EOI: Knightsports coming to Melb/Adel for ECU remapping any contenders
06-01-2007, 06:46 PM
#26
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I've listened to both points of view.
If theres a chance I'm going to be caught out with starting issues, rough running, etc which then means I have to get another overide done (at my cost), or incur down time sending the ECU to Japan...
I'll also wait .....
If theres a chance I'm going to be caught out with starting issues, rough running, etc which then means I have to get another overide done (at my cost), or incur down time sending the ECU to Japan...
I'll also wait .....
06-01-2007, 07:23 PM
#27
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Guys, sorry to the Cassandra on this, but it is important people have a clear understanding of the risks.
There are many, many reasons why further ECU reflashes will emerge from Mazda which will be irrelevent to tuning. Simply, the ECU controls so much more in the car than the tune -- also ABS, T/C, ESP and, of course, it is the hub for all the sensors -- even the a/c system. Some of these are safety critical and if a problem emerges in one of those areas, you will not have the option of putting a sticker over the port (...apart from the fact that service people never read notes left in the car, IME)
The necessary hardware should comprise no more than a laptop and the proper OBD port connector, and software to download/upload code. I would be VERY surprised if Knightsport don't have this readily to hand... and surely they would want to appoint an Australian agent anyway??
Hymee and SCO had progressed a fair way on this sort of thing...not suggesting they should be involved....just that if Knightsport are going to do the job properly, they should be offering at least this level of support.
Understand the risks, then make your decision
There are many, many reasons why further ECU reflashes will emerge from Mazda which will be irrelevent to tuning. Simply, the ECU controls so much more in the car than the tune -- also ABS, T/C, ESP and, of course, it is the hub for all the sensors -- even the a/c system. Some of these are safety critical and if a problem emerges in one of those areas, you will not have the option of putting a sticker over the port (...apart from the fact that service people never read notes left in the car, IME)
The necessary hardware should comprise no more than a laptop and the proper OBD port connector, and software to download/upload code. I would be VERY surprised if Knightsport don't have this readily to hand... and surely they would want to appoint an Australian agent anyway??
Hymee and SCO had progressed a fair way on this sort of thing...not suggesting they should be involved....just that if Knightsport are going to do the job properly, they should be offering at least this level of support.
Understand the risks, then make your decision
06-01-2007, 07:44 PM
#28
The necessary hardware should comprise no more than a laptop and the proper OBD port connector, and software to download/upload code. I would be VERY surprised if Knightsport don't have this readily to hand... and surely they would want to appoint an Australian agent anyway??
Hymee and SCO had progressed a fair way on this sort of thing...not suggesting they should be involved....just that if Knightsport are going to do the job properly, they should be offering at least this level of support.
Understand the risks, then make your decision
Hymee and SCO had progressed a fair way on this sort of thing...not suggesting they should be involved....just that if Knightsport are going to do the job properly, they should be offering at least this level of support.
Understand the risks, then make your decision
knightsports should give their dealer the laptop software and flash hardware so unforseen problems can be fixed in minimal time. Japan and back for a fix or Mazda flash loosing the tune would be a waste of money unless the cost is insignificant >$500.
06-01-2007, 08:01 PM
#29
Hmmmmmm.........
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timbo, points noted, and IF there is a critical safety issue then a) Mazda will let you know about it and b) you will have to make the decision of taking that flash and overwritting your KS one, ie you wont be gonig back to the KS flash as it wont have the "Critical safety issue" as part of it.
Also, Hymee and sco were talking about this 12 months ago and still nothing. That should tell you how much effort this takes and how well places like RB and KS have done to get something working. RB dont do world tours, hell they wont even take a non-USDM ecu. KS are now on their 3rd country helping out. Maybe they didnt invisage the popularity of something like this.
As fdracer has said, he will be approaching KS about getting the flash unit/system here. fdracer, I would suggest you ask them before they get here so that people can be assured before they make their decision.
Cheers
Andrew
Also, Hymee and sco were talking about this 12 months ago and still nothing. That should tell you how much effort this takes and how well places like RB and KS have done to get something working. RB dont do world tours, hell they wont even take a non-USDM ecu. KS are now on their 3rd country helping out. Maybe they didnt invisage the popularity of something like this.
As fdracer has said, he will be approaching KS about getting the flash unit/system here. fdracer, I would suggest you ask them before they get here so that people can be assured before they make their decision.
Cheers
Andrew
06-02-2007, 12:43 AM
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Timbo has brought up some excellent points; and we really need to get a good appreciation on the level of risk involved.
An ECU revamp would be greeted by anyone, but therein lays a certain point in time when you will hear that word "No" when you go in for a warranty claim. Any deviation in original Mazda stock theoretically opens the door to get your warranty knocked back.
