Mechanical Changes On RX-8 Series I to II - Page 3 - RX8Club.com

Notices
Series II Technical and Trouble shooting Discuss technical details for the Series II RX-8 and any issues or problems you are facing

Mechanical Changes On RX-8 Series I to II

Old 01-03-2009, 04:14 AM
  #51  
Hmmmmmm.........
 
auzoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
Preliminary exploration into the subject has so far revealed that the metering oil is still controlled by only one load-based and one throttle-based table.
So, any difference between the two pumps will be accomplished by the pumps themselves.
Didnt see this response initially. I understood the first part, that while we have the new EMOPs, they are controlled in the same old way, ie depending on the load and throttle position determines the amount of oil metered. With the second part, are you saying that the only other differences are the actual pumps themselves, ie SI = Brand X (which just happens to be mechanical) and SII Brand Y (Which just happens to be Electric).

Also, why would they go for 2 pumps instead of one? They are downsizing on the injectors...maybe to pay for the extra MOP

Cheers

Andrew
auzoom is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:18 AM
  #52  
Polish-American Hammarrrr
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK, so I'm clearly not an expert on rotaries, but in regard to the 2 EMOPs, maybe Mazda have been doing some studying and analysis of the RENESIS over the years and have noticed that the two rotors/housings exhibit some differences in wear or heat issues over time.

By having an individual EMOP for each rotor/housing, maybe they can account for differences between the two (dynamically, precisely tailoring oil flow across all 6 injectors) that may not be possible with one pump?

By that I mean, for example, maybe for some particular load/throttle combinations, the rear rotor is being metered, say, 4% more oil than the front rotor.


Also, hooray for this thread + sticky!

Last edited by PotatoSoup; 01-03-2009 at 11:26 AM.
PotatoSoup is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 07:17 PM
  #53  
Hmmmmmm.........
 
auzoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thats what I would have figured, but based on MM's post about this, I would have assumed that in order to meter the pumps independantly you would have 2 seperate tables which they dont.

Also, SII only has 4 injectors

Cheers

Andrew
auzoom is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 07:48 PM
  #54  
Polish-American Hammarrrr
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by auzoom View Post
Thats what I would have figured, but based on MM's post about this, I would have assumed that in order to meter the pumps independantly you would have 2 seperate tables which they dont.

Also, SII only has 4 injectors

Cheers

Andrew
Yes, 4 fuel injectors and 6 oil injectors, if that's what you mean.

Last edited by PotatoSoup; 01-03-2009 at 09:33 PM.
PotatoSoup is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 10:43 PM
  #55  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Has anyone verified that it is actually two physical MOPs?
I haven't. I only know about the PCM end of it.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:24 PM
  #56  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
You didn't see this from earlier in the thread,,,? Courtesy of Ash8

Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:30 PM
  #57  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Erick - I sincerely want to thank you for that excellent technical contribution.
Unfortunately, I was not aware of that particular technical drawing or its presentation here on this forum.

I consider this elucidation of the subject to be most welcome and the clarification of the matter is, in my view, absolute in light of this particular bit of added information.

Last edited by MazdaManiac; 01-03-2009 at 11:41 PM.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:32 PM
  #58  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
When he says it like that I don't know whether he's being sincere or sarcastic. It's the exclamation point at the end.
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:40 PM
  #59  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Easy_E1 View Post
When he says it like that I don't know whether he's being sincere or sarcastic. It's the exclamation point at the end.
Lol.

Edited.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:52 PM
  #60  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
Erick - I sincerely want to thank you for that excellent technical contribution.
Unfortunately, I was not aware of that particular technical drawing or its presentation here on this forum.

I consider this elucidation of the subject to be most welcome and the clarification of the matter is, in my view, absolute in light of this particular bit of added information.
Your very welcome Jeff. I don't know how you could have overlooked this bit of information. But it's always a pleasure to help out a fellow die hard like my self.

I just about spit my drink all over my keyboard with that comment.


Anyway if you need help with anything else Jeff, don't hesitate to ask.
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:53 PM
  #61  
Zoom-Freakin'-Zoom
iTrader: (5)
 
swoope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: orlando, fl
Posts: 14,580
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Easy_E1 View Post
When he says it like that I don't know whether he's being sincere or sarcastic. It's the exclamation point at the end.
going to go with both for a thousand alex!

beers
swoope is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:12 AM
  #62  
Hmmmmmm.........
 
auzoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PotatoSoup View Post
Yes, 4 fuel injectors and 6 oil injectors, if that's what you mean.
Doh!
auzoom is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:15 AM
  #63  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
According to the above diagram,, the two OMP's appear to share a common union. Seems they both rely on the same oil source.
I find it funny that I can only find 4 outlets for the oil injectors on the pumps. Where are the injection lines for the other two.?
I know Mazda loves these vague pics but is there another pic with the injection lines in relation to the pumps?
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:22 AM
  #64  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
Confirmation only attached on page 2 of 3 so far in this thread...
I don't have time to read everything - I count on the concise synopsis of people like Easy!
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:23 AM
  #65  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
METERING OIL PUMP RESISTANCE INSPECTION.

