kwescott

Casey, could you submit a pic of the RX8 cup logo, with a large number off to the right, or even behind the two outlined cars....to see what it would look like. quarter windows may be easier to use the static cling on...?

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iTrader: (1)

I would say just make one on a magnet that we could put on the back of the trunk. Nothing crazy just a nice logo with maybe where you finished.

I hate static and except for the month around natls perfer not to have stickers on for daily driving.

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iTrader: (1)

No smack huh:

kwescott is Online:
Taking over BSP illegally

Before you take over BSP why don't you work on catching B Stock.

kwescott

Yeah, definately wasn't thinking of stickers...that is a big commitment for something only once a month. Magnet is a good idea...just a but more pricey (but more durable) alternative.

kwescott

no, that "taking over BSP...Illegally" came up earlier today when Jason (MP5) called me out on a question I posed in another thread. I asked a guy how he got away with running in B-stock with a MS Wing. The whole class restriction thing bums me out...cause I would like to eventually do a national event, or pro-solo..but don't even want to attempt competing in the class my car SHOULD be in (SM/SM2 is it?).

I can't expect to catch all of B-stock, just some of it. (No smack intended that is)

mp5

Heh, you guys and your rice decals.

There's another problem with the 801, 802, 803 idea... a bunch of those #s are already taken. I will probably join a club and get a real number for next year. Maybe 806 or something I already have magnets for.

We should be talking about more serious issues, like how we are gonna run indexed next year since you guys are too quick with the BSP setup. Sorry, you should've sandbagged...

kwescott

I get killed in the index though....I had a faster raw time than Jennifer, but she killed me in Pax. I wasn't that far behind Jason, but I think he was in the top ten.

Here's my thinking for next year. Run straight up raw times, but give bouneses if you finish..let say (plus 5 point) for top ten, (plus 3 for top 50)....so on. This would give you BS guys an advantage..of sorts.

mp5

We don't have to use SCCA's index, maybe we could go half way and split the difference. I understand that your cars aren't fully prepped for BSP...

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iTrader: (1)

Your car is in SM and you would have been 2nd in class on Sunday, class was won by a DSP BMW driven by a girl. The point is at a natl event you are going to get killed in BSP or SM. In BSP at a natl event you will have Jason Uyeda in his S2000 and Harold Olson (norcal guy past BSP champ) in his Vette and they will crush you. In SM you will have Vic Sias and Bob Tunnell in M3s kicking your @ss. The good news is even at a natl event you will only have a couple of fast guys in each class, the rest is the same local guys you run with anyway.

imho you guys should switch to SM next season for the local stuff. The class is twice the size of BSP, I think it is always more fun to run with a larger class, you also need faster cars to push you to get faster.

kwescott

I know I'm definately not interested in pulling my body kit off...and I also know I don't like getting my a$$ beat by the same group of 10 guys every event. (this was the reason for the expense on wheels/tires to get out of STU) If it is one or two guys, that is fine...but an entire class...what is the point. Like you said, I would get stomped at a national event regardless of what class I am in...it is just frustrating to know that regardless of how much practice I get...I would not be able to compete (realistically), in the car I have.

two good events back to back doesn't a career make. I'll see how I finish out the last two events to see if I can be consistent. I love the way the car is handling right now. I can't even think of anything (other than an alignment) that I could do to make the car more competitive (just more experience for the driver). I really don't want to put a race alignment on a daily driver I put 30,000 miles on yearly, especially with a set of 19 inch tires to replace.

Guess I'll just be a local guy.

I would love to do SD more, but I am worried that I may get called out in BSP for the body kit.

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iTrader: (1)

You gave up on STU way to soon. So far the STU cars are way off the pace they should be, they need to beat BS heads up. There is no reason an RX8 can not win STU, it is a way better car than the M3 and they were 2nd and 3rd at natls. You are still new at this and no matter if you run BS/STU/BSP/SM at a natl event you will get beat. As fast as mp5 is getting he knows what a natls beat down feels like. You can not build/spend your way around driver skill in any class. It takes time, I started in 93' and did not win a natl event till 98', I have had lots of beat down handed to me. If you show up at a tour/pro and run your car in the wrong class and know it you deserve to get called out and if you were to trophy it would happen. Do you really think doing this one year with a car that is not fully setup you will stroll in and start winning? The fact that you are not beating BS should tell you it is not the cars level of prep, cause you have way more than a BS car, so don't worry about where you would finish in SM and work on driving.

