BVD

L&L Amen to that.

Also:

I know it sounds as if I’m in full blown “It’s not my fault – it must be Mazda” denial mode, but I’m perfectly willing to accept that something I did, (or didn’t do) may have contributed to what happened.

It’s just that, as I was following what was apparently normal recommended procedure, and the problem still occurred, I’d rather like to know why. I don’t want to go through all this crap twice, particularly all the towing the car to the dealer stuff (why can’t they just send a van out with a booster battery, a fresh set of plugs and a half way decent mechanic if it’s a simple case of flooding??)

If there are some special dos, don’ts or caveats with the Rx8 - and Mazda is prepared to tell me so – and also why that’s so with an RX8 and not any other car, then I’ll follow them.

No amount of key-rings, caps, pens and glossy PR crap in the mail can make up for the lack of clear honest technical information from Mazda.

I’ve tried before to get sensible technical truths out of Mazda and got nowhere. On two or three matters, including asking for a straight answer on why and HOW my brand new car suddenly emitted a large cloud of smoke as I was driving it home for the very first time, and why it filled the carport with smoke when I next started it.

Mazda have been nothing short of useless and evasive on all questions I’ve put to them. Fortunately, the dealer staff have been good. They have been constantly helpful and informative both from the service department and the sales people. But of course, Mazda don’t tell their dealers everything either.

Sorry guys. End of rant.

Lock & Load

BVD

Having RX8 on the back of tow trucks must be the worst type of advertisement for any car dealer , the publics confidence in the product gets totally eroded .

BVD you should not feel guilty for ranting its better then bottleing it inside .

cheers
michael

timbo

Er, BVD, what was this all about? I'm sorry if you've mentioned this before but it's the first I've heard of it. What exactly happened? Anyone else? Sounds like it flooded then, or maybe there was a wodge of junk somewhere in the system

Tim

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - That was news to me. Sounds like an overactive oil injector!

Gomez

I have no Pre-Renesis rotary knowledge so this is the first I've heard this. I'm unaware of any brand new RX-8's being flooded, and a new first time rotary driver would surely be a prime stall/flood candidate in the first weeks of ownership. The "X" factor is why the rash of flooding now??

Do we have a problem with the 8 as it "ages"? AMG reported a strong smell of fuel when his car stalled. If a leaky injector had half filled the combustion chamber while the car was shut down, a lot of fuel would have been pumped into the exhaust as the car was cranked. Hence the smell.

The non-return fuel system, a system no other fuel injected rotary has, could be failing to dump pressure when the car is shut down. The in-tank fuel pump is a complex bit of kit. Not only a pump, it has a 56psi regulator, a low pressure filter, a Hi P filter, and a jet pump (venturi pump that draws fuel from the sub tank). This system was designed to reduce evaporation of fuel in the tank by eliminating hot excess fuel being returned to the tank.

The whole shebang gets replaced at your 60K service.....that service will cost you a cool grand.

This car is so complex, it could be anybloodything, dirty fuel, dicky injector, low battery voltage, overly sensitive PCM......It would be nice to have someone from Mazda on here.....We did have a guy who posted 3 times and was in a service dept....where did he go??

Go"still flummoxed"mez.

Gomez

Old news, overfilled with oil by the dealer(s) (two) prior to delivery....You young blokes, Sheesh.

AMG

you reckon you've got something to complain about.

Last year a friend of mine had his 4 month old Maseratti written off by two young over enthusiastic mechanics.

Gomez

hope it was a yellow one......

AMG

For L&L's sake, we'll call it yellow


LOL!

BVD

Impressive! There's a man with a mind like a steel trap... oh wait a minute, I see from your avatar that you're wearing the steel trap Gomez. No wonder no facts ever escape that highly retentive mind of yours.

Yep, the story I was given was that it had been overfilled by the original dealer (the dealer I bought it from sourced from another one who had allegedly already done the preps on it.)

Driving proudly home, and easing it up to about 5,000 rpm when - COUGH - it suddenly stuttered and blew a large cloud of white smoke out the back.

Got home, let it cool off, and then restarted to get another large cloud of smoke in the carport. At the time, one of the forum members here had just been promised a new car because it leaked coolant - producing a somewhat similar looking cloud. So it was a bit of a worry. It also was now producing a steady burble of smoke on tickover - like a small bonfire of wet leaves...