Let’s face it, most of us would love the upgrade but I doubt if I could find one RX-8 owner who wouldn't be concerned on back up or warranty issues. I’ve also considered that upgrading engine performance without an improved exhaust system could also cause stress in other areas as well.
I'm not suggesting that KS are a fly by night company, but the reality is that people change jobs all the time, and companies can go under, so your back up could be gone in one week. And even if the company is still around, a gentleman's agreement or written on paper is not worth a pinch of #$%*if your transmission is blown!!!
The only way I could see KS allaying these fears is if they could somehow drop their price ($1,200 is a lot of money) or provide a device would cost $500 and restore the default factory settings as well as download the performance profiles, but they can't happen. They also need to pay the bills including their trip out to this country.
I know some of you have gone to a lot of work and time to pull this thing together and for that I still say go for it....but I'm not willing to take the risk and then pray nothing will happen. Whilst some maybe OK, having to get additional funds to pay for repairs for an engine failure out of pocket would also hurt!
Having said that, if there was some more reassurance I'd love to become a customer ... the upgrade offers increased performance and there are some positive testimonials out there to justify the efforts. You either have faith in them or not... but I'm not putting my 40K+ investment at risk without a safety net.
You can put me in the category of those who talk and dream about it, but with very little precedence and research regarding the mod in this country, I’m not prepared for the risk even if the price is reduced.
I need to be able to sleep well at night not worrying about problems for the sake of some extra performance, and for a bloke like me who finds it hard enough to stay under the speed limit...my 8 has enough power for me!!!
An ECU revamp would be greeted by anyone, but therein lays a certain point in time when you will hear that word "No" when you go in for a warranty claim. Any deviation in original Mazda stock theoretically opens the door to get your warranty knocked back.
Let’s face it, most of us would love the upgrade but I doubt if I could find one RX-8 owner who wouldn't be concerned on back up or warranty issues. I’ve also considered that upgrading engine performance without an improved exhaust system could also cause stress in other areas as well.
I'm not suggesting that KS are a fly by night company, but the reality is that people change jobs all the time, and companies can go under, so your back up could be gone in one week. And even if the company is still around, a gentleman's agreement or written on paper is not worth a pinch of #$%*if your transmission is blown!!!
The only way I could see KS allaying these fears is if they could somehow drop their price ($1,200 is a lot of money) or provide a device would cost $500 and restore the default factory settings as well as download the performance profiles, but they can't happen. They also need to pay the bills including their trip out to this country.
I know some of you have gone to a lot of work and time to pull this thing together and for that I still say go for it....but I'm not willing to take the risk and then pray nothing will happen. Whilst some maybe OK, having to get additional funds to pay for repairs for an engine failure out of pocket would also hurt!
Having said that, if there was some more reassurance I'd love to become a customer ... the upgrade offers increased performance and there are some positive testimonials out there to justify the efforts. You either have faith in them or not... but I'm not putting my 40K+ investment at risk without a safety net.
You can put me in the category of those who talk and dream about it, but with very little precedence and research regarding the mod in this country, I’m not prepared for the risk even if the price is reduced.
I need to be able to sleep well at night not worrying about problems for the sake of some extra performance, and for a bloke like me who finds it hard enough to stay under the speed limit...my 8 has enough power for me!!!
06-02-2007, 02:39 AM
#31
Hmmmmmm.........
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Trevor, not sure if you got this impression, but no one is thinking any less of anyone who doesnt want to do this for any reason.
However while everyone is entitled to an opinion, I am just not overly impressed when people start dwelling on the trivially negative and in the same breath complain/point out that the 8 lacks what most of the industry readily has and has had for years. Especially when its in a thread about someone trying to help us get over this hump.
A way forward on the issue of local support was addressed by fdracer. We will just have to see how that pans out.
All that being said I personally wouldnt be expecting anyone with warranty left to be thinking about doing this. I am considering doing it as its later in the year and I will have only 6 months of warranty left.
Cheers
Andrew
However while everyone is entitled to an opinion, I am just not overly impressed when people start dwelling on the trivially negative and in the same breath complain/point out that the 8 lacks what most of the industry readily has and has had for years. Especially when its in a thread about someone trying to help us get over this hump.
A way forward on the issue of local support was addressed by fdracer. We will just have to see how that pans out.
All that being said I personally wouldnt be expecting anyone with warranty left to be thinking about doing this. I am considering doing it as its later in the year and I will have only 6 months of warranty left.
Cheers
Andrew
06-02-2007, 06:32 AM
#32
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Apologies if I have sounded "trivially negative" but I was just pointing out the risks associated with what was on offer. 
Also, please don't have too high an expectation about performance results arising from remapping for N/A cars; the reality is that there's not much to be gained relative to the FI world, where a flash tune can address timing, boost, and fuel-specific maps with quite spectacular results. This is why not much has been seen for the 8. It is a good thing Knightsports is at least coming to Australia...and by all meanstake up the offer, but with eyes wide open!
