DSG Tranny in 06 GTI
03-20-2006, 06:01 PM
#101
Originally Posted by RotarySpirit
The car changes gears itself, hence it is automatic.
It's a shame you read all this and latched on to the wrong information
There is no difference between a piston engine and a rotary engine, they both make the car go! (edited to make it hit home).
Gotta love the people that parade around here all day complaining of the ignorant folks that dont know the difference between a piston engine and a rotary, now here the same people are saying if a transmission can shift itself automatically then they are all the same.
Hypocracy FTW!
03-20-2006, 06:03 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by Aspire705
Maannn...I know I don't post here often, but I normally enjoy reading the usually informative & thought-provoking threads here on rx8club. That is, until I come across threads like these where it seems people are more concerned w/ arguing w/ each other than peacefully reaching a generally accepted understanding of subject matter.
We're all auto enthusiasts here guys, so why can't we act like it & come to common ground or agree to disagree when necessary w/out the unnecessarily heated debate?
Neway, I thought I'd give this 1 good try to help reach common ground on things b4 letting u guys continue impaling each other w/ the flaming discourse.
Until a satisfactory compromise is reached, how bout we all agree to call all DSG/SMG/F1 style trannies sequential gearboxes? That way we avoid the ambiguous & apparently hard to define terms "automatic" or "manual"?
That ok? Cuz if you think about it, those 3 trannies have 1 fundamentally intrinsic character in common. They all force you to shift gears in sequential order. No skipping gears on up or downshifts while changing gears.
Agreed? Sheesh...you'd think we were all high school boy racers or sumthin the way we're goin on & on about things. Neway, if that's not satisfactory, feel free to continue the heated argument till some1 gives up or concedes. My $.02.
We're all auto enthusiasts here guys, so why can't we act like it & come to common ground or agree to disagree when necessary w/out the unnecessarily heated debate?
Neway, I thought I'd give this 1 good try to help reach common ground on things b4 letting u guys continue impaling each other w/ the flaming discourse.
Until a satisfactory compromise is reached, how bout we all agree to call all DSG/SMG/F1 style trannies sequential gearboxes? That way we avoid the ambiguous & apparently hard to define terms "automatic" or "manual"?
That ok? Cuz if you think about it, those 3 trannies have 1 fundamentally intrinsic character in common. They all force you to shift gears in sequential order. No skipping gears on up or downshifts while changing gears.
Agreed? Sheesh...you'd think we were all high school boy racers or sumthin the way we're goin on & on about things. Neway, if that's not satisfactory, feel free to continue the heated argument till some1 gives up or concedes. My $.02.
I don't deny for a second that I don't like to debate cars. I also don't like when people start making it personal and flinging insults, but that's simply a sign to me that I'm winning an argument.
I also don't think it's so hard to define the terms automatic and manual.
"adjective
1 automatic
operating with minimal human intervention; independent of external control; "automatic transmission"; "a budget deficit that caused automatic spending cuts"
2 automatic, automatonlike, machinelike, robotlike
like the unthinking functioning of a machine; "an automatic `thank you'"; "machinelike efficiency"
3 automatic, reflex(a), reflexive
without volition or conscious control; "the automatic shrinking of the pupils of the eye in strong light"; "a reflex knee jerk"; "sneezing is reflexive" "
"adjective
1 manual
requiring human effort; "a manual transmission"
2 manual(a)
doing or requiring physical work; "manual labor"; "manual laborer"
3 manual
of or relating to the hands; "manual dexterity""
There is no human effort required in a DSG and it is operated with minimal human intervention. At no point in this debate did I say the DSG, SMG, whatever, is the same thing is a traditional slushbox automatic. I even said early on in this thread to use the term semi-automatic if you prefer, which Cleont scoffed at and then later used the term himself.
03-20-2006, 06:06 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by cleoent
If you skip over ike's and glyphon's posts there is some good info, and I'm glad you came away with something.
It's a shame you read all this and latched on to the wrong information
There is no difference between a piston engine and a rotary engine, they both make the car go! (edited to make it hit home).
