My 8 hesitation question
12-10-2008, 02:40 AM
#176
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I don't know if this is many people's first rotary but from going through this thread I think it would be worthwhile to note many things. I do not know the 8 very well you but intend on doing so through ownership but many hard lessons learned from the FD I hope can be transitioned over to the FE.
Firstly of paramount importance to the rotary is in not any particular importance:
-Exhaust backpressure
-Ignition Quality
-Lubrication Systems
-Fuel Lubricant Additives
In generating an engine which makes close to the same power from Mazda as the turbocharged 13B-Rew, Mazda looked to maximize each and every area it could all while trying to build an "affordable" sportscar, I think we can see the paradox coming.
Added to the problem of maximum performance and maximum value is that of maximum profit for service station operators. I would be curious to see the reaction the face of the Head of Service of your local stealership when you ask him what the ZDDP count is in the oil that he uses to service your rotary. Or even ask him what kind if he knows of any zinc additives used in the motor oil they use to service your car, once again eugh ahhh ummm should be the answer you receive. Probably they are using the black bottle that says Mazda 10w30 or w/e on it and that is as far as their concern extends.
For those of you wanting to learn more from someone who knows more I suggest you search 'howard coleman's oil analysis' thread on rx7club.com.
Now what does this all mean, first your local dealership doesn't have the heart/business logic combination to make informed decisions on the life of your rotary engine. Second they blame problems related with the above points I have given on user error rather than acknowledging it as service incompetence.
The use of crappy oils can be tolerated, if that is the right word in a car in which the rotating assembly bathes in oil. But in a car in which the rotating assembly injects oil and the combustion chamber sees oil injection this is unacceptable.
Shitty oil and service intervals that are too long lead to carbon deposits in the combustion chamber which means shortened catalyzer life, foul plugs, shortened injector life, seal problems due to improper seating of the sideseals and improper apex seal performance. Naturally all of this is your fault
The first step in solving your problems is to be either performing your oil changes yourself or insuring that your mechanic is using an oil that contains zddp or more than 80 (bare minimum). Also you should be premixing with a good two stroke (Idemitsu for example) and changing your plugs and coils MORE often than the service schedule calls for.
I change plugs at each oil change (3000km) or every second oil change and every 4th oil change change the fuel filter for example.
I am stunned to see the price of your coils FD coils are like 160$ EACH, at the price they are on the 8 my maitenance schedule would probably include changing them every 25,000kms.
I know there is more I want to say or maybe I am confused in what I am saying it is late
Firstly of paramount importance to the rotary is in not any particular importance:
-Exhaust backpressure
-Ignition Quality
-Lubrication Systems
-Fuel Lubricant Additives
In generating an engine which makes close to the same power from Mazda as the turbocharged 13B-Rew, Mazda looked to maximize each and every area it could all while trying to build an "affordable" sportscar, I think we can see the paradox coming.
Added to the problem of maximum performance and maximum value is that of maximum profit for service station operators. I would be curious to see the reaction the face of the Head of Service of your local stealership when you ask him what the ZDDP count is in the oil that he uses to service your rotary. Or even ask him what kind if he knows of any zinc additives used in the motor oil they use to service your car, once again eugh ahhh ummm should be the answer you receive. Probably they are using the black bottle that says Mazda 10w30 or w/e on it and that is as far as their concern extends.
For those of you wanting to learn more from someone who knows more I suggest you search 'howard coleman's oil analysis' thread on rx7club.com.
Now what does this all mean, first your local dealership doesn't have the heart/business logic combination to make informed decisions on the life of your rotary engine. Second they blame problems related with the above points I have given on user error rather than acknowledging it as service incompetence.
The use of crappy oils can be tolerated, if that is the right word in a car in which the rotating assembly bathes in oil. But in a car in which the rotating assembly injects oil and the combustion chamber sees oil injection this is unacceptable.
