Martyr#1

I have driven the new 6, it drives very nicely compared to the previous model.
However i don't understand your logic, basing a car's value on it's horsepower.

For example: The first Gen Lotus Elise had less power than the current 6 at 118bhp and was over $40k new back in 1996, when it came to the states in 05 it had 190bhp and well optioned was in the ballpark of $55k.

So price really has nothing to do with an automobiles value.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Huh? Price has nothing to do with a cars value? The previous model Mazda 6 was a turd as well so I don't understand your point. No one is arguing the new Mazda 6 is not better than the last. As a matter of fact no one is bashing it all, it's a well put together car. My issue with it is the price for what you get. And I'm not sure what your point about the Lotus is either. It's all about the comparison with the relevant cars in it's class and price point.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Bottom line:

Different people buy cars for different reason. Some people value power higher than others. Someone that doesn't look for more power won't be swayed by someone that does, and vise versa.


Not much point in arguing about it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yep, but the big hype of the new Mazda 6 is and has been performance. My point is that it is weak in that regard due to the crappy trans and an engine that has no place in a "sporty" sedan.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I am not one for internet arguing nor much arguing at all, especially among people I call friends (And I consider you as such). So for the sake of conversation; it is always important to be factual and as logical as we can:

I never made any point regarding the role of torque vs horsepower. I'm not sure why you think the 6 does not do a number of things better than most of it's 'DIRECT' competition and I don't know what makes you keep calling it's engine weak. One more time: It's direct competition is Toyota Camry (With 4 cylinder), Honda Accord (With 4 cylinder), Nissan Altima (With 4 cylinder), Hyundai Sonata (With 4 cylinder).

I like to point out my biases in a debate or conversation when it is even slightly appropriate: I am a Mazda nut/ enthusiast/ recruiter etc. My life revolves among a few things of which Mazda is an important piece.

I HAVE had the pleasure of having the new 6 for about an hour, brought to me by Jim Ellis Mazda of Atlanta. I was impressed, but due to my bias I am wanting to see the magazine people line them up and give their views. The two minor weaknesses that I predict from the Mazda are wind noise from the mirrors (Not bad but ...) and suspension firmness (The price you pay for some extra zoom zoom handling). I have NOT driven the competition.

I know I can't change anyone's views in this world (That is of their own processing) but I want to be civil and share my own .

Paul.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It's not arguing It's friendly discussion my friend.

But I don't agree about what it's competition is. I don't think you can compare a $30,000.00+ Mazda 6 GT to a four cylinder Camry, Accord, Altima, etc. that is in the $25,000.00 price range.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

(Using MSRPs, which are all higher than anyone should be paying)

Mazda6: Starting at $20,800, GT at $29,496
Camry: Starting at $22,234, Hybrid XLE 4cyl at $27,670 (Hybrid needed to "compete" on mileage, a HUGE factor for the buyer base)
Accord: Starting at $21,680, EX-L 4cyl at $27,995
Altima: Starting at $21,760, SV (4cyl highest) at $24,460

So yes, the 6 GT is the highest priced of the top trims of the 4 cyls, though you get far more than the Altima, roughly the same as the Camry and Accord, though it's only an increase of $1,800 vs the Camry and $1,500 vs the Accord. So not the $5k difference that keeps being referenced.

And base vs base, the 6 is only slightly down on power, cheaper, and the best mileage. I didn't dig through the features, but I'd bet that it's also the most 'loaded' of the base trims.

I'd say it competes very well for it's intended target buyer profile.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

MSRP is one thing, what you can actually get it for now, with the options you want, is another.

As I indicated before, I could get just about any of the competition fully loaded in V-6 trim for the same price or cheaper as I could get a fully loaded Mazda 6 GT for. There really is no argument, that is just the way it is (in San Antonio, Texas anyway).

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Dealers are still dealers across the board. What you can do with one dealer, you can do with another. My local dealer has a standing offer of $2,000 off MSRP is where to start the price negotiations.

If you can argue down a Toyota salesman, you can argue down a Mazda salesman. Most of them jump between brands regularly anyway, and you can always find leverage.

Yes, you can get the V6 engine options in the others for roughly the same or not much more than a GT's price. But that goes back to my point that not everyone jumps after power as the first goal. Especially the people that are buying commuter sedans. It simply isn't as much of a priority for them. Mileage is far higher in the importance list, and there is a mileage cost for that V6 that will push plenty of people away.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I think most of us here would agree that the 6 GT at almost $30k is pricier than the other loaded 4 cylinder cars in the segment. I will investigate some feature differences and see whether it can be argued that Mazda is off base with the pricing or not. If I am in the wrong I like to admit it (Earlier I told Carbon8 that a 6 GT was $27k and that was incorrect). The thing I'm trying to understand is why you keep referring to the engine as weak and the trans as crappy. The one area that I will agree with you is: For $30k you can buy a car in this segment with more power, no argument.