Gotta love the people that parade around here all day complaining of the ignorant folks that dont know the difference between a piston engine and a rotary, now here the same people are saying if a transmission can shift itself automatically then they are all the same.
Hypocracy FTW!
It's a shame you read all this and latched on to the wrong information
There is no difference between a piston engine and a rotary engine, they both make the car go! (edited to make it hit home).
Gotta love the people that parade around here all day complaining of the ignorant folks that dont know the difference between a piston engine and a rotary, now here the same people are saying if a transmission can shift itself automatically then they are all the same.
Hypocracy FTW!
03-20-2006, 06:16 PM
#105
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Originally Posted by Ike
I don't deny for a second that I don't like to debate cars. I also don't like when people start making it personal and flinging insults, but that's simply a sign to me that I'm winning an argument.
I also don't think it's so hard to define the terms automatic and manual.
"adjective
1 automatic
operating with minimal human intervention; independent of external control; "automatic transmission"; "a budget deficit that caused automatic spending cuts"
2 automatic, automatonlike, machinelike, robotlike
like the unthinking functioning of a machine; "an automatic `thank you'"; "machinelike efficiency"
3 automatic, reflex(a), reflexive
without volition or conscious control; "the automatic shrinking of the pupils of the eye in strong light"; "a reflex knee jerk"; "sneezing is reflexive" "
"adjective
1 manual
requiring human effort; "a manual transmission"
2 manual(a)
doing or requiring physical work; "manual labor"; "manual laborer"
3 manual
of or relating to the hands; "manual dexterity""
There is no human effort required in a DSG and it is operated with minimal human intervention. At no point in this debate did I say the DSG, SMG, whatever, is the same thing is a traditional slushbox automatic. I even said early on in this thread to use the term semi-automatic if you prefer, which Cleont scoffed at and then later used the term himself.
I also don't think it's so hard to define the terms automatic and manual.
"adjective
1 automatic
operating with minimal human intervention; independent of external control; "automatic transmission"; "a budget deficit that caused automatic spending cuts"
2 automatic, automatonlike, machinelike, robotlike
like the unthinking functioning of a machine; "an automatic `thank you'"; "machinelike efficiency"
3 automatic, reflex(a), reflexive
without volition or conscious control; "the automatic shrinking of the pupils of the eye in strong light"; "a reflex knee jerk"; "sneezing is reflexive" "
"adjective
1 manual
requiring human effort; "a manual transmission"
2 manual(a)
doing or requiring physical work; "manual labor"; "manual laborer"
3 manual
of or relating to the hands; "manual dexterity""
There is no human effort required in a DSG and it is operated with minimal human intervention. At no point in this debate did I say the DSG, SMG, whatever, is the same thing is a traditional slushbox automatic. I even said early on in this thread to use the term semi-automatic if you prefer, which Cleont scoffed at and then later used the term himself.
Actually I happen to agree w/ you that describing these trannies according to whether or not they shift for you, makes more sense than naming them according to how similar they are in operation or parts to traditional autos or manuals. Jus my personal opinion on that.
Hey, if the tranny shifts for you, it's an automatic. Regardless of if it uses clutches or parts similar to your garden variety slushbox. If you have to shift it using a shifter & clutch OR steering/console mounted shifter levers (as in some DSG/SMGs), it's a manual. Right?
I think the major source of disagreement over what to classify these sequential gearboxes as, is whether or not they come preprogrammed to shift for you or not. Agreed?
While I can see there being reason for disagreement over whether to classify them by shift operation or associated parts, I doubt any1 here will go so far as to call a sequential gearbox (of ANY kind, DSG or SMG) that shifts for you when necessary, a manual tranny.
*If I'm wrong, plz post your reason(s) for all to see.
Here's the catch tho. What if some of the DSGs/SMGs come preprogrammed from the factory to shift for you at redline or using other speed related data? Would u still call it an auto? I would.
What if no matter how many times you hammer the redline, it won't shift for you & you have to shift it using steering wheel/console mounted shifters? Would you call it a manual? I would. You'd still have to manually shift it right? I think we agree on this & this is where you & cleoent disagree.