Shitty oil and service intervals that are too long lead to carbon deposits in the combustion chamber which means shortened catalyzer life, foul plugs, shortened injector life, seal problems due to improper seating of the sideseals and improper apex seal performance. Naturally all of this is your fault
The first step in solving your problems is to be either performing your oil changes yourself or insuring that your mechanic is using an oil that contains zddp or more than 80 (bare minimum). Also you should be premixing with a good two stroke (Idemitsu for example) and changing your plugs and coils MORE often than the service schedule calls for.
I change plugs at each oil change (3000km) or every second oil change and every 4th oil change change the fuel filter for example.
I am stunned to see the price of your coils FD coils are like 160$ EACH, at the price they are on the 8 my maitenance schedule would probably include changing them every 25,000kms.
I know there is more I want to say or maybe I am confused in what I am saying it is late
01-01-2009, 12:01 PM
#177
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Wow i think our cars are destined cuz I just had the same problem as you thumper...
Yesterday morning I tried starting the car and the same symptoms that your car had occurred...
I started it, held onto the ignition for like 2 seconds before it caught, and when it did, it was BARELY running, like the engine sounded like it was half running, the CEL started to flash, I got out of my car to take a look and there were NO exhaust fumes coming out from the back, got back in the car, it was idling really rough, started to smell smoke, opened the hood and saw some smoke coming out, put the car into 1st gear and tried to move her a bit on my drive way but the throttle was barely responding...
I had my car towed to the dealership yesterday morning, I called them this afternoon and they scanned it, but they STILL don't know whats wrong with it. They said they have to call the tech ppl at Mazda to find out what tests to do before they can find the problem...
I think that is PURE BS...what are those mechanics at the dealership good for if they don't even know how to fix one of their own cars?
So from reading your ENTIRE thread, I guess the coils and CAT needs to be replaced eh? I just had them change the plugs in july so those are still under warranty, should I ask them to change them again anyways?
Also I read that you talked them into giving you a free compression test? Should I ask them to do a compression test too and if they try to charge me I'll just argue with them explaining that it suppose to be covered?
I also read you ignition coil install post, so your girl is running like brand new again right? No more problems?
Yesterday morning I tried starting the car and the same symptoms that your car had occurred...
I started it, held onto the ignition for like 2 seconds before it caught, and when it did, it was BARELY running, like the engine sounded like it was half running, the CEL started to flash, I got out of my car to take a look and there were NO exhaust fumes coming out from the back, got back in the car, it was idling really rough, started to smell smoke, opened the hood and saw some smoke coming out, put the car into 1st gear and tried to move her a bit on my drive way but the throttle was barely responding...
I had my car towed to the dealership yesterday morning, I called them this afternoon and they scanned it, but they STILL don't know whats wrong with it. They said they have to call the tech ppl at Mazda to find out what tests to do before they can find the problem...
I think that is PURE BS...what are those mechanics at the dealership good for if they don't even know how to fix one of their own cars?
So from reading your ENTIRE thread, I guess the coils and CAT needs to be replaced eh? I just had them change the plugs in july so those are still under warranty, should I ask them to change them again anyways?
Also I read that you talked them into giving you a free compression test? Should I ask them to do a compression test too and if they try to charge me I'll just argue with them explaining that it suppose to be covered?
I also read you ignition coil install post, so your girl is running like brand new again right? No more problems?
OH MAN samething happened again guys.....
You know how cold it was last night, I tried starting it and it barely started, same symptoms as stated above from a few months ago.....
I had the car serviced at Againcourt mazda, so if its the plugs again, they will probably replace them free cuz of warranty on them (they were replaced in like Nov), but from being on this forum, I can tell that Scarb Maz is the place to take your car to...so Al, if I bring the car to you, will Scarb Maz recognize the warranty on the plugs?
I'm guessing none of the dealerships are opened today so probably have it towed on Sat. Let me know Al and I'll bring the car to you...
01-01-2009, 05:45 PM
#178
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OH MAN samething happened again guys.....
You know how cold it was last night, I tried starting it and it barely started, same symptoms as stated above from a few months ago.....
