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Mechanical Changes On RX-8 Series I to II

Old 01-05-2009, 09:52 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by PotatoSoup View Post
Will there be any benefit to using premix on the '09+ now that there is an injector dedicated to the center of the apex seal?
Yep, I am with my Series II, the day I drove it off the showroom floor with 9 KM (15 miles) on the speedo, I went to the servo and added my 2 stroke and topped the fuel off.

I am using 180 Mils (Amsoil S Pro II) per 60 litres, or 3 mil per litre, which is about 6 ozs per tank.

Yes, I know I have the extra nozzle but I agree with MM, knowing Mazda they again have probably taken the conservative route and cut back the amount of oil metered when compared to Series I, but, I am only guessing here.

I look at it as that little bit more protection.

Ask a Mazda Dealer mechanic about Pre-mix and they go..."what's that", no you don't need that.... Blah Blah Blah.

BTW: My oil consumption is not that high so far, I am still running her in "Racing Beats Guidelines" at about 4000 RPM max, but I have only done 1300KM (800miles), I have given it a few squirts up to 5500 RPM.
I will start to climb more once I hit the 2000KM mark (1200 miles), I always run in my new cars.

Last edited by ASH8; 01-05-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:16 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by olddragger View Post
increased oil pressure?
OD
The reference oil pressure values of the Renesis are:

2002- : 50,8 psi, 212F oil temp, 3000 rpm
2009- : 72,5 psi, 212F, 3000 rpm
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:28 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
Hi, Can you direct me to your source, if it was the WS manual what page category number please..
Sorry I can't. I've got it from the european online service information site (called MESI) in a Mazda service shop.

2002-
4. Run the engine at the specified speed, and note the gauge readings.

• If not within the specification, inspect for the cause and repair or replace if necessary.
Note
• The oil pressure can vary with oil viscosity and temperature.
Oil pressure (reference value)
350 kPa {3.57 kgf/cm2, 50.8 psi} [3,000 rpm, Oil temperature: 100 C {212 F}]
2009-
7. Run the engine at the specified speed, and note the gauge readings.


• If not as specified, inspect for the cause and repair or replace if necessary.
Note
• The oil pressure can vary with oil viscosity and temperature.
Oil pressure (reference value) [oil temperature: 100 C {212 F}]
500 kPa {5.10 kgf/cm2, 72.5 psi}[3,000 rpm]

Last edited by ayrton012; 01-06-2009 at 08:25 AM. Reason: called MESI
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DMRH View Post
Series-II chassis drivetrain

Front cross member - foam filled as per 07 run out models (40th Ann version)
LSD - Revised design
Gearbox - Revised design (aka NC MX-5)
Gear level - shorter throw
Wheel/tyre combo - 18" = 22.7kg - 19" = 21.4kg
Steering control arm - link assy raised 7.5mm
Underbody - additional paneling - CD reduction to "0.30"
Shocks - Type-RS/GT Bilsteins, revised mounting points

Visual changes are well known now & easily spotted.

REgards
All S2's have foam-filled front cross-member and Bilsteins? I thought that was just the Special Edition cars (Shinka, 40th Anniv, R3).
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:26 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by shipdriver View Post
All S2's have foam-filled front cross-member and Bilsteins? I thought that was just the Special Edition cars (Shinka, 40th Anniv, R3).
Yes, Only the R3 (GT in Australia, UK and Europe) have the Foam Filled Front Cross Member and the 4 Bilstein Shock Absorbers.

Also has the Recaro Seats (that are Not Electric), no leather inserts.
Front Aero Bumper that has a more sculptured look and side splitters.
No Electric Sunroof
Side Sill Skirts
Rear Spoiler
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:49 PM
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over 70 oil pressure!!---dang---i like to see them do that with a 5w/20 oil --lolololol
thanks or the info man--appreciate that!
if they get that pressure with a 5w/20 there are some MAJOR changes in the system.
OD
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:51 PM
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After reading this whole thread, it makes me "kinda" wanna trade my 05 in for the 09.

