Ike

How can people be affraid to side with you, you haven't made a valid argument yet. Kinda of hard to side with someone when they just make backhanded sweeping generalizations with no evidence or support...

truemagellen

you'd think the banana getting it in back peel would get sore after awhile but they just keep going! :p

Ike

They're making daiquiris! :D

RXLogic

I have a PT Cruiser and I prefer driving it around town (over the 8). However, after I bought the 8, I did decide that the PT had to have a suspension upgrade -- no more mushy rides for me. I'm thinking a turbo might be good too.

Reactionary

Like I don't know the need to prevent carbon build-up. I'll redline a few times every time I drive the car. But I'm careful to take it super-easy until the engine heats up. And in between the redlines, I'll shift at 3500.

Reactionary

I absolutely would rather own an RX8 than a Viper. Let's be honest. The current Viper has lost the pure raw and powerful exterior of the 1st generation Viper. Although the current Viper looks super wide, it also looks feminine. It just doesn't look right. Its interior, engineering, and driving dynamics are much better than the 1st generation Viper but it lost the soul of the original Viper's exterior. The original Viper excited me. The current Viper turns me off.

But as you can see in the GM thread I started, I would absolutely drive a Corvette. There is no snobbery or elitism here. I'm simply telling it like it is. I have nothing personal against American cars, obviously...now. I have something against crap. See, some of you are biased for American cars and those people should just admit it. I do not have anything against American cars. I simply do not have a bias with regard to American cars (check my GM thread just to nullify your doubts), which is the way it should be.

Reactionary

I'll keep your discourse in mind next time I become a race car driver. Forget about substance over style. I'm talking only about substance.

BTW. driving while using binoculars is extremely dangerous.

Reactionary

Oh yeah, sorry Aratinga, forgot about the GTO. I like the car. I'll add it to the list. I just wish they would put some more character to the exterior lines, eg. bring the fenders out a little.

PoorCollegeKid

That wasn't my point. Read the two posts over again.

You said:
To which I replied:

So, what exactly is the better alternative to the SRT4 in its class? You said that you could find a car that is better than the SRT4, so by all means, I would like to see what you think is better than the SRT4 in its class. Since this is simply your subjective opinion, there's no wrong answer, so feel free to post up your opinion on this matter. Personally, I think that the only car that comes close is the Cobalt SS, but that car costs 10% more and doesn't come with an LSD.

Speed-ER doc

If you just want to get from point a to point b, you should have bought a V4 Camry.

Reactionary

I know what you said. And our statements mesh fine. IF you feel a car is a better alternative, THEN you would drive it over the first one. The contrapositive is then: If you would not drive another car over the first car, then you feel the other car is not better. I would not drive the Neon SRT-4 over a few alternatives because I feel the SRT-4 is not better than those alternatives. You wrote that you would have a hard time passing up on the SRT-4 at around $20,000. So you would buy the Neon SRT-4 but you wouldn't be proud to drive it? You'd rather not drive it but you would own it? LOL. Go figure.

You also qualified "performance." Um ok. Do you own an RX8 over the alternatives? What about all the other considerations that most people who are not high school students would consider? With that, I can tell you I would rather have a Scion tc, Mazda 3 sedan, Honda Civic sedan old and new that hasn't come out yet, and Accord sedan with the 4 cylinder can be around the range as well. Not only could I pass up on the SRT-4 but under no circumstances- not even if they offered 300 HP, would I ever be caught in an SRT-4 or a Cobalt SS unless it was a rental car.

Let me restate again what I said earlier. How could you drive the SRT-4 without feeling at least a little embarrassed or uneasy unless you're a high school student? I can see someone picking the 350Z over the RX8 because of HP. But you would really drive the SRT-4 primarily because of the HP/performance? You really couldn't pass it up?

I detect a mismatch in your follow-up post. I think you got excited and had to post the thing about the SRT-4 and its performance being hard to pass up. However, I don't believe you yourself would jump to buy it, regardless of the alternatives. Would you actually jump to buy it? LOL. Like reading a children's book.

Reactionary

Or a tank. But they break down too often.

Like a rusty ol' tin
Cutting through the skin
Destroying everything as it went

I would rather own a Camry inline-4 or an Accord inline-4 over any Mustang, absolutely. The 2003 Cobra that was overrated in HP (that's the one you're talking about, right?) is an absolute **** mobile. The new Mustang is a complete post-ejaculatory and diarrhea mess of a car. As you know.

Kruul

I liked the 2005 GTO's enough to buy one!

