2008 Formula 1 Season Discussion
10-19-2008, 04:42 PM
#729
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One of the season's more boring races. I'm no fan of McLaren/Hamilton, but they do have their shat together...once again, the last race of the season should prove to be very exciting.
Even though it was always going to be a long shot, sucks that Kubica couldn't stay in the hunt.
Even though it was always going to be a long shot, sucks that Kubica couldn't stay in the hunt.
10-20-2008, 12:27 AM
#730
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Im bound to agree that it was a very boring race. A few exciting pit stops when Hamilton and Raikkonen were stopping at the same time to see who would get out first.
But otherwise it was like watching clockwork. I am a Hamilton fan though and I am pleased with the result. Lets see how Massa copes with the pressure in Brazil.
Massa at least has a home track and home crowd next race. But that might also increase the pressure on him. For Massa it is first place that matters now to build as big margin as possible, and pray that Hamilton fails to take 4 points.
I believe we will see very interesting moves from Ferrari next race.
But otherwise it was like watching clockwork. I am a Hamilton fan though and I am pleased with the result. Lets see how Massa copes with the pressure in Brazil.
Massa at least has a home track and home crowd next race. But that might also increase the pressure on him. For Massa it is first place that matters now to build as big margin as possible, and pray that Hamilton fails to take 4 points.
I believe we will see very interesting moves from Ferrari next race.
10-20-2008, 12:33 AM
#731
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This season overall hasn't been as fullfilling as I had hoped. I don't really care who wins....Having said that, I would like to see the best drivers in the best cars, and that is definately not the case this year. Massa and Kovaleinin are not even top 6 IMHO, and what the hell happened to Kimi??
10-20-2008, 09:43 AM
#732
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Yah next race is going to exciting. espeically on the first turn , probably the most scariest first turn (starting wise), due to the drop off.
Last race with Kimmi allowing Massa to pass up, it seemed like dejavu . It reminded me last year brazil race, but drivers swapped around.
also PK engineer calling Alonso to let him know Kimi car might be acting up. i found that to be strange also.
Last race with Kimmi allowing Massa to pass up, it seemed like dejavu . It reminded me last year brazil race, but drivers swapped around.
also PK engineer calling Alonso to let him know Kimi car might be acting up. i found that to be strange also.
10-20-2008, 05:16 PM
#733
FIA reveal action points to discuss F1 future
http://www.f1technical.net/news/10864
FIA reveal action points to discuss F1 future
The FIA has released the complete agenda points of the upcoming meeting, along with an explanatory letter from Max Mosley to the teams. The meeting will discuss the introduction of standard engines and other parts, but also the plans for what F1 can be beyond 2013.
Costs
The FIA believes that Formula One costs are unsustainable. Even before current global financial problems, teams were spending far more than their incomes, insofar as these consist of sponsorship plus FOM money. As a result, the independent teams are now dependent on the goodwill of rich individuals, while the manufacturers’ teams depend on massive hand-outs from their parent companies.
There is now a real danger than in some cases these subsidies will cease. This could result in a reduction in the number of competitors, adding to the two team vacancies we already have and reducing the grid to an unacceptable level. The FIA’s view is that Formula One can only be healthy if a team can race competitively for a budget at or very close to what it gets from FOM.
We should like to hear the teams’ views on this together with comments on the FIA’s proposals (set out below) and other suggestions for the measures which will be necessary if major reductions in cost are to be achieved.
Power train
2013
The FIA would like to see a modern high technology power train in 2013. We envisage a down-sized DI engine with exhaust energy and heat recovery, coupled to an electrically actuated gearbox.
However, we are completely open to new ideas. The only preconditions are (i) that the costs of development, maintenance and unit production for the power train must be an order of magnitude lower than is currently the case and (ii) power trains must be available to independent teams at minimal cost.
2010- 2012 inclusive
At present we can offer three options.