We clear? Sorry for all the edits, but it's painfully clear that semantics are the main reason we have all this confusion in the 1st place, so I want to make my statements as accurate to my true opinion as possible. I'm sure you all can appreciate that.
In the end, if ne1 doesn't like my opinions or those of any1 else, that's fine! Feel free to disregard them. That's what chat forums are for. It's but the single opinion, of a single user, on a single forum about a single topic.
But let's not let this simple misunderstanding/disagreement plant the seed of indifference b/w members on a forum for a "hobby" we all appreciate. Agreed? Later all!
Last edited by Aspire705; 03-20-2006 at 06:38 PM.
03-20-2006, 06:19 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by cleoent
If you skip over ike's and glyphon's posts there is some good info, and I'm glad you came away with something.
It's a shame you read all this and latched on to the wrong information
There is no difference between a piston engine and a rotary engine, they both make the car go! (edited to make it hit home).
Gotta love the people that parade around here all day complaining of the ignorant folks that dont know the difference between a piston engine and a rotary, now here the same people are saying if a transmission can shift itself automatically then they are all the same.
Hypocracy FTW!
It's a shame you read all this and latched on to the wrong information
There is no difference between a piston engine and a rotary engine, they both make the car go! (edited to make it hit home).
Gotta love the people that parade around here all day complaining of the ignorant folks that dont know the difference between a piston engine and a rotary, now here the same people are saying if a transmission can shift itself automatically then they are all the same.
Hypocracy FTW!
The part you are missing is that the internal workings of the car should not be considered into that statement. Both piston- and rotary-driven cars are cars. Sequential gearboxes that can shift automatically are automatic. I'm not saying they are inherently the same just 'cause they are automatic. Automatic is a blanket statement, yes. It doesn't give any leeway to different technologies used in achieving the automated effect. However, it doesn't always make sense to not categorize something just because you can call it something more specific. For example, I don't say, "Hey, nice 5.0 Liter, fuel-injected, piston-driven internal combustion engine." when I see someone who has a nice car. I just say, "Hey, nice car."
03-20-2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspire705
Whooaaa... hey easy there. I never accused you of saying the DSG/SMG/whatever is the same as a traditional slushbox auto.
Actually I happen to agree w/ you that describing these trannies according to whether or not they shift for you makes more sense than naming them according to how similar they are in operation to traditional autos or manuals.
Hey, if the tranny shifts for you, it's an automatic. If I have to shift it using a shifter & clutch it's a manual. Right?
Here's the catch tho. What if some of the DSGs come preprogrammed to shift for you at redline or using other speed related data? Would u still call it an auto?
I would.
What if no matter how many times you hammer the redline, it won't shift for you & you have to shift it using steering wheel/counsole mounted shifters. Would you call it a manual? I would. You'd still have to manually shift it right? I think we agree on this & this is where you & cleoent disagree.
We clear?
Actually I happen to agree w/ you that describing these trannies according to whether or not they shift for you makes more sense than naming them according to how similar they are in operation to traditional autos or manuals.
Hey, if the tranny shifts for you, it's an automatic. If I have to shift it using a shifter & clutch it's a manual. Right?
Here's the catch tho. What if some of the DSGs come preprogrammed to shift for you at redline or using other speed related data? Would u still call it an auto?
I would.
What if no matter how many times you hammer the redline, it won't shift for you & you have to shift it using steering wheel/counsole mounted shifters. Would you call it a manual? I would. You'd still have to manually shift it right? I think we agree on this & this is where you & cleoent disagree.
We clear?
Lastly, yes I'd say we agree in our thinking.
03-20-2006, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
My last statement wasn't mean for you, I just said it after I quoted you to avoid making two posts when I had the thought in my head. Sorry for the confusion.
Lastly, yes I'd say we agree in our thinking.
Lastly, yes I'd say we agree in our thinking.
03-20-2006, 09:35 PM
#109
Stuck in a love triangle
Jesus...VW marketing department went ****** nuts on this car. Mazda should take notes.
