wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Same place I do: Garage wall.

It's... Captain Obvious!

Setflyn41

I'm always here if you need me

fmzambon

Yet another article from motoring: Mazda rotary coupe not before 2020 - motoring.com.au

The only actual named quotes in that article are these:

How they got from these quotes to the "not before 2020" title is beyond me...

RX8-User

The anticipation

NotAPreppie

Man, those quotes are almost... wistful. They sound like me growing up, staring at the Lamborghini Countach poster hanging on my wall. Or Wayne Campbell drooling over the '64 Fender Stratocaster in Wayne's World.

"It will be mine. Oh, yes — It will be mine."

gwilliams6

I also used to lust after a Lamborghini Countach until my racer friend Mario Andretti invited me for a spin in his at his family's campground turned vacation retreat in the Poconos, many years ago. . I could not fit in the driver's seat, too tight and not enough legroom for my 6 ft. 4in 230lb frame. I was there on assignment for the Philadelphia Inquirer doing one of many stories I did on the Andrettis over the years. I used to barely fit in my FD RX7. Most sports cars now have figured out how to have more driver room. I am sure if Mazda builds the RX Vision, I will fit, if I can afford it !

zoom44

how many years ago? 90s? I delivered a big set of teak patio/outdoor/dining furniture to Mario back then when i used to work for Waterloo Gardens. You might have sat in it

NotAPreppie

Uh-oh... I think the skeptics are starting to wear him down.

fmzambon

Well, guess what? We have yet another fine example of the churnalism that was mentioned a few pages earlier in this thread:

Mazda to launch new rotary engine but not before 2020 | Magneti Marelli

The first one that correctly guesses where they got this information from wins... nothing

Notice how they carefully removed any mention of the original quotes and rewrote the article to make it look like the 2020 date was an explicit statement from Mazda.

Dear Magneti Marelli, your business is to make car components, not (pseudo)journalism. Please, only do what you're good at.

gwilliams6

zoom 44, maybe, was it for the family's Pocono campground or their mansions in Nazareth, Pa. Here is a shot of Mario"s mansion which sits next to Michael's former mansion, separated by their six small golf holes. Marco Andretti bought his dad Michael's mansion from him for $2 million back in 2010, when Michael moved to Indianapolis where his Andretti Motorsports is headquartered. As a kid, Marco had grown up in that mansion. Shots with Michael here inside and outside his then Nazareth mansion and with now ex-wife. Michael has remarried since. photos copyright: Gerald S. Williams

The shots of Mario at the Pocono campgrounds are back from our film days at the Philadelphia Inquirer (before our switch to digital cameras). If I can find the film or the published clips, I will scan a couple and post.

Since the Inquirer was the largest newspaper in the Andrettis home state, I covered countless races and other feature stories on Mario and Michael over their years as drivers ,and Michael as a team owner. The entire family has always been super gracious with the press. The family kind of took to me as I was one of the few afro-american journalists covering them and auto racing at the time, while being a car nut with crazy modified rotaries myself. Yes I let Mario have some spins in my hot RX7s. I still get a Xmas card each year from Michael and his Andretti motorsport team.

And a shot of a young driver Dario Franchitti (far right, resting on rear tire) with Andretti team engineers going over his Indy car at the track.

Cheers

zoom44

we took stuff to Mario's in Nazareth and up to the place in the Poconos. I'm sure i mentioned this to you before but Im from Pa. grew up in Chester County Coatesville/West Chester/Downingtown. Met the Andrettis a couple times. We spent more time at the drags though mostly at Maple Grove but also in Jersey and Maryland. We were friends with Grumpy , I have pics of me at his place at Christmas and him and his drivers(dating my aunts at the time) would come to my grandparents at Christmas too. spent alot of time in the pits at Maple Grove.

sorry for the threadjack fellas. I never tire of talking about motorsports in PA in the 70s/80s

p.s. I was always a Bulletin guy until they went under. The Inquirer did a good job of not screwing it up when that happened

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

his place isnt far from me at all

ASH8

Thread relevance guys, really.....?

yomomspimp06

they're petitioning the Andrettis to join the #rxvisionmovement

zoom44

i apologized right up there^ #justbuilditmazda

zoom44

#justbuilditMazda

zoom44

#justbuilditMazda

yomomspimp06

^I've yet to see those shots. Glorious!

gwilliams6

Thanks Zoom for posting those great detail shots !

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Zoom just gave me chest pains!
hmm 8k redline?
3 rotors are also more efficient at cruise I had access to a rotary engineers discussion and although it was not officially said it was strongly hinted by him that a 3 rotor was going to be needed. Makes sense to me.
Guys I have gotten over 20 PM's and that is great. I will answer all and sorry it has taken so long

fmzambon

Well, if there's anything else you can post here please do so

I really hope this is true. 3 rotors, hmmmmm...

But

this leads to a few questions. By adding another rotor the total displacement goes up all else being equal. I remember reading somewhere that the power target for the NA 16X was between 300 and 350hp (this is the only link that I could find: Mazda Design Breakthrough May Give Rotary New Life); adding another rotor would increase the displacement by 50% and power would likely follow. That would easily mean over 400hp from an NA engine, and we've had a few hints that the new rotary will be turbo. Even a mild turbocharging would push the power level past the 500hp mark, and while I'd love to see this, Mazda has never been at the top of the horsepower race. Personally I think that even 400hp is not very likely, let alone 500+.

What does this mean? Well, if it's indeed 3 rotor and turbo, the only thing left to keep the power near the desired level is to reduce the per-rotor displacement.
This seems consistent with the dashboard of the Rx-vision: I find it difficult to believe that Mazda can make an engine that, when compared to the Renesis, uses larger rotors AND more of them AND is turbo AND only looses a few hundred rpm for the redline. A reduction to, say, 600cc per rotor would make sense in this case: 1.8 liters total displacement, so easily over 400 with a turbo if desired and no need to dramatically choke the engine with electronic limiters to bring it down to whatever power level is desired.

hornbm

iTrader: (1)

A modern turbo 3 rotor could go down as one of the best engines of all time. We know this, and Mazda certainly knows this.

Smaller rotors could be interesting. I always thought a 3 rotor 10A based engine would be a pretty cool idea.

Honestly, there's no guarantee whatsoever that the rotor dimensions of the eventual skyactive-r match that of the 16x. Its totally possible that they found a better/different size by now. We had the single rotor ev generator unit a few years back, that utilized a smaller rotor. It at least says they have been experimenting with different rotor sizes.

I really do hope whatever they eventually end up doing is more than 2 rotors. With factory boost as well, the modding potential would be ridiculous.

fmzambon

I know that the per-rotor displacement was not fixed by the 16X. With a clean sheet design the engineers can choose any size that works. There's no "we must reuse that part" constraint that limits what can be changed and what not.

With 10A-sized rotors even a 4-rotor may be feasible. The problem is that with smaller rotors the surface/volume ratio of each combustion chamber worsens all else being equal. And it would be a longer and heavier engine.
That sound though...

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Not going to happen for exactly the reason you state. The more rotors, the higher the emissions and lower the fuel economy. The two Achilles' Heels of the Wankel. Mazda went 16X because they know larger rotors with better surface/volume ratio reduces weight/hp, increase economy, and reduces emissions.

The maximum size for a viable engine is two rotors.

.

77mjd

You are exactly right. Unless Mazda has made some historic breakthrough we don't know about yet, a 2 rotor, possibly with some kind of turbo is the only feasible way to make this car happen. Honestly, if they could get 250-275hp N/A, in a 2500-2700lb car I'd be happy.