Took it back to the dealer, who were most apologetic, drained, refilled oil correctly etc. But nobody could explain to me exactly how a small amount of extra oil (it appeared only slightly overfilled if at all) could go from the sump into the intake, or why it ran smokeless for the first few kilometers.

My first guess at the time was along Hymee's lines - stuck or overactive injector. However, someone on the tech forum I think, suggested that the breather system could possibly suck the oil up into the intake tube once the pressures and general conditions hit a certain point.

There's also been a fair bit of discussion from owners who've had a pool of oil build up in their air intake tube under 'normal' use - to the point where their air filters were soaked in oil. There was a fair bit of chat about what causes that too.

Anyway, my calls to Mazda (polite and enquiring) received nothing but limp PR waffle. Either they had no idea how their engine really worked, or they weren't about to connect me to anybody who did.

However, I must admit..... my car is yellow....

And the upside of the incident was that they gave me a 323 to drive while they fixed it, and we liked it so much we bought my wife one. We've been delighted with it too, even though it's ...cough.. red... Is there a message here..

Lock & Load

Gomez

You said you were unaware of brand new RX8 flooding salesmen at mazda have complained of brand new cars flooding when being shifted around the dealership floor , even though they have warmed up the engine , they also complained that batteries die after a few days of not using them .

This sales person or dealership will not be named by me because his the only contact i have who is prepared to be thruthfull about the downside of the RX8 .

cheers
michael

AMG

Michael, the battery issue could be due to the fact that the car is not being run for a while and people are opening and closing doors, looking at the dash lights, listening to the radio.........all producing a drain on the battery.

I've had my 8 sit idle for up to 3 weeks with no drain on the battery.

Choppy

L&L it is time you buy a yellow

If you think that your RX8 has let you down and Mazda has let you down then selling your rx8 and buying something else is the best thing for you..

The car has many positives and a few negatives. If we are going to keep slamming the car for its few negatives then we might as well sell all our cars soon as the resell value later will be up to **** because of out constant slamming.

Yes the car has a flooding problem for some, but you can not say it is for all. I agree Mazda should keep us informed but do you think they are going to go out of their way to tell you that something is wrong with your brand new car.

Chances are they will hook it up to their update computers in the service departments and try fix the problem through the cars computer if possible.

My girlfriend has been waiting for 2 months for a speaker for her BMW that blew for no reason at all. Everytime she calls they give her some other reason why they dont have it yet. And when i call i was told they have not even ordered it. Point is at least Mazda is making the effort to update some of the known problems of the car and trying to make it better.

Not just saying stuff you, we won car of the year sales went up a notch and now you have to live with a lemon.. Thats far but the truth.

Every new car has its problems.. if you expect a call centre from Mazda to support you then you are dreaming, I agree on the 24/7 road side assistance for flooded engines BUT then again Mazda does not have to offer you this.

The reality is that a new model will be prob coming out soon with all these problems taken care of or marketed in a different way from the last and this will be another sucess for Mazda, lets just hope that things are compatible and we get a share of the new technology in the newer models.

Regards
Phillip

timbo

Well, as promised, I tried to replicate the conditions that might cause my car to flood this morning, as it is in having its 30K service.

Cool morning - 2C - backed out of garage, stalled it by applying handbrake. Restarted straight away. Switched off and left for 5 mins, Restarted straight away. (I'm a pov pack -- and it's red )

So whatever the cause it is intermittent, and doesn't even seem to relate to the age of the car, or the PCM calibration (currently on "E", recalibrating to "G" at service today).

An injector problem, and/or fuel pump problem, as Gomez describes above, may be the cause.

Made me think about fuel, and just throw in that perhaps the advent of these events now may coincide with the arrival of winter fuel mixes??

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Timbo,

Maybe - just maybe, your avatar holds the answer!

Hehehe. Red Pov. Packs that have been "run in properly"

Sorry to take the seriousness of the the conversation. But it is incredibly intriuging. It will be great if/when we ever find out the cause, and the solution.

So far, my '8 has been like all my other Mazdas. Hop in, start it, drive it.