Trust me I hate pax, I think it is a joke, it favors certain cars depending on the course design. However the fact is if you want to have a series for all RX8s you need some way to balance it for prep level, unless you are just trying to give yourself a trophy.

The current pax works out like this:

BS .822
BSP .843
SM .845
STU .820 f***ing joke

BS car runs a 60.0 (pax 49.3) a BSP car to be even needs to run a 58.5 (49.3) and a SM car only has to go 58.4 (49.3). Only about a tenth difference between SM and BSP and that is not much considering the extra mods you can do.

What I might suggest is coming up with two index numbers to be used for next season. One for a stock RX8 on street tires, one for a BS/STU RX8 and the raw time for SM/BSP RX8. Then no matter who shows up and what ever level of prep they have a shot. We can use past results to guess at what it should be.

I am thinking the index should work out along these lines based on a 60 sec course:
stock on street tires 60 sec X .95 index = 57.0
BS/STU 58.2 sec X .98 index = 57.0
BSP/SM 57.0 sec

That lets the stock guy on street tires go 1.8 slower than a BS/STU car and lets the BS/STU guy 1.2 slower than BSP/SM. Not as harsh as PAX but I think in a good range.

kwescott

I think a modified index would work, and the one you propose is fair.

Do we want to try and see what it looks like on the final two events this year to see how it plays out. (of course we would finish the year out in BSP so Casey can win his trophy)...

Also, do we want to have an index for ladies....we have two ladies that feel they are not competitive...and a third lady (jennifer) who would more than benefit from an index given that she doesn't race consistently...sort of a rust factor index??? May I suggest a .93 for the ladies?

Do you guys like the additional bonus point idea...based on overall PAX finish?

mp5

This is going to get messy...

Are past national champs exempt from the index? I have a feeling that would change once a BSP car beats Jason.

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iTrader: (1)

I would say go back for the year and run the index on all the events to see how it works out, the bigger sample will give us an idea of if we are on the right track. No reason to change for the last two events, just use it for next year.

NO way I would go for an ladies adjustment..... Make a pink rotor for them and have a ladies cup.

No need for bonus points if we have a fair index.

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iTrader: (1)

No reason to change it if that happens... I will just get them DQed for running in BSP with SM wings.

kwescott

oh, we all know that jason will win regardless of index or not...this is making is even for everyone else.

kwescott

a ladies cup would be a bra, right?

mp5

What a conundrum... try to beat you the next 2 events and screw up the index for next year, or lay down and give up 2nd? Maybe the decision will be made for me and I'll lose anyways.

kwescott

I would love to have the RX8 Cup "2" flying on the back of my car regardless of what you do. Whatever you decide, leave it for a surprise. I love surprises..

speeddemon32

wow... this thread did get a little crazy.

ummm.... where to start....

I dont think I ever said that I thought I could go to a natinals and win. (I have no desire to even think of going with how far behind we are) the sheer fact that I have a BSP prepped car and am not running faster then a BS car right there shows that I am FAR FAR FAR from running what BSP should be running. we have simply been gettign lucky that no "real" BSP car has shown up and whooped us. I have never forgotten this.

everytime you BS guys with your smaller tires, no springs, no flywheel.. ect lay down an amazing number that we cant even come close to, reminds me that we are far behind, and need more track time.

