cleoent

I didn't say SMG..

i said sequential manual transmission which is another word for f1 style tranny which is what SMG/DSG type tranny's are.

Would it kill you guys to read car magazines and popular mechanics once in a while?!?

BlueEyes

You said sequential manual transmission which is SMG. NOT DSG. Not the same thing. And I am unaware of any F1 car that uses a DSG. But feel free to show me otherwise.

Ike

Thanks for being so forviving!

Calling it a "sequential manual transmission that can be computer controlled to shift for you" is so much easier than saying automatic or semi-automatic

Also, it's not that it can shift for you, it WILL shift for you. It will also allow you to push some buttons to shift it, but when you get to a high enough RPM it shifts on its own, once again automatically.

cleoent

SMG = sequential manual gearbox

That's BMW's brand name for their sequential manual transmission. F1 style transmission, etc, all the same. Lambo i think calls it e-gear. They are all basically a form of gearbox with a clutch (or 2) that is controlled by a computer.

To make it easier to understand, every different car maker has some neato word for their traction control system, but basically what it amounts to is it's a traction control system. Some do a better job then other, but they are all basically traction control systems.

I dont know if F1's use VW's (maybe audi's lemans cars) DSG system, but make no mistake about it the DSG is an F1 style transmission.

Hope that helps.

Ike

I understand how they work, it seems you don't. It also seems you don't understand what the words automatic and manual mean. In addition to reading about, seeing videos on, I've driven the DSG and the SMG, have you?

Ike

Wrong again, would it kill you to read a car magazine...

SMG = Sequential M Gearbox

cleoent

No it won't, unless the car maker programs it do so, which has nothing to do with the type of transmission, it has to do with whether or not the car maker feels the driver should have the option of just pinging the car off the limiter. ARGH!

Unforunately, off the top of my head, when it comes to these types of tranny's I dont know which car makers will hold the gear all day, and which will shift it for you.

You're filling this thread with lots of wrong information.

BTW- my auto mazda 3, will not upshift to the next gear no matter what, so that "feature" is not what makes or breaks a f1 box.

cleoent

lol.

First link i found on google.

http://www.toodarkpark.org/misc/cars/m3/smg/index.html

Ike, you can keep trying, but perhaps you'd be better off posting in a thread about how shiney wrx paint is or something.

Ike

They all shift for you in road cars. I think you're confused as to who is filling the thread with misinformation. Also, what do you think shifts todays traditional autos. I'll give you a clue, it's not the magical automatic tranny fairy.

Glyphon

the 97 dodge avenger that i drove in college would shift up automatically instead of bouncing of the rev limiter. so you are right in that is not a feature exclusive to these new breeds of automatics.

BlueEyes

Someone want to tell me what "F1 style" is supposed to mean? DSG is not what is used in formula one, nor is it what ferrari calls their F1 transmission. So, why is DSG "F1 style"?

cleoent

ha ha ha.

Awesome. You have no factual evidence to add, so now out comes the sarcasm.

I'm not going to play games with you. If you want to be one of the many that don't understand the difference, go ahead mate, it's no skin off my back.

cleoent

Hmmm, not sure what you're meaning to say here.

Ike was (in his infinite wisdom) trying to say that what makes a car automatic is that even in manual mode they will shift up for you at redline.

That doesn't make a car a auto/or semi-auto, that's just the way some makers want it to be. Now a days both types of tranny's can let a car bounce of the redline, or for safety/longevity reasons will automatically upshift the car.

cleoent

It is a transmission with hydrolically (sp?) controlled clutches.

Which is what F1 transmissions are. It could be also called a sequential manual box, and a whole list of other names.

A read i found with google on the box.
http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?...icleId=2142264

Does that help? I'm using the term F1 style because these "semi-auto" boxes are what's been used in the f1 racing world for years.

Glyphon

so wait, you have factual evidence that there a auto tranny fairy? so does that make it an automagic transmission?

answer these questions...
1) does the dsg require any sort of user intervention besides selecting drive (and gas/brake) to cause the transmission to select a different gear?
2) does a traditional planetary gearset require any sort of user intervention besides selecting drive (and gas/brake) to cause the transmission to select a different gear?
3) does a manual transmission require any sort of user intervention besides selecting drive (and gas/brake) to cause the transmission to select a different gear?

there are 2 types of transmission. manual and automatic. one requires an action by the user to shift to a differnt gear. one does not require any action by the user to shift, but instead does it through mechanical or computerized means.

f1 transmission is a sequential setup, but it won't automatically shift under any circumstances. same with a motor cycle. even though they are sequential transmissions, they are still manual.

cleoent

That all makes sense, in theory. An f1 tranny could be setup to shift automatically, just would require a programming. You can buy ferrari's with the EXACT same tranny as their f1 cars, that can shift automatically, now unless they are dropping in this magical fairy everyone seems to love, tell me how that's possible.