Paul.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's the factor of relativity. He drives a quite fast boosted 8, so it's going to take quite a bit to not feel 'weak'. The 8 is crazy fast to someone coming from a Honda Insight.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well for work I occasionally drive our 2011 Honda Odyssey and it felt better (shifted better, no worries getting up to speed on the highway, etc.) than the Mazda 6. Actually I am pretty sure it would walk a stock RX-8 in a straight line actually. I'm not the only one who disagree either, Dannobre also drove a new Mazda 6 and said it handled like a pig.

ASH8

YEAH...

I love my Miata, it does things my RX-8 can never do, it is way more FUN...sorry but just the truth.....GOD I wish it had a Rotary inside!!

ASH8

FFS the 6 is not meant to be a "sports car", but a 5 seater....family car!.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Handled like a pig compared to what, an RX-8 or even a suspension improved RX-8? I liked the suspension feel, steering response and cornering through moderate corners. Maybe it's the best handling pig in the pen, I don't know. It's funny how subjective stuff like this can be. I loved the transmission. I tried it at red line shifting and at a little lower which was even better.

I don't think it is possible for you to like this car and I sure did try to convert you .

Paul

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's the weight. It's hard driving my 8 after months of driving my 99 then my MSM. The ~550lb drop from my 8 to the MSM is huge, and is really felt everywhere. The 99 was another 250lbs lighter, though about half the power.

The 8 is good, but.... can't beat the weight loss


I agree though, I miss the instant throttle response and rev range of the Renesis. The turbo is fun, but not my preferred choice.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I do like the car in general, and if the GT was 25k out the door I would have no issue. The interior is great and the GT in black with the 19" wheels is slick.

but this is not:




It is funny how subjective it is because I cannot think for the life of me how you think that jerky, late responding trans is anything beyond marginal at best. It blows my mind that someone would think it's great. But that is what makes this whole car addiction interesting

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Why does no one compare the 6 to a fusion

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Because until this generation, the 6 basically WAS the Fusion. Ford and Mazda joint venture, they shared the platform.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Wow, I just looked it up. I had not thought of that one. Man they look similar, The fully loaded titanium with can be had for about $2,000.00 over the price of as Mazda 6 GT. Oh and you get 80 more HP, and way more torx

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Yes I'm aware of the old generations but the new ones seem to have gone in entirely opposite directions with the mazda going more sportier the fusions seems to have taken to a refinement of a more luxurious car then it has been known to be. And yes 9k it's new 2.0T power plant is impressive even has faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than the mazda with the 2.2l diesel. It's quite a remarkable difference over its predecessors

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I can only imagine what the Ecoboost will do with a flash tune. The F150 Ecoboost can get 75 more Hp and 100ft/lb of torque with a flash. The next Mustang with the Ecoboost, lighter weight, and IRS will be something to contend with. I have never been a Ford fan but they have gotten my attention.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Yes it produces great numbers and has high potential, but it is also 300lbs heavier and real word gas mileage won't be as good as the 6. I also feel it will be a very popular car. And there's nothing I hate more than driving 1 of 1million cars around.

Other than that I can't find anything wrong with the Fusion, I would also like to add the interior of the titanium edition is leagues above any of its competitors.

Bladecutter

I hate to point out the obvious, but if your friend's car has a jerky transmission, but everyone else here has reported the transmission to feel fantastic, have you considered the possibility that there's something WRONG with YOUR FRIEND'S CAR???

And if we've learned anything about Mazda over the years, its that you DON'T buy the top of the line of a new model Mazda, because the very next year, there will be improvements, the CX-5 is a great example. The Touring and the Grand Touring are now coming with the 2.5 gas engine. Anyone who bought a 2.0 in Touring or Grand Touring officially have a lesser car. And in a few more months, the diesel will be available.

If I wanted a Mazda 6, I would buy it in a couple of months, and choose a Sport (must have manual) after the initial swell of people buy their cars, and it becomes more available on dealer lots.

BC.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

I tried not to comment on how the Mazda6's transmission is until I have actually driven it. It is the same transmission as my CX-5 actually.

I am surprised that you found it to be jerky and unresponsive. It is by far one of the smoothest automatic transmissions I have driven, not to mention that it is very quick with the addition of the locking wet clutches. The rev-match downshifts are perfect every time. Though I must admit that upon first cold starts and the first stop, it will jerk a little disengaging the wet clutch in first gear. Other than that, it is perfect.

I have not read one review on the CX-5 or Mazda6 that critisizes anything similar to what you have mentioned, 9k. Hence the reason I am surprised. All agree that it is quick, smooth, and responsive. Granted it is eager to upshift when driven casually to save gas mileage, but it does adapt to driving style.