When you go to the MK5's web page, it lets you put together all the options on the car all using Flash. And then when you are finished putting it together, a video comes up with the German chick from the commercial that shows you everything you selected, including color. I can't imagine how many times they had to film and refilm all of that to include every option. Depending on the options you select, the video has the chick saying various bullshit..and if you put on ground effects it has you race another car. That's pretty insane right there.
Anyway if you go to the page, you'll see that by default the car comes with the 6spd transmission, and the 0-60 on the right side is listed as 7.1 seconds. However when you click transmission and change it to the automatic transmission, the 0-60 number drops to to 6.8 seconds. I almost cracked up when I saw that and thought to myself...what bullshit advertising. An automatic being faster than its manual counterpart?
More like the more expensive transmission drops down the 0-60 number.
I was thinking that maybe they got their figures without a clutch drop. But now that I've read all the **** on this page and realizing it's a DSG tranny...maybe it is true after all. Maybe the manual is actually slower in this case.
If this turns out to be true, then all I have to say is...it's too bad Gordon was wrong and Mazda didn't put something like this into the 06 automatic RX-8s as he had thought they would..that way they'd have nearly identical (or even faster?) performance to the manual 8s.
When you go to the MK5's web page, it lets you put together all the options on the car all using Flash. And then when you are finished putting it together, a video comes up with the German chick from the commercial that shows you everything you selected, including color. I can't imagine how many times they had to film and refilm all of that to include every option. Depending on the options you select, the video has the chick saying various bullshit..and if you put on ground effects it has you race another car. That's pretty insane right there.
Anyway if you go to the page, you'll see that by default the car comes with the 6spd transmission, and the 0-60 on the right side is listed as 7.1 seconds. However when you click transmission and change it to the automatic transmission, the 0-60 number drops to to 6.8 seconds. I almost cracked up when I saw that and thought to myself...what bullshit advertising. An automatic being faster than its manual counterpart?
More like the more expensive transmission drops down the 0-60 number. I was thinking that maybe they got their figures without a clutch drop. But now that I've read all the **** on this page and realizing it's a DSG tranny...maybe it is true after all. Maybe the manual is actually slower in this case.
If this turns out to be true, then all I have to say is...it's too bad Gordon was wrong and Mazda didn't put something like this into the 06 automatic RX-8s as he had thought they would..that way they'd have nearly identical (or even faster?) performance to the manual 8s.
03-20-2006, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
Jesus...VW marketing department went ****** nuts on this car. Mazda should take notes.
When you go to the MK5's web page, it lets you put together all the options on the car all using Flash. And then when you are finished putting it together, a video comes up with the German chick from the commercial that shows you everything you selected, including color. I can't imagine how many times they had to film and refilm all of that to include every option. Depending on the options you select, the video has the chick saying various bullshit..and if you put on ground effects it has you race another car. That's pretty insane right there.
Anyway if you go to the page, you'll see that by default the car comes with the 6spd transmission, and the 0-60 on the right side is listed as 7.1 seconds. However when you click transmission and change it to the automatic transmission, the 0-60 number drops to to 6.8 seconds. I almost cracked up when I saw that and thought to myself...what bullshit advertising. An automatic being faster than its manual counterpart? More like the more expensive transmission drops down the 0-60 number.
I was thinking that maybe they got their figures without a clutch drop. But now that I've read all the **** on this page and realizing it's a DSG tranny...maybe it is true after all. Maybe the manual is actually slower in this case.
If this turns out to be true, then all I have to say is...it's too bad Gordon was wrong and Mazda didn't put something like this into the 06 automatic RX-8s as he had thought they would..that way they'd have nearly identical (or even faster?) performance to the manual 8s.
When you go to the MK5's web page, it lets you put together all the options on the car all using Flash. And then when you are finished putting it together, a video comes up with the German chick from the commercial that shows you everything you selected, including color. I can't imagine how many times they had to film and refilm all of that to include every option. Depending on the options you select, the video has the chick saying various bullshit..and if you put on ground effects it has you race another car. That's pretty insane right there.