Yes we have stupid little wings that do abslutly nothing to enhance the times on our runs. yes they are not legal in the class we are running. (for VERY stupid reasons.) if someone were to get butt hurt enough to complain to an official and they take our points away, then so be it. I will start taking my wing off. it's really not that hard. but for someone to complain at a local event would suprise me. now on the other hand, I would never try pulling something like that off if I WERE to do a more serious race. I would simply pull the wing off. but that is so far in the future, it really does not matter right now.

the reason we/I run BSP rather then SM is due to the feeling of knowing that your car is in the wrong class for what you were building for. (I am not talking about the wing). Yes I understand that we are not at the BSP times we should be at, but we are even furthar from the SM time that should be running. so yeah I guess it would be an ego thing. I dont want to run with cars that SHOULD spank me just because I have a little wing that is laying flat and does nothing) at least in BSP if I get beat it's because of me as a driver... I am ok with that. if I were to run SM due to my wing, I would be wanting to put a 3 rotor in, or a turbo. I would always have the feeling of "well to HELP keep up I need to do as much as I am allowed in SM because my car is not good enough" (as with the driver)

it would be about like you guys being forced to run BSP because you had a short throw. pretend Keith and I are running faster then you. you KNOW your a better driver then us, but your tires are not as big as they could be. wouldnt you have the feeling of "well crap my tires are not as big as they could be, if only they were bigger"... well crap, I can put a flywheel on... pulley, intake... ect.

I know I should not be so worried about that right now, and just worry about track time and skills. but thats what I am working on now. I am ok with getting beat because I suck as a driver, but I dont want the car to be all that far behind ALSO. (yes I know my crappy springs are a hold back. but like keith and his body kit, I am not willing to take them off. that is somehting i will have to live with.)




as for the points next year. yes I agree that you BS guys are getting screwed. us BSP cars are getting close (Keith mainly) and with the big *** tires it's not fair. I think next year an index like you talked about Isley would be perfect. it caters to us all well. the true street tire guys get a fair chance just like the rest of us. the only down fall is that keith and I are behind you guys already... this will just make it worse. but all well, it truly is fair to everyone.

for this year, lets just finish it out and start with the new points next year.


the RX-8 cup decals, I was thinking about just a static cling on the rear quarter windows. I didnt mean a sticker earlier.

kwescott

I'm in agreement with that Casey. I will continue to run BSP in Fontana...mainly because it is a realistic class for both of us, and if Cesar, Loren or Denward ever decide on joining, that would be the class they would be in. Another reason for changing classes, was to run with someone else, and not be out their by myself at each event...plus, the tires are just so cool. I never knew r-compounds existed before being introduced to them by Jason and Jason....never knew about autocross either.

So, I guess....in the future, I will be more knowledgeable about things I should, or should not to do a vehicle...to keep it in the right class...but for right now....the RX8 is the best car I've ever had, and it is fun for me, both on the street and on the auto-x course.

RX8 cup static clings would be cool...index will be fair for everyone, for next year.

***note to Kaliken...we normally are not this active about points and such...it is just that we are approaching the end of the first season of the RX8 Cup, and there is always room for improvement and making things more fair for everyone.

speeddemon32

he he he...... I couldent even finish reading your post.. I had to say how funny I found your new title.

now back to reading your post.

speeddemon32

yes and this would make it much more fair for Kaliken allong with everyone else.

I also want to add that of course I am very thankfull that the Jasons have helped me as much as they have. they have always told me things I should know even if I dont want to hear them. (like the crappy sprint springs). without them I would have struggled a whole lot more then I have with what I can do to my car, what brands I should use... yada yada yada. I look forward to learning as much as I can from them both. I also look forward to learning how to drive from them. this is really somehting I need to learn more on. we are very fortunate to have someone as skilled as Isley taking us under his wing. (cone Jason, your great to!)

my main point was that at a local event someone would have to be pretty butt hurt to complain about somehitng does does not enhance your times what so ever. the body kit does nothing but add 100 pounds. the wing laying flat at autocross speeds is not efective. these are stupid rules (to a point. I think it's to keep people from using Carbon Fiber parts, but I personally think the rules should just say "no CF body parts). I dont feel like we should move up a class just for body parts. but again, if someone does complain, then so be it. if you want to play their game, you have to play by their rules.

speeddemon32

I dont htink they were saying go back to STU on street tires. I think they more want you to move into SM.

mp5

Remember guys, it's all about having fun.

I try to not focus so much on winning, but on improving and having fun... you kind of have to think that way when you get beat by the champ all the time. BTW, there are some teams looking for 4th members in the SCNAX cup deal this weekend. Sounds like a lot of fun... I get to drive an S2000, an Elise, and *cough* a bone-stock Civic. I encourage you both to get some runs on those tires.