- Option 1
A homologated engine produced by a single supplier after an invitation to tender, with the current suppliers free to build an identical engine themselves (but not the gearbox), subject to rigorous controls.
- Option 2
A consortium of teams obtains an engine to current rules but at much lower cost from a single supplier. Engines from other sources to be subject to rigorous controls to eliminate differences in performance.
- Option 3
A proposal from FOTA, backed by solid guarantees, for the supply of complete power trains to independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season to include 30,000 km of testing and all on-track assistance.
2009
When the decision was taken to “freeze” the engines, certain teams asked for and got a period of time in which to address reliability problems and re-tune for 19,000 rpm. Some teams took advantage of this period to improve the power output of their engines. This was not intended. Other teams did not improve their engines, believing performance to have been “frozen”. This has produced unfair and inequitable differences in performance. The World Motor Sport Council has therefore decided that engine performance will be equalised in accordance with the 2009 Sporting Regulations in order to re-establish the position as it was when the freeze was agreed.
The FIA would like to discuss with FOTA technicians how best to achieve equalisation in a way which is fair to all and involves minimal cost.
The Chassis
The FIA envisages common parts for numerous areas of the chassis. For example, standard suspension and wheels (ie standard “corners“), a standard underbody and other parts which are currently the subject of major expenditure but add nothing to the spectacle or to the public interest of Formula One.
Other measures, such as a minimum height for the centre of gravity, restrictions on the use of certain materials or the homologation of certain major components (eg the “tub“) for a period of time, may also be appropriate. We invite FOTA to make proposals together with a time scale for introduction.
Race procedures
The FIA would welcome suggestions for changes to the rules for going racing, with a view to reducing costs. We believe that priority should be given to things which the public cannot see (eg telemetry) rather than visible parts of “the show” (eg refuelling during the race).
The FIA would also like to hear teams’ views about the distribution of garage space and space in the pit lane.
Agenda
Costs
1. The need to reduce costs
2. Budgetary targets
Power train
1. Plans for 2013
2. An interim engine for 2010 – 2012 inclusive
3. Interim measures for 2009
4. Performance differentiators
Chassis
1. Common parts
2. Other measures to reduce costs
3. Performance differentiators
Race Procedures
1. Measures to reduce the cost of going racing
2. Facilities available to teams
3. Pit lane layout
FIA reveal action points to discuss F1 future
The FIA has released the complete agenda points of the upcoming meeting, along with an explanatory letter from Max Mosley to the teams. The meeting will discuss the introduction of standard engines and other parts, but also the plans for what F1 can be beyond 2013.
Costs
The FIA believes that Formula One costs are unsustainable. Even before current global financial problems, teams were spending far more than their incomes, insofar as these consist of sponsorship plus FOM money. As a result, the independent teams are now dependent on the goodwill of rich individuals, while the manufacturers’ teams depend on massive hand-outs from their parent companies.
There is now a real danger than in some cases these subsidies will cease. This could result in a reduction in the number of competitors, adding to the two team vacancies we already have and reducing the grid to an unacceptable level. The FIA’s view is that Formula One can only be healthy if a team can race competitively for a budget at or very close to what it gets from FOM.
We should like to hear the teams’ views on this together with comments on the FIA’s proposals (set out below) and other suggestions for the measures which will be necessary if major reductions in cost are to be achieved.
Power train
2013
The FIA would like to see a modern high technology power train in 2013. We envisage a down-sized DI engine with exhaust energy and heat recovery, coupled to an electrically actuated gearbox.
However, we are completely open to new ideas. The only preconditions are (i) that the costs of development, maintenance and unit production for the power train must be an order of magnitude lower than is currently the case and (ii) power trains must be available to independent teams at minimal cost.
2010- 2012 inclusive
At present we can offer three options.
- Option 1
A homologated engine produced by a single supplier after an invitation to tender, with the current suppliers free to build an identical engine themselves (but not the gearbox), subject to rigorous controls.