Anyway if you go to the page, you'll see that by default the car comes with the 6spd transmission, and the 0-60 on the right side is listed as 7.1 seconds. However when you click transmission and change it to the automatic transmission, the 0-60 number drops to to 6.8 seconds. I almost cracked up when I saw that and thought to myself...what bullshit advertising. An automatic being faster than its manual counterpart?
More like the more expensive transmission drops down the 0-60 number. I was thinking that maybe they got their figures without a clutch drop. But now that I've read all the **** on this page and realizing it's a DSG tranny...maybe it is true after all. Maybe the manual is actually slower in this case.
If this turns out to be true, then all I have to say is...it's too bad Gordon was wrong and Mazda didn't put something like this into the 06 automatic RX-8s as he had thought they would..that way they'd have nearly identical (or even faster?) performance to the manual 8s.
03-20-2006, 09:51 PM
#111
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Originally Posted by Ike
Hard to say really... I'm not sure it could handle the 9k+ RPMs in the long run and it may react differently since the GTI makes so much torque down low compared to the RX-8. The DSG in it's current US form also couldn't keep the RX-8 from being a dog off the line with an automatic.
Damm the thread got longer and longer.....besides the two guys going back and forth between...AUTOMATIC NOT AUTOMATIC...its a DSG.....not an SMG......oh well
I loved it and if it wasnt for the low HP on the GTI I would consider this car as my net one, now since I'm aiming to something higher like a BMW M3 in the near future I would leave the GTI idea to rest for now.
But like I said earlier automakers should look at this tranny really close and make a similar if not the same (if VW sales the Tech.....Porsche has their eyes on it and VW is not giving it up yet)
Keep Test driving and enjoy the ride.
03-20-2006, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
Jesus...VW marketing department went ****** nuts on this car. Mazda should take notes.
When you go to the MK5's web page, it lets you put together all the options on the car all using Flash. And then when you are finished putting it together, a video comes up with the German chick from the commercial that shows you everything you selected, including color. I can't imagine how many times they had to film and refilm all of that to include every option. Depending on the options you select, the video has the chick saying various bullshit..and if you put on ground effects it has you race another car. That's pretty insane right there.
Anyway if you go to the page, you'll see that by default the car comes with the 6spd transmission, and the 0-60 on the right side is listed as 7.1 seconds. However when you click transmission and change it to the automatic transmission, the 0-60 number drops to to 6.8 seconds. I almost cracked up when I saw that and thought to myself...what bullshit advertising. An automatic being faster than its manual counterpart? More like the more expensive transmission drops down the 0-60 number.
I was thinking that maybe they got their figures without a clutch drop. But now that I've read all the **** on this page and realizing it's a DSG tranny...maybe it is true after all. Maybe the manual is actually slower in this case.
If this turns out to be true, then all I have to say is...it's too bad Gordon was wrong and Mazda didn't put something like this into the 06 automatic RX-8s as he had thought they would..that way they'd have nearly identical (or even faster?) performance to the manual 8s.
When you go to the MK5's web page, it lets you put together all the options on the car all using Flash. And then when you are finished putting it together, a video comes up with the German chick from the commercial that shows you everything you selected, including color. I can't imagine how many times they had to film and refilm all of that to include every option. Depending on the options you select, the video has the chick saying various bullshit..and if you put on ground effects it has you race another car. That's pretty insane right there.
Anyway if you go to the page, you'll see that by default the car comes with the 6spd transmission, and the 0-60 on the right side is listed as 7.1 seconds. However when you click transmission and change it to the automatic transmission, the 0-60 number drops to to 6.8 seconds. I almost cracked up when I saw that and thought to myself...what bullshit advertising. An automatic being faster than its manual counterpart?
More like the more expensive transmission drops down the 0-60 number. I was thinking that maybe they got their figures without a clutch drop. But now that I've read all the **** on this page and realizing it's a DSG tranny...maybe it is true after all. Maybe the manual is actually slower in this case.
