RotorManiac

guys, come on, of course a hollow bar is not as stiff as a solid bar...
stiffness also depends on the tube wall thickness. MS sways are stiffer than stock because the tube's wall is thicker...

mlx8

Diameter has a greater effect on stiffness than hollow vs. solid.

My guess would be that crowbars are rarely if ever "hollow" because they are also frequently known, or referred to as breaker bars. A common use of the bars is hammering on things, for which the greater mass afforded by a solid bar is a desireable benefit/design goal in most cases. That's not to say some fire department, some where doesn't have a rack of expensive hardened aluminum bars sitting around. I'm pretty confident the RB bar on my car is hollow, if not hallowed. Next time I'm under there I try tapping on it with a hammer to see if it sounds hollow.

Say, what schools do you all go to anyway? Any chance you'll all graduate? :-)

Kurt Bob

What I should have stated is that they are stiffer per unit of mass. In any case, shopping for solid sway bars is easier because the thicker bar is normally always stiffer. With a tubular bar, the outer diameter and wall thickness both have to be considered.

youngpit

i got greddy

zerok1d

anyone know how much the MS spring and shock kit would cost to buy and install?

playa78

interesting... I got Whiteline sways fitted. they are solid. I can tell you that they don't make the car feel heavier and the performance is awesome.. the car corners o much flat compared to the stocks. all in all great and a must mod.

Spin9k

What playa78 said. I have Whitline adjustable sways in my 8 now and it has changed the personality of the car from tentative and leaning at the limit to solid confidence. The car stays flat, the suspension can do it's work better at higher cornering speeds.

One additional point about sway bars in general, that is argueably of over-riding importance here. That is the quality / type / torsional profile of the steel used. Sway bars are not magic, they are simply springs unwound ... and all steels are clearly not created equal. Just like springs, sways can be made from steel that will fatigue over time, or just not have good torsional characteristics at birth. Worse, it's virtually impossible to tell good from bad, except by relying on the good name of the producer of the sways and have faith in their engineering dept. That's why I went with Whiteline.

Good solid sways are as good as good hollow sways. It's the design that goes into them that counts more. Solid sways are approx ~30% stiffer than eguivelent hollow bars of same diameter. What you give up in weight (9.4lbs exactly for both bars in my car over stock) you get back in performance. Sure you can just make a hollow bar bigger, but there are limits to fit within the suspension. Solid design gives you an additional way to obtain certain torsional characteristics, that's all.

If that additional weight bothers you, just lose 10lbs elsewhere in the car.

RotorManiac

I like the fact that yours are adjustable... can you please give more details: thickness, price and where did you get them from? A link might help

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I know the Whiteline bars are available in the US. Do you or any of the aussies here know anything about the Ric Shaw bars which are also adjustable?

Spin9k

Here's your link https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/swaybars-racingbeat-vs-whiteline-53509/

Lock & Load

Heres direct link .http://www.whiteline.com.au/default....=/swaybars.htm

Ihave these on my ride they are great i have the adjustables front and rear.

cheers
michael

RotorManiac

sweet, thanks
heh, I have some reading to do...

freewebster

in regards to solid sways being stiffer than hollow ones--

it's not always the case. I think when you are dealing with the same construction material, that ideology applies.

I just installed a set of the Tanabe swaybars this weekend and the car handled amazingly. After reading several of Alex Cisneros' posts and experience with these sways, I decided to buy them.

http://www.tanabe-usa.com/stabilizers/

According to to Tanabe's website, their swaybars are chromemoly, which is a little bit stiffer and lighter than the regular mild steel ones out there.

Tanabe's swaybar felt pretty light, but it sure did wonders for my car. I definitely recommend them to anyone looking to auto-x their car or just upgrade the handling

Genom

I can say from driving them one after the other that the tanabe's are stiffer front and back than the RB

RotorManiac

Spin9k good write up for your sways!
I want to answer to your question about weights. I'll do it here, cuz this is a more recent thread.

I have the MS and the very light (both are only 2-3lbs heavier than stock). All other parts of suspension is stock for now. Unfortunately, that's the only thing they are good, being light, because body roll is still there... It's less, but its there!
For me, MS should have produced stiffer endlinks and/or bushings to complete the package. Oh, and they are a bit pricey too...

Have you weighed yours? I have the accurate weights for the MS, I checked before installing them, if you want I can look them up just tell me...

Does anyone know if a non-adjustable sway bar can be made adjustable? I know:o not the best thing to do, but drilling 2 more holes might do the job
will stock endlinks hold the stress?