- Option 2
A consortium of teams obtains an engine to current rules but at much lower cost from a single supplier. Engines from other sources to be subject to rigorous controls to eliminate differences in performance.
- Option 3
A proposal from FOTA, backed by solid guarantees, for the supply of complete power trains to independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season to include 30,000 km of testing and all on-track assistance.
2009
When the decision was taken to “freeze” the engines, certain teams asked for and got a period of time in which to address reliability problems and re-tune for 19,000 rpm. Some teams took advantage of this period to improve the power output of their engines. This was not intended. Other teams did not improve their engines, believing performance to have been “frozen”. This has produced unfair and inequitable differences in performance. The World Motor Sport Council has therefore decided that engine performance will be equalised in accordance with the 2009 Sporting Regulations in order to re-establish the position as it was when the freeze was agreed.
The FIA would like to discuss with FOTA technicians how best to achieve equalisation in a way which is fair to all and involves minimal cost.
The Chassis
The FIA envisages common parts for numerous areas of the chassis. For example, standard suspension and wheels (ie standard “corners“), a standard underbody and other parts which are currently the subject of major expenditure but add nothing to the spectacle or to the public interest of Formula One.
Other measures, such as a minimum height for the centre of gravity, restrictions on the use of certain materials or the homologation of certain major components (eg the “tub“) for a period of time, may also be appropriate. We invite FOTA to make proposals together with a time scale for introduction.
Race procedures
The FIA would welcome suggestions for changes to the rules for going racing, with a view to reducing costs. We believe that priority should be given to things which the public cannot see (eg telemetry) rather than visible parts of “the show” (eg refuelling during the race).
The FIA would also like to hear teams’ views about the distribution of garage space and space in the pit lane.
Agenda
Costs
1. The need to reduce costs
2. Budgetary targets
Power train
1. Plans for 2013
2. An interim engine for 2010 – 2012 inclusive
3. Interim measures for 2009
4. Performance differentiators
Chassis
1. Common parts
2. Other measures to reduce costs
3. Performance differentiators
Race Procedures
1. Measures to reduce the cost of going racing
2. Facilities available to teams
3. Pit lane layout
10-22-2008, 11:08 AM
#735
FIA and FOTA reach landmark agreement
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71638
By Simon Strang Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 17:03 GMT
FOTAA plan to make dramatic cost-cuts was agreed between the FIA and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) in a landmark meeting in Geneva, it was announced in a joint statement on Tuesday.
It is believed that a broad agreement was reached between FIA president Max Mosley and FOTA chiefs Luca di Montezemolo and John Howett to introduce drastic cost reductions from next year.
The joint statement read: "Today's meeting in Geneva has produced significant cost savings for 2009 and 2010.
"FOTA are working urgently on further proposals for 2010 and thereafter."
But while the statement did not detail any specific measures, autosport.com understands that four key points were agreed:
- Engine life will be increased from two to three races from 2009
- Manufacturers must be prepared to make 25 engine units available, at a cost of 10 million Euros, to customer teams
- There will be a further meeting between FOTA members in Brazil to determine testing kilometre limits for 2009, and an agreement in principal on the introduction of a standard Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) unit for 2010 or 2011. KERS is believed to remain open for teams to use next season.
- The sport's governing body and FOTA will meet again after the Brazilian Grand Prix to discuss measures to reduce costs related to chassis development and the continuation of the use of customer chassis in the future.
When asked to comment on the agreements, an FIA spokesman said it was "inappropriate to comment at this time", but described the meeting as "very positive and constructive."
One source added that the meeting had "historical" significance because it "was the first time the teams had enjoyed such unanimity" in their discussions over the sport's future direction.
By Simon Strang Tuesday, October 21st 2008, 17:03 GMT
FOTAA plan to make dramatic cost-cuts was agreed between the FIA and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) in a landmark meeting in Geneva, it was announced in a joint statement on Tuesday.