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

LOL, yeah, "running in properly" could be the answer. People, head for your nearest and soonest track day :D :D

Lock & Load

choppy

Thanks for your wordly advice , however if i do sell my collectible YELLOW coloured RX8 , i will probably wait till the new PORSCHE BOXSTER IS released some time in 2006 .

And yes most likely i will go for YELLOW .

cheers
michael

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I just hope, for your sake Michael, that one of your prospective "collectors" hasn't been reading the forum everytime you flame the Mazda and/or the RX-8.

labrat

I don't know if this is an RX-8 urban myth, but I have heard that flooding can be avoided/ameliorated if you switch the ignition on, then wait a few seconds so that all electronics (including oil injectors?) are initialized before proceeding to twist the key through to the start position. Anyway, I recall reading it somewhere, and that's what I do. I also sprinkle holy windscreen wiper fluid over the car (blessed by a guy at the Mazda dealership), and mumble a secret incantation. Starts like a charm every time.

As to weak batteries, well, it doesn't hurt to check the levels in between services. I found the cells nearest the motor to be lower than those closest to the front (figures, doesn't it).

Sorry to hear that L&L will be leaving us soon when he takes delivery of his Boxter - what can I say? Except to note that the Porsche version of yellow is sort of a custardy colour, a bit like an overripe snot block (vanilla slice to the unitiated).

Choppy

Exactly!

timbo

Labrat, might you care to enlighten us in relation to summer/winter fuel differences?

BTW, I agree on the start procedure: don't run the starter until all the buzzes, blink, clicks etc stop

Tim

Choppy

ohh and

http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/Porsche.html

labrat

Hi Timbo. Unfortunately, I'm not a fuels chemist, but I believe that the refiners increase the amount of more volatile, lower boiling point components (shorter chain hydrocarbons) in fuels destined for colder climates in winter. This can assist in cold starting. These components are reduced in summer fuels or those destined for hot areas to reduce vapour locks in fuel lines. I guess that's an ideal situation, and doesn't account for practical items about servo tank maintenance, and the actual provenance of the fuel (which refinery it came out of and when)

Gomez

HahahahaROFL..... Unitiated, adj; One who behaves like a unit, a person of limited intellectual capacity....

Good one Centurian, like it, like it....! Post of the day to labrat...!:D

Edit: Er, sorry....., I am tired after a late night! However, if this was an intentional mispeling, I am awfully impressed labrat......

BVD

Timbo,

I admire the spirit in which you, Hymee and others have attempted to reproduce the problem – at risk of some considerable inconvenience to yourselves. Impressive.

The fact that you can’t make it happen, even when you do the known ‘wrong’ things is very interesting information in itself, and certainly seems to point towards another internal ‘X factor’ that needs to line up with the known stuff.

There’s two section to this, which I’d like to know more about:

1) Why is the car prone to flooding in what seems like a rather quirky manner, and what exactly is the combination of conditions that produce it? And

2) Why is restarting such a big deal? Flooding a car doesn’t usually require trips on trucks back to a dealer. Usually, leaving a car for a few hours – or removing the plugs and drying them out if you’re in a hurry – does the trick. The help line guy thought that maybe the ECU kills the system if it doesn’t start after 2 or 3 tries, to protect against some possible problem if it does fire up with vapour in the wrong places. In which case it might need to go back for a reset. But that was just one of our guesses in the course of chatting, not official info. (Also it doesn’t seem to fit with Jax8 starting his car by towing it round the paddock).

I asked the service manager over the phone why they were so hard to restart and his reply was a sort of verbal shrug and “platinum plugs” – which are apparently very sensitive to getting wet. He didn’t seem to think that oil had played a part in fouling them. Maybe that’s the top and bottom of the restart difficulty?

But why the truck trips? Does the computer do some kind of shut down if the initial start attempts don’t work? Perhaps Mazda is just keen for all cars with any problems to be hooked up to the diagnostic machine so that they can gather information in their preferred way. Anecdotal stuff from owners saying “I did this, and I didn’t do that” sometimes isn’t always reliable.

Ah well, the workshop is doing some other checks and fixes while they have it, and I’ll get it back tomorrow, so I’ll see if they can tell me any more then.