Thanks

Spin9k

Thanks! And yes I weighed the OEM and the Whiteline:

-------OEM---WL
front...5.8...12.6 bar is same diam as OEM, only solid 27mm
rear....2.2....4.8 bar is larger than OEM, 18mm solid vs. 15.9mm hollow
______________
......... 8.0...17.4 adds 9.4 lbs of sprung weight (less maybe 400 grams unsprung weight added per wheel)

What I get from those specs is the bars are made to - overall - decrease front understeer balance toward neutral significantly, and flatten front-rear whole body roll appreciably. My butt handling meter says the same - it flat out makes the car so much more fun! :D

Also I feel the polyurethane bushings make a sig dif in the 'crispness' of response. The stock ones were way flabby, the polyurethane ones very rigid in comparison.

I'm not an expert, but the task to convert to adjustable is probably not easy. Even if the 'pad' that the hole is on is big enough for two/three holes, a non-adj would already have one whole smack in the middle. Otherwise some welding might work...but then sways aren't that $$ to bother IMO.

EZZY

like my fellow aussie 8 owners, im proud to say that i have the whiteline adjustable front and rear sway bars as well.
it def. transfered the car to another level in the suspension/handling department. when i first got it back on the road, and around twisty bends, the 8 held itself very well, alot less bodyroll and felt safer going around the corners. very happy with whiteline's research and development.
for a small price, there is a huge improvement.... even though i didnt pay for it :D
the whiteline sway bars available in non-adjustable and adjustable types.

RotorManiac

Nice
they are a bit heavier but they have a good effect, car stays flat!
the MS are very light but I think, right now for me, a set of HKS or TEIN coilovers will do the job much better:o Then I'll get rid of the body roll...

Here are the specs:
MS front 27.3mm diameter weight 2.9kg (6.4lbs)
MS rear 17.3mm diameter weight ~1.1kg (2.4lbs)

while weighting the rear the balance wasn't stable, reading between 1.0-1.1kg
if only I could find some stiffer bushings too... the MS bars will probably fit with the whiteline bushings :o

freewebster

I'm going to email Tanabe about their specs. I'll see if I can get the inner and outer diameters, or even the actual spring rate of the bar. If the bar has enough space on the mounting end point, you can probably drill a hole, but i really wouldnt suggest it. You'll probably break a few drill bits that might fly out and poke you in the eye

I think adjustable end links with a nicely balanced bar is the way to go. Right now the Tanabes handle great, and I probably wont need to adjust them, but the urge to tinker is a bit overwhelming :D

edit:

Good point on higher spring rates eliminating body roll. That will definitely do the job, and theoretically the higher you go, the less you will need an anti-swaybar...

I think a good compromise would be to conservatively raise the spring rate for the added stability, and then have a stiff bar to take the brunt of managing body roll. Too high of a spring rate and the wifey get's mad as you bounce all over the road on your street car

Spin9k

I think you are correct. What came w/mine would probably work. I'd just forward the spec to Whiteline and ask them for matching bushings. They can't be very expensive. Their bushings are as different as night and day compared to stock. literally, the OEM felt like a toilet stopper, that soft. The Whiteline's were superball hard.

Since you are dealing with higher twisting forces with aftermarket bars, stock bushings must become somewhat ineffectual and just give, wasting torsional force allowing the bar to simply move away, rather than bracing the chassis aginst the suspension. This would likely slow initial chassis movement and steering crispness.

Check out the pics below, yellow is Whiteline

jowettw

how hard is it to adjust the Whiteline adjustable sway bars?

would it be worth the extra cash to get the adjustables ?

Thanks.

Spin9k

In the front, take the wheel off, you need a torgue wrench and a hex wrench. Pull one nut/bolt, move it to the other position. Maybe 5 min a side, max. Rear can be done wo/wheel removal, but it's easier if you do. Same time. For the little extra $, why not, one more thing to adjust to your specific taste and driving style, if you are so inclined.

jowettw

thanks for the reply! probably gonna go non-adjustable route though as i'm a lazy bastard as it is.

did you get stronger/polyurethane endlinks to go with the Whiteline bars? are they necessary?

thanks!

Lock & Load

They come stock with urethene bushings and no you wont need endlinks the stock ones are fine i would only consider changing them if you go racing on track .

cheers
michael

RotorManiac

nice photos!
tell them 'there's a desperate fella in europe with MS bars looking for bushings...can he get some from you?"
hehe :D spin9k if I end up getting them, thanks to you, I'll hang a pic of you in my car.... really...
oh and if they reply to you please feel free to pm me