Ike

Performance wise, which is what he stated in his original post, name a better car in its class? It doesn't exist, for 20k for a new car no other car compares "performance wise", for that very reason if I only had 20k to spend and wanted the most performance for my money on a new car that's where it would go. Would I be proud about driving an SRT-4, maybe maybe not, but I wouldn't feel any different with my Scion or Civic and I'd have a hell of a lot more fun driving than you would in your slow little car.

Let me make it simple for you if you need cliffnotes, stop twisting what people say around and name a car with better performance for 20k, if you can't then STFU.

Regards,
Ike

Speed-ER doc

The more posts you make, the more obvious it becomes that you know absolutely nothing about cars.

Reactionary

Ike, you missed my logics thing. First, this thread is about Chryslers I would own. Under no circumstances would I ever own a Neon SRT-4, regardless of performance. I have named the alternatives that I would rather own because they are superior overall. Second, why would he say it's hard to pass up on the Neon SRT-4 at $20,000 unless he also meant he would drive that car proudly? If he wouldn't drive that car proudly, why would it be difficult to pass up on it? So one possibility (Case A) is he would be proud to own the SRT-4. The other possibility is (Case B) he would not be proud but he just couldn't pass it up due to the performance-price combo, that he would hesitate and do a double-take. I asked: Would he jump on it without hesitation? My hunch was that he would not. He would most probably say to himself "damn that is a lot of performance for the price but that car is such an ugly and overall POS but I'll kick myself in the nuts if I pass up on that shiet." The only kind of person who wouldn't hesitate like that on the SRT-4 is a high school pecker wood (Case A). Or finally he would say that is a lot of performance for the money, then hesitate and do a double-take, and finally conclude hell if I'm gonna be seen in that POS and do a 180 (Case C), which is what I suspect he really is. So I suspect he just wanted to bring that shitmobile up for the sake of devil's advocate but he would never buy one, proudly or teeth gritted, for himself. Logical?

Ike

So you know better than every automotive journalist, every car enthusiast, and every Mustang owner that has praised the 03+ Cobra and new mustang? I realize you're trying to be contraversial here, and it's mildly amusing, but any hopes you may have of ever having an ounce of credibility placed on what you say is gone as a result of your moronic rants.

I can say without a doubt you've never driven an 03 Cobra, nor the new Mustang, you're simply basing your opinions on some strange dislike for certain car companies. Did some badman that worked for Ford touch you in the badplace when you were young?

By the way smartguy, it was the 99 Cobra that was overrated and Ford made good by adding extra hp to the cars (FYI;the 03+ is underrated). If you're going to make such bold statements in the future at least have some clue about what you're talking about.

Lastly, maybe someone that drives a 225hp RX-8 shouldn't be mocking another car companies inability to get HP numbers correct, and you probably didn't even get free service or $500 giftcard...

Feel stupid yet?

Ike

Not logical in the least, you see, when you twist around what someone says it's called a fallacy. He qualified his statement with "performance wise" which you have mostly ignored. If performance is high on your list of priorities it probably is the best overall car. You arguing about something being ugly is also not logical, you're making another fallacy of logic and assuming it's universally considered an ugly car and also making a statement look like fact when it is nothing but you opinion and is clearly subjective. You're also making assumptions which doesn't exactly fly, logically... You've made another fallacy in that your're disregarding someones opinion because they're young, just because some "high school pecker wood" thinks the SRT-4 is a great car does not make is false. Are we clear? Logically?

Reactionary

Not at all. Because I drove one of those shitmobiles. Knew the dude in 2003. So year the Cobra was, I don't know. It's the previous body style. Automatic. Black leather with horizontal lines on the seats. Disastrous build quality. Powerful. Would never buy one. It's ****.

Ike

Just pretending you didn't see my post probably would have been a better move. You don't know the freaking difference between a 99 and 03 Cobra, yet you insist on subjecting us to the drivel that is your opinion on cars?

Reactionary

You obviously don't understand the logical path I outlined, which is irrefutable. Not even Tom Cruise or Jack Nicholson could disprove it. You are mentioning other things that are totally irrelevant. Ask Hard8 to help you pro bono.

Your post is pretty funny actually. You overuse the word "fallacy" when you use it twice, suggesting you couldn't come up with...better alternatives. LOL. You also use it strangely in the phrase "made another fallacy," which is poor diction as well as unidiomatic.

Ike

The funny thing about logic, you can't just make up your own rules. I showed you the fallacies in you logic, then you call it irrefutable, you're brilliant!

Speed-ER doc

Cobras don't come in automatic, retard.

Ike

This isn't creative writing 101, you commited several fallacies of logic which is why I used the word fallacy more than once. Oops, I did it again... fallacy... whoops... fallacy... I just can't help myself.

Reactionary

Oh yeah, sorry. That pos was a Mach 1. Cobra is still ****. You should know. You drive one.