I had the car serviced at Againcourt mazda, so if its the plugs again, they will probably replace them free cuz of warranty on them (they were replaced in like Nov), but from being on this forum, I can tell that Scarb Maz is the place to take your car to...so Al, if I bring the car to you, will Scarb Maz recognize the warranty on the plugs?
I'm guessing none of the dealerships are opened today so probably have it towed on Sat. Let me know Al and I'll bring the car to you...
You know how cold it was last night, I tried starting it and it barely started, same symptoms as stated above from a few months ago.....
I had the car serviced at Againcourt mazda, so if its the plugs again, they will probably replace them free cuz of warranty on them (they were replaced in like Nov), but from being on this forum, I can tell that Scarb Maz is the place to take your car to...so Al, if I bring the car to you, will Scarb Maz recognize the warranty on the plugs?
I'm guessing none of the dealerships are opened today so probably have it towed on Sat. Let me know Al and I'll bring the car to you...
01-01-2009, 08:34 PM
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01-02-2009, 10:15 AM
#180
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OH MAN samething happened again guys.....
You know how cold it was last night, I tried starting it and it barely started, same symptoms as stated above from a few months ago.....
I had the car serviced at Againcourt mazda, so if its the plugs again, they will probably replace them free cuz of warranty on them (they were replaced in like Nov), but from being on this forum, I can tell that Scarb Maz is the place to take your car to...so Al, if I bring the car to you, will Scarb Maz recognize the warranty on the plugs?
I'm guessing none of the dealerships are opened today so probably have it towed on Sat. Let me know Al and I'll bring the car to you...
You know how cold it was last night, I tried starting it and it barely started, same symptoms as stated above from a few months ago.....
I had the car serviced at Againcourt mazda, so if its the plugs again, they will probably replace them free cuz of warranty on them (they were replaced in like Nov), but from being on this forum, I can tell that Scarb Maz is the place to take your car to...so Al, if I bring the car to you, will Scarb Maz recognize the warranty on the plugs?
I'm guessing none of the dealerships are opened today so probably have it towed on Sat. Let me know Al and I'll bring the car to you...
01-06-2009, 11:36 AM
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01-06-2009, 11:59 AM
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Dude I wouldn't do two, do all four. Don't do a dealer (sorry Al) it is crazy expensive and you can buy them new for just over $100 and it's a 10-15 min install or a $400+ dealer job.
01-06-2009, 01:39 PM
#183
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Heh... Scarb Mazda was 8 central yesterday... went to get some stuff looked at for my car (looks like I need a new CAT) and there was like 7-8 of them just sitting there..
01-06-2009, 02:24 PM
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and it went up another $110 us!!! NOT happy about that! Man what's going on lately!! So many problems it seems. Get the CAT before warranty is up
01-06-2009, 03:44 PM
#185
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Mehhhh.. for the cat I'm not really all that surprised. I don't actually think the place I bought the car from did the safety / emissions tests on the car. I think they paid someone off to pass it. Hell... the rear passenger tail light bulb was rolling around in the light assembly when I picked up the car (didn't notice until the second day I owned it)... that would normally flag a failure.
In terms of the cat... i've been getting EXTREMELY crappy fuel economy (more so then usual) ever since I got the car... would average like 225 - 275 km out of a tank... driving around at 3000rpm all day. Plus there is a noticable lack of power in first and second now... bpth. Anyways.. hopefully this takes care of things.
01-06-2009, 04:07 PM
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The coils were about $100 something each + another $100 somethign for labor+ another 100 for the scan. I got no choice but to let them do it, who am I going to ask to tow the car back to my house, plus I don't know how to install the coils.
01-06-2009, 04:11 PM
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Really? Did you pay a deposit before or what? Sucks dude.
Mehhhh.. for the cat I'm not really all that surprised. I don't actually think the place I bought the car from did the safety / emissions tests on the car. I think they paid someone off to pass it. Hell... the rear passenger tail light bulb was rolling around in the light assembly when I picked up the car (didn't notice until the second day I owned it)... that would normally flag a failure.