There are 4 kind of trannys (well that i know of).

Traditional manual
Traditional auto
CVT
Semi-auto/f1/dsg/e-gear/smg ETC

3 of those can shifty automatically, but are not similiar at all to an "automatic" transmission.

Do you agree with that?

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

alright girls, this is a dumb argument. Its a seqential gearbox.. as opposed to a conventional automatic.. also as opposed to a conventional manual. get over yelling at eatchother over what somebody "calls" it, that doesnt change what it actually is. NOW, back to how cool it is...

Thats interesting news that Ferrari made at move at buying the technology. But what i would like to know is if the technology is actually not aloowed to be duplicated..? Is that why Ferrari would have to buy it, cant they make a version just like it, using the same concept?

cleoent

I'm actually enjoying having this debate, i hope the same would be true for the others.


As to why Ferrari would try to purchase VW's transmission, this happens all the time in the auto industry, if someone's got a good system save your R&D money and try to buy it from them. I'm not sure what kind of patents VW has, but you can be sure they have them.

Lotus puts toyota engines in their cars, saturn puts honda engines in their suv's, etc etc. Sometimes a bigger car company will just buy a smaller company to use their stuff (like ford buying mazda), it's just what they do


My question is: Why doesn't Lambo use DSG in their cars, instead using the inferior (from what i've read, i've never driven a murcielago or gallardo ) e-gear? That makes no sense to me.

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

the e-gear is not to well thought out from what Jeremy Clarkson says... The DSG would do very well there, your right, good idea.

Ike

Yes, my argument is factless and baseless. It's totally ignorant of me to make the argument that, it's an still an automatic because it shifts automatically, even though it's a very good automatic that works differently from a traditional automatic. Also, considering BMW holds the copyright to SMG and in that copyright it states SMG stands for Sequential M Gearbox, I'm way off base saying SMG stands for Sequential M Gearbox.

Glyphon

i agree that all the different technologies work differently.

and they are dropping in a magical fairy. its called a computer. that's how its possible.

what the point is, not the technology behind how the selection of a different is made, but whether or not user intervention is required to initiate the shift.

and i stick that there are 2 types of transmission (with several types of sub categories).

manual: user intervention required
traditional manual
manual sequential

automatic: no user intervention required
traditional auto
CVT
automatic sequential (DSG, SMG, etc)

i think what the problem here isn't one person is understanding the technology and one isn't, but that the definitions that we are using is different.

sti_eric

+eleventybillion

How simple is this to understand? DSG is not an automatic nor is it a manual. It is a Sequential Gearbox or Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG, also BMW's name for it's sequential gearbox). Note that it is not Sequential AUTOMATIC Gearbox. DSG/SMG are much closer to a manual transmission then they are to an automatic transmission. There is no planetary gearset and there is no torque converter, which are the things that make an automatic an automatic.

The problem is that people think that "tiptronic", "steptronic", etc - which are automatic transmissions with a planetary gearset and torque converter - are the same thing as DSG/SMG. They are most certainly not. This has probably hurt the image of DSG/SMG amongst the ignorant. The DSG/SMG can shift much faster than a person can, which is why sequential gearboxes are now the preferred gearboxes in all racecars.

Glyphon

no, those are simply parts that make a traditional automatic function.

what makes an auto and auto is no clutch pedal, and car shifts automatically

also, DSG is direct shift gearbox. it has no mention of auto or manual in its name. and yes, it is a sequential gearbox, but that in and of itselft does not mean auto or manual.

cleoent

We are both right when it comes to the name of SMG. However you were wrong, in your post, when you said i was wrong for spelling out the entire name. Got it?

It's not an automatic transmission. It's a manual transmission which can be shifted automatically.

cleoent

My original post, was intended to be for the original poster because it seems he was confused as to what kind of box was in the car. It's not an "automatic." If you go up to a DSG engineer and say you love their version of an automatic transmission they'd either fall on the ground and cry, or kill you on the spot.