1. Disconnect the metering oil pump No1 and No2 connectors (2 terminals).
2. Measure the resistance between terminals A-B using a Tester.

* If not within the specification, replace the metering oil pump.

Metering Oil Pump No1 and No2 standard resistance.
3.6 - 4.1 OHMS ( Temp 20 oC / 68 oF)

Source: 2009 RX-8 WS Manual.

I have not checked the Parts Manual, but it appears if the EMOP's are defective you renew the complete unit as there are no serviceable components.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:25 AM
  #66  
Hmmmmmm.........
 
auzoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Easy_E1 View Post
According to the above diagram,, the two OMP's appear to share a common union. Seems they both rely on the same oil source.
I find it funny that I can only find 4 outlets for the oil injectors on the pumps. Where are the injection lines for the other two.?
I know Mazda loves these vague pics but is there another pic with the injection lines in relation to the pumps?
Is it possible that the outer injectors share an outlet hose?
auzoom is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:33 AM
  #67  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
I don't have time to read everything - I count on the concise synopsis of people like Easy!
Thank you, thank you,,, thank you very much

Takes a bow..
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:36 AM
  #68  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by auzoom View Post
Is it possible that the outer injectors share an outlet hose?
It should show up as an intermediate connector in the pic,, some where I would think.

I would like to see,, "01-11-14 Hose removal note".
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:36 AM
  #69  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Easy_E1 View Post
I find it funny that I can only find 4 outlets for the oil injectors on the pumps. Where are the injection lines for the other two.?
If you look very carefully at the right pump on that diagram, it shows two outlets.
They just didn't want to show double banjo fittings on that diagram, so they used a split line to designate two identical connections.
Compare this to the left pump.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:41 AM
  #70  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
If you look very carefully at the right pump on that diagram, it shows two outlets.
They just didn't want to show double banjo fittings on that diagram, so they used a split line to designate two identical connections.
Compare this to the left pump.
I see now says the blind man. Thanks Jeff. We're doing good here tonight.
Where would they be with out us?
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:42 AM
  #71  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
Lubrication

Here is the only other Diagram I can find of the EMOP and the Oil Tubes (as Mazda call them), the rest you have already seen, the manual does not show the Oil Tubes on their own or in a completed series or circuit.

I am sure the Parts Manual would show in more detail.

There is a supply hose that goes from one EMOP to the OCV (No. 10) Oil Control Valve, located by the Water Pump/ Front Timing Cover.

Attached Thumbnails Mechanical Changes On RX-8 Series I to II-mazda.jpg  

Last edited by ASH8; 01-04-2009 at 12:47 AM.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:42 AM
  #72  
Banned
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under my car
Posts: 16,386
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Easy_E1 View Post
I see now says the blind man. Thanks Jeff. We're doing good here tonight.
Where would they be with out us?
I dunno. Take a look at the pile-up in the Pettit threads, I guess.
MazdaManiac is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:49 AM
  #73  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
I am sure the Parts Manual would show in more detail.
I get most of my info from the parts dept on computer. Manuals are great but if you want detailed pics,, you hope. Then the parts descriptions are a must have.

Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
I dunno. Take a look at the pile-up in the Pettit threads, I guess.
Nope.
Easy_E1 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:53 AM
  #74  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
ASH8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,612
Thanked 146 Times in 104 Posts
Originally Posted by Easy_E1 View Post
It should show up as an intermediate connector in the pic,, some where I would think.

I would like to see,, "01-11-14 Hose removal note".

As shown on page 2 of this thread...unfortunately there are no other complete pics of the Oil Tubes in the WS Manual.

The Hose Removal Clamp/Fitting is related to the hose interconnection of the two EMOP's, sorry I just cant find any more diagrams for you.


Last edited by ASH8; 01-04-2009 at 12:56 AM.
ASH8 is offline  
Old 01-04-2009, 01:02 AM
  #75  
Registered
iTrader: (2)
 
Easy_E1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 7,675
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post

sorry I just cant find any more diagrams for you.
Thanks for what you have posted up. I'm sure everyone appreciates it as much as I do.
Easy_E1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Mechanical Changes On RX-8 Series I to II


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.