In terms of the cat... i've been getting EXTREMELY crappy fuel economy (more so then usual) ever since I got the car... would average like 225 - 275 km out of a tank... driving around at 3000rpm all day. Plus there is a noticable lack of power in first and second now... bpth. Anyways.. hopefully this takes care of things.
Mehhhh.. for the cat I'm not really all that surprised. I don't actually think the place I bought the car from did the safety / emissions tests on the car. I think they paid someone off to pass it. Hell... the rear passenger tail light bulb was rolling around in the light assembly when I picked up the car (didn't notice until the second day I owned it)... that would normally flag a failure.
In terms of the cat... i've been getting EXTREMELY crappy fuel economy (more so then usual) ever since I got the car... would average like 225 - 275 km out of a tank... driving around at 3000rpm all day. Plus there is a noticable lack of power in first and second now... bpth. Anyways.. hopefully this takes care of things.
01-07-2009, 11:16 AM
#188
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Well... they hooked it up to the scanner and the readouts were pooched.. apparently there's a recall or TSB or something for the issue I was having. The emissions system is under an 8 year warantee so I don't see how they could charge me for something that's still falls under that...
01-07-2009, 11:57 AM
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Really? Did you pay a deposit before or what? Sucks dude.
Mehhhh.. for the cat I'm not really all that surprised. I don't actually think the place I bought the car from did the safety / emissions tests on the car. I think they paid someone off to pass it. Hell... the rear passenger tail light bulb was rolling around in the light assembly when I picked up the car (didn't notice until the second day I owned it)... that would normally flag a failure.
In terms of the cat... i've been getting EXTREMELY crappy fuel economy (more so then usual) ever since I got the car... would average like 225 - 275 km out of a tank... driving around at 3000rpm all day. Plus there is a noticable lack of power in first and second now... bpth. Anyways.. hopefully this takes care of things.
Mehhhh.. for the cat I'm not really all that surprised. I don't actually think the place I bought the car from did the safety / emissions tests on the car. I think they paid someone off to pass it. Hell... the rear passenger tail light bulb was rolling around in the light assembly when I picked up the car (didn't notice until the second day I owned it)... that would normally flag a failure.
In terms of the cat... i've been getting EXTREMELY crappy fuel economy (more so then usual) ever since I got the car... would average like 225 - 275 km out of a tank... driving around at 3000rpm all day. Plus there is a noticable lack of power in first and second now... bpth. Anyways.. hopefully this takes care of things.
Don't know if I really wanna pay an extra $110us for them, total then is $700ish cad Shitty that is bad fuel economy!! Mine is much much worse in the winter it seems.
Well... they hooked it up to the scanner and the readouts were pooched.. apparently there's a recall or TSB or something for the issue I was having. The emissions system is under an 8 year warantee so I don't see how they could charge me for something that's still falls under that...
01-07-2009, 05:10 PM
#190
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No no deposit, but waiting list since Oct I guess it is now and told I would have them at the end of Nov. Don't know if I really wanna pay an extra $110us for them, total then is $700ish cad
Shitty that is bad fuel economy!! Mine is much much worse in the winter it seems.
That's not so bad. The quote I got just for the coils and install was $405+ tax, plus $98 scan. One guy mentioned he left it at a dealer, installed them there and drove away lol. CAA tow home, I did a write up on this thread on how to do the install. Pretty ez!
NO!! If the cat is gone it's gone, but if it's gone the warning light will be coming on. You have up to 128,000km under warranty.
What was the issue? What are they trying to charge you for?
Don't know if I really wanna pay an extra $110us for them, total then is $700ish cad Shitty that is bad fuel economy!! Mine is much much worse in the winter it seems.
That's not so bad. The quote I got just for the coils and install was $405+ tax, plus $98 scan. One guy mentioned he left it at a dealer, installed them there and drove away lol. CAA tow home, I did a write up on this thread on how to do the install. Pretty ez!
NO!! If the cat is gone it's gone, but if it's gone the warning light will be coming on. You have up to 128,000km under warranty.
What was the issue? What are they trying to charge you for?
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