It is believed that a broad agreement was reached between FIA president Max Mosley and FOTA chiefs Luca di Montezemolo and John Howett to introduce drastic cost reductions from next year.
The joint statement read: "Today's meeting in Geneva has produced significant cost savings for 2009 and 2010.
"FOTA are working urgently on further proposals for 2010 and thereafter."
But while the statement did not detail any specific measures, autosport.com understands that four key points were agreed:
- Engine life will be increased from two to three races from 2009
- Manufacturers must be prepared to make 25 engine units available, at a cost of 10 million Euros, to customer teams
- There will be a further meeting between FOTA members in Brazil to determine testing kilometre limits for 2009, and an agreement in principal on the introduction of a standard Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) unit for 2010 or 2011. KERS is believed to remain open for teams to use next season.
- The sport's governing body and FOTA will meet again after the Brazilian Grand Prix to discuss measures to reduce costs related to chassis development and the continuation of the use of customer chassis in the future.
When asked to comment on the agreements, an FIA spokesman said it was "inappropriate to comment at this time", but described the meeting as "very positive and constructive."
One source added that the meeting had "historical" significance because it "was the first time the teams had enjoyed such unanimity" in their discussions over the sport's future direction.
10-23-2008, 03:42 AM
#736
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But it probably wont work, because my tachometer ends at 10000 rpm, not 20000.
11-01-2008, 12:14 PM
#738
Registered
Looks like a great day for Ferrari fans 
1. Massa
2. Truli
3. Kimi
4. Hamilton
Oh father, Please let Hamilton, come in any rank to get the world championship. Please dont let him do anything stupid to allow a ferrari driver to take it away from him. and watch over little susie as she looks both ways before crossing teh side walk. Amen
1. Massa
2. Truli
3. Kimi
4. Hamilton
Oh father, Please let Hamilton, come in any rank to get the world championship. Please dont let him do anything stupid to allow a ferrari driver to take it away from him. and watch over little susie as she looks both ways before crossing teh side walk. Amen
Last edited by alfy28; 11-01-2008 at 12:24 PM.
11-01-2008, 06:20 PM
#745
Surely you don't think Hamilton hit him on purpose?
I hope the best man wins and that the race will be exciting.
Paul.
11-01-2008, 06:28 PM
#746
I don't care if he hit him on purpose, that's the nature of sports and if the ref says it's allright then it is allright. For sure this has the possibilities to be the best race of the year and i'm pretty convinced that raikkonen will have a role holding hamilton down.
11-01-2008, 07:20 PM
#747
Registered
but Kimi did. did you forget the whole cutting the corner incident. when hamilton gave back the lead to kimi, and then over taken him to win the race? only for hamilton to be placed 3rd lol
11-01-2008, 07:25 PM
#748
That's what judges are for, their decision is law. And then, hitting a car or slowing it down is pretty different from just driving through a chicane with another driver trying to pass you.
Hamilton did the right thing trying to pass Kimi on that occasion, bad thing he broke the rules in the attempt.
Kimi looked much like the quarterback that forces the flag to be thrown while having troubles in that situation
Hamilton did the right thing trying to pass Kimi on that occasion, bad thing he broke the rules in the attempt.
Kimi looked much like the quarterback that forces the flag to be thrown while having troubles in that situation
11-01-2008, 07:27 PM
#749
I'm sure Hammy will be more than content sitting in 3rd or 4th and finishing the race that way. The trick would be if he's running solid times, yet falling behind the leaders as the laps click away - driving to conserve his 2nd-race-engine - and at the same time a few cars (like Alonso, Vettel, Kubica) are able to pass him and maybe give him a no better than 7th finish..now you're talkin' real excitement.
11-01-2008, 09:37 PM
#750
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I'm thinking it will be exciting for similar reasons. Massa should win running away. The real fun will be watching Alonso and Vettel chase down Hamilton. BMW is done. On the subject of BMW, media types have been criticizing Kubica for complaining about car development. After the last few races, it appears he has a valid point.