Since the update to the engine, gear box, and other stuff alone kinda worth the price for me (I just dont like the new "look" of R3)

hmm...
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:23 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by nycgps View Post
After reading this whole thread, it makes me "kinda" wanna trade my 05 in for the 09.

Since the update to the engine, gear box, and other stuff alone kinda worth the price for me (I just dont like the new "look" of R3)

hmm...
in person the front grows on you.

beers
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:05 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by olddragger View Post
over 70 oil pressure!!---dang---i like to see them do that with a 5w/20 oil --lolololol
thanks or the info man--appreciate that!
if they get that pressure with a 5w/20 there are some MAJOR changes in the system.
OD


All of the oils, which are preferred by Mazda has to reach the reference pressure value (212F,3000rpm). If it's not true, they don't know what they say (at Mazda). I hope they are not idiot.

...and the preferred oils ( at all of the diff. parts of the world) for the new renesis by Mazda:

Grade API SG, SH, SJ, SL
ACEA A1, A3, or A5 API SG, SH, SJ, SL API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF2, GF3, GF4 API SG, SH, SJ, SL
ILSAC GF2, GF3
Viscosity (SAE) 5W30 10W30 40, 30, 20, 20W20, 10W30, 10W40,
10W50, 20W40, 15W40, 20W50,
15W50, 5W20, 5W30, 5W40 40, 30, 20, 20W20, 10W30, 10W40,
10W50, 20W40, 15W40, 20W50,
15W50, 5W20, 5W30
Remarks Mazda genuine Dexelia oil e.g.


There are xxw-20 oils.

Strange, but as I looked after the preferred oils info, I found a sentence on the site (You have to know it's the freshest european service info site.) :

Because engine starting performance could worsen, do not use either synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil.

..so I have to say they don't know really what they say!
As we know there is on the market their new full syn 0w-30 oil for the Renesis. More strange that we can't find the 0w-30 oils in between the preferred oils.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:21 AM
  #110  
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Please lets not talk about OIL GRADES again, there is enough oil information already in this forum.

Thanks for the info though..
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:29 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by ayrton012 View Post


All of the oils, which are preferred by Mazda has to reach the reference pressure value (212F,3000rpm). If it's not true, they don't know what they say (at Mazda). I hope they are not idiot.

...and the preferred oils ( at all of the diff. parts of the world) for the new renesis by Mazda:

Grade API SG, SH, SJ, SL
ACEA A1, A3, or A5 API SG, SH, SJ, SL API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF2, GF3, GF4 API SG, SH, SJ, SL
ILSAC GF2, GF3
Viscosity (SAE) 5W30 10W30 40, 30, 20, 20W20, 10W30, 10W40,
10W50, 20W40, 15W40, 20W50,
15W50, 5W20, 5W30, 5W40 40, 30, 20, 20W20, 10W30, 10W40,
10W50, 20W40, 15W40, 20W50,
15W50, 5W20, 5W30
Remarks Mazda genuine Dexelia oil e.g.


There are xxw-20 oils.

Strange, but as I looked after the prefer
red oils info, I found a sentence on the site (You have to know it's the freshest european service info site.) :

Because engine starting performance could worsen, do not use either synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil.

..so I have to say they don't know really what they say!
As we know there is on the market their new full syn 0w-30 oil for the Renesis. More strange that we can't find the 0w-30 oils in between the preferred oils.
funny mazda, there is no 0w oil that's purely mineral based. same thing for 5w20.

sure mazda knows all. they made the engine. what do I know ...
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:30 PM
  #112  
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So now it's starting performance that's the reason for not using synthetic. How many times has the story changed?
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:57 PM
  #113  
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My story on synthetic has never changed! Don't be afraid to use it.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:25 PM
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they will NEVER get a 70 oil pressure at 212 F and 3K out of a 5w/20 oil!! Never--unless the system is major changed!
OD
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:18 PM
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next thing I know is that if u use Synthetic, they will tell us to go buy a civic.

Anyway, Series II's sale is pretty bad. Hmm, if I go trade in now (when Im back to NYC actually), will I get some exceptional deal ? say, 5K under invoice ?