If this turns out to be true, then all I have to say is...it's too bad Gordon was wrong and Mazda didn't put something like this into the 06 automatic RX-8s as he had thought they would..that way they'd have nearly identical (or even faster?) performance to the manual 8s.
Go ahead and test drive one...dirve the 6 sp manual first and then do the same route with the DSG.....trust me you will be amazed.
This aint no ordinary AUTOMATIC...sorry.....Manumatic...sorry.....its a DSG
03-20-2006, 10:43 PM
#113
i pwn therefore i am
Based on the names alone, a DSG/SMG is more like an automatic than a manual. If you don't get that, you're probably a retard, get on a bench. Nothing in the name "manual" says "clutch" or "pedal" or "gear shift". Similarly, nothing in the name "automatic" says "torque converter" or "planetary gearset". An automatic transmission has got to be one that has the ability to automatically shift gears, which a DSG/SMG can do.
The problem here, cleoent, is that you're arguing terminology, but then toss in all these performance numbers. No one else is debating that except you.
Moreover, you're probably in the minority as far as the terminology debate. Insurance companies are probably going to lump DSG/SMG's in the same boat as the semi-auto of today -- in the automatic category.
And what's worse is that you bring up all this false information in this cocky, condescending way. No, the SMG M3 is NOT faster around a track. No, a DSG is NOT just like a manual transmission (hardware-wise). No, a DSG is not sequential at all (it can skip gears). And then you laugh it all off like you're not taking it serious and say that you aren't going to "get into it" and then continue to post dozens of replies.
I will agree with you that you can break down transmissions into traditional manuals, traditional automatics, CVT's, and DSG/SMG's. They each have distinctive characteristics. But don't post saying "don't call a DSG an automatic" if a person decides that the word automatic means "a transmission that can shift by itself". To them, they don't care HOW the thing shifts AUTOMATICALLY, they just don't like the fact that it shifts AUTOMATICALLY.
The problem here, cleoent, is that you're arguing terminology, but then toss in all these performance numbers. No one else is debating that except you.
Moreover, you're probably in the minority as far as the terminology debate. Insurance companies are probably going to lump DSG/SMG's in the same boat as the semi-auto of today -- in the automatic category.
And what's worse is that you bring up all this false information in this cocky, condescending way. No, the SMG M3 is NOT faster around a track. No, a DSG is NOT just like a manual transmission (hardware-wise). No, a DSG is not sequential at all (it can skip gears). And then you laugh it all off like you're not taking it serious and say that you aren't going to "get into it" and then continue to post dozens of replies.
I will agree with you that you can break down transmissions into traditional manuals, traditional automatics, CVT's, and DSG/SMG's. They each have distinctive characteristics. But don't post saying "don't call a DSG an automatic" if a person decides that the word automatic means "a transmission that can shift by itself". To them, they don't care HOW the thing shifts AUTOMATICALLY, they just don't like the fact that it shifts AUTOMATICALLY.
Last edited by saturn; 03-20-2006 at 11:06 PM.
03-20-2006, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
Based on the names alone, a DSG/SMG is more like an automatic than a manual. If you don't get that, you're probably a retard, get on a bench. Nothing in the name "manual" says "clutch" or "pedal" or "gear shift". Similarly, nothing in the name "automatic" says "torque converter" or "planetary gearset". An automatic transmission has got to be one that has the ability to automatically shift gears, which a DSG/SMG can do.
The problem here, cleoent, is that you're arguing terminology, but then toss in all these performance numbers. No one else is debating that except you.
Moreover, you're probably in the minority as far as the terminology debate. Insurance companies are probably going to lump DSG/SMG's in the same boat as the semi-auto of today -- in the automatic category.
And what's worse is that you bring up all this false information in this cocky, condescending way. No, the SMG M3 is NOT faster around a track. No, a DSG is NOT just like a manual transmission (hardware-wise). No, a DSG is not sequential at all (it can skip gears). And then you laugh it all off like you're not taking it serious and say that you aren't going to "get into it" and then continue to post dozens of replies.