Also, please don't have too high an expectation about performance results arising from remapping for N/A cars; the reality is that there's not much to be gained relative to the FI world, where a flash tune can address timing, boost, and fuel-specific maps with quite spectacular results. This is why not much has been seen for the 8. It is a good thing Knightsports is at least coming to Australia...and by all meanstake up the offer, but with eyes wide open!
06-02-2007, 07:46 AM
#33
Hmmmmmm.........
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Timbo, sorry if I came across a bit agro, uninitentional I promise. Unfortunately this thread is reminiscent of the TurboXS saga, thats what I am trying to stop.
I thought I pointed out my expectation quite well 
. And yep, I am aware of the gains bias N/A v FI.
The problem I have is that someone has offered to come here and provide a service that no one else has been willing or able to do. I used the word trivial as I believe what you were pointing out was fairly obvious, ie should go without saying, and therefore just doomsaying. Its not specific to the KS offering for the RX-8, its applicable for anyone who flashes your ecu regardless of vehicle make/model.
Cheers
Andrew
Originally Posted by auzoom
Just had a nice long talk with Jason.
First thing is to checkout https://www.rx8club.com/far-east-asia-38/knight-sports-coming-town-112288/.
Taka, Melb date is 7th August.
The process is a dyno tune one, so its not just a flash and go away. They tune the flash to your car. Jason metion that you should only expect around 10hp gains. The fan mod should gain you about a 5deg drop in temperature.
Jason, I am interested.
First thing is to checkout https://www.rx8club.com/far-east-asia-38/knight-sports-coming-town-112288/.
Taka, Melb date is 7th August.
The process is a dyno tune one, so its not just a flash and go away. They tune the flash to your car. Jason metion that you should only expect around 10hp gains. The fan mod should gain you about a 5deg drop in temperature.
Jason, I am interested.
. And yep, I am aware of the gains bias N/A v FI. The problem I have is that someone has offered to come here and provide a service that no one else has been willing or able to do. I used the word trivial as I believe what you were pointing out was fairly obvious, ie should go without saying, and therefore just doomsaying. Its not specific to the KS offering for the RX-8, its applicable for anyone who flashes your ecu regardless of vehicle make/model.
Cheers
Andrew
06-04-2007, 12:25 AM
#34
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Guys, no need to panick. The chances of having any problems after having KS tune individual cars on the dyno are very slim. They have done this a thousand times , they know the workings of the Rx8 and its ecu inside out. They are rotary world class experts, and are one of only 2 Japanese rotary experts to flash tune the rx8.
Its not as if we are talking about a generic chip tune company that dabbles in all makes and models.
Further, they will be individually tuning each and every one of our cars on the dyno, further lessening the chances of problems
This is a very special offer, that will not come up again I would think.
All I wanted to know was what our options were in the unlikely event that something wasnt quite right , no matter how remote a possibility, and we needed some technical assistance locally to rectify.
Worst case senario,confirmed, is to have car reflashed by Mazda, restoring car to pre KS tune. End of story. This does not represent doomsday or enormous risk .
Those who are waitung for Cobb tuning to come out with a handheld flash unit and tune for our local cars will be waiting forever, as having spoken with cobb on a few occasions , they have confirmed that their flash unit is NOT compatible with our ecus, so no possibility of future tune .
Regards
Rexi
Its not as if we are talking about a generic chip tune company that dabbles in all makes and models.
Further, they will be individually tuning each and every one of our cars on the dyno, further lessening the chances of problems
This is a very special offer, that will not come up again I would think.
All I wanted to know was what our options were in the unlikely event that something wasnt quite right , no matter how remote a possibility, and we needed some technical assistance locally to rectify.
Worst case senario,confirmed, is to have car reflashed by Mazda, restoring car to pre KS tune. End of story. This does not represent doomsday or enormous risk .
Those who are waitung for Cobb tuning to come out with a handheld flash unit and tune for our local cars will be waiting forever, as having spoken with cobb on a few occasions , they have confirmed that their flash unit is NOT compatible with our ecus, so no possibility of future tune .
Regards
Rexi
06-04-2007, 12:51 AM
#35
Hmmmmmm.........
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Rexi, well said however on the cobb front, I have been trying to get a definative answer from them for a few weeks now and haven't been able to. WHere are you getting your details? All I have seen is that they confirm different ecu's across different countries and that they havent released flasher for non us WRXs.
I live in hope :p
Just to add, the guys in Malaysia with Euro ecu's have had this for a month or so and no reported issues so far. Jason just mentioned that he has sent a few ecu's to Japan to help them prepare for our ECU's.
