-2016 at 03:07 PM.
11-07-2016, 04:25 PM
#1200
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
That's the joy of factory turbocharging... Just crank up the boost and keep adding fuel. I did the same thing with my old '99 Passat with the 1.8T engine... A $400 tune bumped the stock 150hp/150tq up to 200hp/240tq. Audi made very few changes between the 180hp and 225hp 1.8T engines used in the TT.
You know, for $10k, you're most of the way to an LS swap...
Jason Saini brought a LSX-swapped S2 RX-8 with to a local autocross a few weeks ago and it was amazing both in performance and execution. It convinced me to seriously look into a V8 swap for my S1 after the current motor buys the farm.
Maybe it's my mild aspie tendency, but I don't understand the romanticized relationship that Mazda have with the rotary. From an economic standpoint, it makes far more sense to do a modular turbo piston architecture. Tuning for different performance levels without a major architectural change is just so easy.
You know, for $10k, you're most of the way to an LS swap...
Jason Saini brought a LSX-swapped S2 RX-8 with to a local autocross a few weeks ago and it was amazing both in performance and execution. It convinced me to seriously look into a V8 swap for my S1 after the current motor buys the farm.
Maybe it's my mild aspie tendency, but I don't understand the romanticized relationship that Mazda have with the rotary. From an economic standpoint, it makes far more sense to do a modular turbo piston architecture. Tuning for different performance levels without a major architectural change is just so easy.
Ahhhhh, so he bought the R3 Tougefactory R3, man that thing was a steal at 30k, I wonder what he got it for.