I will agree with you that you can break down transmissions into traditional manuals, traditional automatics, CVT's, and DSG/SMG's. They each have distinctive characteristics. But don't post saying "don't call a DSG an automatic" if a person decides that the word automatic means "a transmission that can shift by itself". To them, they don't care HOW the thing shifts AUTOMATICALLY, they just don't like the fact that it shifts AUTOMATICALLY.
The problem here, cleoent, is that you're arguing terminology, but then toss in all these performance numbers. No one else is debating that except you.
Moreover, you're probably in the minority as far as the terminology debate. Insurance companies are probably going to lump DSG/SMG's in the same boat as the semi-auto of today -- in the automatic category.
And what's worse is that you bring up all this false information in this cocky, condescending way. No, the SMG M3 is NOT faster around a track. No, a DSG is NOT just like a manual transmission (hardware-wise). No, a DSG is not sequential at all (it can skip gears). And then you laugh it all off like you're not taking it serious and say that you aren't going to "get into it" and then continue to post dozens of replies.
I will agree with you that you can break down transmissions into traditional manuals, traditional automatics, CVT's, and DSG/SMG's. They each have distinctive characteristics. But don't post saying "don't call a DSG an automatic" if a person decides that the word automatic means "a transmission that can shift by itself". To them, they don't care HOW the thing shifts AUTOMATICALLY, they just don't like the fact that it shifts AUTOMATICALLY.
03-21-2006, 04:10 AM
#115
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Originally Posted by cleoent
DSG is the name of their technology.
stands for
direct shift gearbox IIRC
stands for
direct shift gearbox IIRC
also...
from http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/obje..._gti_specs.pdf
03-21-2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
Based on the names alone, a DSG/SMG is more like an automatic than a manual. If you don't get that, you're probably a retard, get on a bench. Nothing in the name "manual" says "clutch" or "pedal" or "gear shift". Similarly, nothing in the name "automatic" says "torque converter" or "planetary gearset". An automatic transmission has got to be one that has the ability to automatically shift gears, which a DSG/SMG can do.
The problem here, cleoent, is that you're arguing terminology, but then toss in all these performance numbers. No one else is debating that except you.
Moreover, you're probably in the minority as far as the terminology debate. Insurance companies are probably going to lump DSG/SMG's in the same boat as the semi-auto of today -- in the automatic category.
And what's worse is that you bring up all this false information in this cocky, condescending way. No, the SMG M3 is NOT faster around a track. No, a DSG is NOT just like a manual transmission (hardware-wise). No, a DSG is not sequential at all (it can skip gears). And then you laugh it all off like you're not taking it serious and say that you aren't going to "get into it" and then continue to post dozens of replies.
I will agree with you that you can break down transmissions into traditional manuals, traditional automatics, CVT's, and DSG/SMG's. They each have distinctive characteristics. But don't post saying "don't call a DSG an automatic" if a person decides that the word automatic means "a transmission that can shift by itself". To them, they don't care HOW the thing shifts AUTOMATICALLY, they just don't like the fact that it shifts AUTOMATICALLY.
The problem here, cleoent, is that you're arguing terminology, but then toss in all these performance numbers. No one else is debating that except you.
Moreover, you're probably in the minority as far as the terminology debate. Insurance companies are probably going to lump DSG/SMG's in the same boat as the semi-auto of today -- in the automatic category.
And what's worse is that you bring up all this false information in this cocky, condescending way. No, the SMG M3 is NOT faster around a track. No, a DSG is NOT just like a manual transmission (hardware-wise). No, a DSG is not sequential at all (it can skip gears). And then you laugh it all off like you're not taking it serious and say that you aren't going to "get into it" and then continue to post dozens of replies.
I will agree with you that you can break down transmissions into traditional manuals, traditional automatics, CVT's, and DSG/SMG's. They each have distinctive characteristics. But don't post saying "don't call a DSG an automatic" if a person decides that the word automatic means "a transmission that can shift by itself". To them, they don't care HOW the thing shifts AUTOMATICALLY, they just don't like the fact that it shifts AUTOMATICALLY.
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