Cheers
Andrew
I live in hope :p
Just to add, the guys in Malaysia with Euro ecu's have had this for a month or so and no reported issues so far. Jason just mentioned that he has sent a few ecu's to Japan to help them prepare for our ECU's.
Cheers
Andrew
06-04-2007, 04:06 AM
#36
I have been investigating aftermarket stand alone systems to piggyback. currently the microtech is the only "affordable" system that can run the rx-8 crank trigger.
I'm sceptical on whether the motec can read the trigger properly as well. hymee mentioned a few things and I have not seen a wiring diagram for the rx-8 e-shaft sensor. I did come across a rover K series sensor which is almost the same as the rx-8 and the motec info said it could run a rotary but only in batch fire not sequential. sequential isn't really necessary but it's a step backwards from std. haltech, wolf can't.
from what the American interceptor users mention; while it's good for boost is isn't so great off boost. for a full custom tune the KS flash looks like it is the way to go if you don't want FI.
I'm sceptical on whether the motec can read the trigger properly as well. hymee mentioned a few things and I have not seen a wiring diagram for the rx-8 e-shaft sensor. I did come across a rover K series sensor which is almost the same as the rx-8 and the motec info said it could run a rotary but only in batch fire not sequential. sequential isn't really necessary but it's a step backwards from std. haltech, wolf can't.
from what the American interceptor users mention; while it's good for boost is isn't so great off boost. for a full custom tune the KS flash looks like it is the way to go if you don't want FI.
06-04-2007, 04:33 AM
#38
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Having "been there- done that" before with the JC Cosmo & FD RX-7 ECU's upgrades, I can tell you there is no need to panic.
The beauty about the flash tune is that it can be done in "real time" to suit the individual car. With the 8-bit & 16-bit ECU upgrades I have had on my previous cars, this has beena potential hit & miss affair as it required a RAM + EPROM upgrade each time.
Was fearful at first but the Japs are prefectionists so when they came back, I plugged them into my cars & Bingo!! Never missed a beat.
Even more confident with the 32-bit ECU & its real time flash ability as its soooooo easy to change things around if required.
There is no need for you girls to be scared of any of this. Just make sure you have the latest recall flashes or whatever from Mazda & enjoy the KS upgrade.
If Mazda haven't sorted the ECU programming on these cars after 4 years, they never will. On another note. I doubt if any Mazda tech can tell you have a KS fuel/Ign map installed if you take your RX-8 into the shop for any warranty issues either. There may be log file showing the date of last access but the mechanic will just dismiss that as a visit to another dealership.
REgards
The beauty about the flash tune is that it can be done in "real time" to suit the individual car. With the 8-bit & 16-bit ECU upgrades I have had on my previous cars, this has beena potential hit & miss affair as it required a RAM + EPROM upgrade each time.
Was fearful at first but the Japs are prefectionists so when they came back, I plugged them into my cars & Bingo!! Never missed a beat.
Even more confident with the 32-bit ECU & its real time flash ability as its soooooo easy to change things around if required.
There is no need for you girls to be scared of any of this. Just make sure you have the latest recall flashes or whatever from Mazda & enjoy the KS upgrade.
If Mazda haven't sorted the ECU programming on these cars after 4 years, they never will. On another note. I doubt if any Mazda tech can tell you have a KS fuel/Ign map installed if you take your RX-8 into the shop for any warranty issues either. There may be log file showing the date of last access but the mechanic will just dismiss that as a visit to another dealership.
REgards
06-04-2007, 04:41 AM
#39
it would probably work for FI, but there is no density compensation for the manifold pressure like a MAP based system. the MAF also doubles for air temp. if the the MAF is before the pressurising device it will measure mass air flow but not the correct temperature.
06-04-2007, 05:40 AM
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06-05-2007, 01:58 AM
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06-05-2007, 02:14 AM
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As for going back to Mazda & getting "flashed" back to the original fuel/Ign map. Its hard to say.
All dealers would have been issued the latest & greatest RX-8 program from Mazda Australia & have it on CD or ready-loaded onto the WDS machine. If you know a guy at the dealership, then chances are you can do a deal & have it uploaded for a couple of Beers.
If you dont know them, then its up to your powers of negotiation to talk them down from their original "where here to screw you" price. Personally, I would be talking "I just purchased it" & "can you check my car for the most recent RE-flash" or "The other dealership will do it for under $100" etc etc etc.......
You all showed you have some flare for something different when you purchased your RX-8's. Yet, what l am reading shows the restraint/fear of a Toyota or Lexus buyer. I think Jason (REVS) would want to say....................... "Come on in, the waters fine"
REgards
06-05-2007, 03:04 AM
#46
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06-05-2007, 07:22 AM
#48
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Right right right... ok... you want some sort of party after the tune.
Do the Knight Sport people expect it big ???
I will do my best to find some "venue"
Do the Knight Sport people expect it big ???
I will do my best to find some "venue"