Last edited by nycgps; 01-07-2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:23 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by rotarygod View Post
My story on synthetic has never changed! Don't be afraid to use it.
I know your opinion RG. I'm on 0w-30 since 2004.

they will NEVER get a 70 oil pressure at 212 F and 3K out of a 5w/20 oil!! Never--unless the system is major changed!
OD
That changed! The Renesis II has brand new oil pump.
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:48 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by rotarygod View Post
My story on synthetic has never changed! Don't be afraid to use it.
Do you still like Royal Purple and Havoline?
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
Do you still like Royal Purple and Havoline?
I like Extra Virgin Olive oil. anybody with me ?

I like R3's "inside", I hate the "outside" grrrr ...
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:42 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
Oil Pumps have changed..

N3H1-14-100A Series I
N3R1-14-100A Series II
1. It would be good to know, why they raised the oil pressure?
a,Were there bearing wear issues with the lighter oils ( xxw-20)?
b, Or did it for the better cooling? As we know if the oil flow is higher, then the oil and the engine's internal parts would be cooler.

2. Also would be good to know did they raise the bypass valve's opening pessure? I don't find this data. If they raised it too, i think the reason was the "b,": the better cooling.
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:58 AM
  #120  
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Yes, there have been many Rotor Bearing wear issues (Worn down to copper sleeve) seen in rebuilds...

Many here think it is the 5W20, the 20 being that the grade of oil is too thin for high temps, better to use a 5W30.

IMO a higher pressure oiling system would move the oil quicker/faster/stronger, therefore moving through the improved oil coolers quicker resulting in lower temperature oil which has to be a good thing.

Fred, RG, may be able to verify my view, or correct me...

Again I prefer not to start an oil grade discussion again here or synthetic for that matter.

Just on the reasons for a higher oil pressure system.

I will try and get a reference (Mazda Part Numbers) for the Oil Pressure By Pass Valve to see if it has changed, IMO I think it would have.

It appears that there are Many, many changes (more than I thought) to the new 09 RX-8.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:48 PM
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oil pressure info would be interesting---i had that worn thru the cooper front bearing thing on a 50K engine.
Your ideas are sound.
I wonder what the pressures are at 8-9K?
OD
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:39 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
Do you still like Royal Purple and Havoline?
Yep I've never waivered there either. Those are still my favorites although I do like others.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:54 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
Yes, there have been many Rotor Bearing wear issues (Worn down to copper sleeve) seen in rebuilds...

Many here think it is the 5W20, the 20 being that the grade of oil is too thin for high temps, better to use a 5W30.

IMO a higher pressure oiling system would move the oil quicker/faster/stronger, therefore moving through the improved oil coolers quicker resulting in lower temperature oil which has to be a good thing.

Fred, RG, may be able to verify my view, or correct me...

Again I prefer not to start an oil grade discussion again here or synthetic for that matter.

Just on the reasons for a higher oil pressure system.

I will try and get a reference (Mazda Part Numbers) for the Oil Pressure By Pass Valve to see if it has changed, IMO I think it would have.

It appears that there are Many, many changes (more than I thought) to the new 09 RX-8.
1.Just a little more on oils So now the oil is thicker at same using condition, and even the pressure is higher , so maybe it's time to use xxw-20 oils in the RENESIS II.

2. I only find the REN I. oil bypass valve data. It opens at 78-92,5 psi.
As we discussed earlier there had to be min. 50,8 psi oil pressure at 3000 rpm, 212F.

Now the REN II. reference data 72,5 PSI, 3000 rpm, 212F. As we know the average oil temp is lower than 212F, so we would reach too early the bypass valve's opening pressure, with the "old" bypass. From this reason there has to be a new bypass valve with higher opening pressure, if they really want to improve the flow at high rpms!
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:32 PM
  #124  
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i always wondered, if the fuel system is returnless, was it imposible to add metered oil supply lines to the fuel rails and just forget the oil injectors?

it would be like high-tech premix!
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:49 PM
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i now can think of a reason for just 4 fuel injectors----less fuel pressure needed. Maybe this requirment would also allow the pump to have a more affect on the venturi system?
OD
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