Blacknightz

Hey Guys,

I have some minor search on titles and around the web... The only available find in the forum is this...

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...rear+brake+kit


and the ones in the web are Rotora... Stoptech... They are true rear big brake kit calipers (4-port) but all of them deletes the parking brake...


I would like to know if any of u guys are interested in getting a 4-pot rear big brake kit for the 8 that still retains the use of our OEM handbrake (so no aftermarket hydraulic brake)...


It is going to be..

- 4-pot Rear Big Brake Kit
- Rotors are going to be 355mm...
- Steel braided hose...
- Rear Street/race brake pads
- Handbrake parts to (retain the OEM handbrake)

Color options wise have to be confirmed but i think most of u guys can sort that out individually...


Though, the price is going to be steep. Currently looking around 700 to 900 bucks plus minus from the rear brake kits price u get from rotora and stoptech... Price u pay for exclusivity and R & D... But beats the thought of not having one... and most probably/ definately do wonders in autocross and tracks


Name / Contact / Email
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Highway8

iTrader: (11)

EDIT: Port to POT

We do not need 4 pot rear brake calipers or 355 (14") rear rotors. Now if you just want to look fancy then sure go for it, but it wont help braking performance.

There is already a rear BBK on the market that retains the factory e-brake. http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/rx8/kits-7/

The kit uses the stock calipers but relocates them out to go along with the 13" rotors.

I installed this kit as part of a balanced brake upgrade when I installed the Racing Brake Enkei front BBK 4 pot calipers and 13.1" rotors. Even with BBK's in the front and rear I dont have any better braking performance. My brake temps are a little lower on the track and my pad life was extended a little, but thats it. My main reason for the upgrade was to play it safe. More power, more grip and more speed I felt more brakes was good insurance. Plus the weight loss with the aluminum calipers was an added bonus.

On that note, if you want to make something worth while, make both a stock rotor size kit and a 13" rotor size rear kit, both that uses 2 pot aluminum calipers with an integrated ebrake. The calipers should clear stock wheels and if possible enkei rpf1's 18X9.5 45mm.

Oh, and where are you going to come up with an aluminum caliper with integrated e-brake? I have seen a photo of one such 2 pot caliper but could never figure out how to buy it. European market only.

gregs

iTrader: (7)

interested on more info. how this will actually work?

NgoRX8

iTrader: (1)

Yea,.. that's not really a bbk.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

13" brake rotors are bigger then the stock front brake rotors. Yes it is a BBK. It's just not an aluminum caliper bbk so it doesnt look fancy.

http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/oe..._brake_kit.asp

Racing Brake sells several such kits for a variety of cars.

NgoRX8

iTrader: (1)

When you put it that way. Sure

Just not something I consider a BBK. A rotor upgrade and caliper relocation. An efficient way to utilize the OE system, but not the same as an aluminum caliper upgrade as in the works here.

Looking to see how this pans out.

Blacknightz

Thanks for the wording heads up...

Well, the 2 pot recommendation ure suggesting is more for stock set up which the stock brake capabilities are more than enough to cope with...

Here, with a 4 pot rear... it is a well worth upgrade than a 2 pot...

So those with the normal 4pot Front BBK from the likes of stoptech, wilwood, Ap racing, can consider this to more or less 'even out' for their rears...


For those with 4 pot fronts, with a 4 pot rear, should not have a disbalance in brake bias ya?



If demand is good, then we will roll out the front 6-pot bbk to match this 4-pot rear...


Or those already 6-pot front like GReddy, AP racing, Endless... This is a must have !!!

And those with force induction as well

Blacknightz

The tce performance and racing brake are not calipers right?

if not mistaken, Atkins or something was rolling out something similar, but only bigger rotors option.... not a BBK...

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Sorry but I just don't see the point of a 6 piston front 4 piston rear kit. Stock brakes work very well with race pads on modified track cars running 275 r-comp tires. My 4 piston 13.1" front with oem caliber 13" rear bbk is more then I will ever need with 300+ rwhp. So unless someone here has a 400+ rwhp race car with huge sticky tires, there is no functional need for anything bigger then what is already on the market. In fact most of the bbk's already being offered are too big. Huge rotors add unnecessary unsprung and rotational weight that our low torque low HP cars can't handle.

The perfect rx8 brake kit would be 13.3" x 1.1" front rotor using 4 piston calipers. In the back, 13 " x 1.1" rotor using 2 piston calipers. Kits must fit stock wheels and should fit 18x9.5 +45mm enkei RPF1 wheels. Bonus if they fit 17" wheels. For the e-brake. Your best bet is to have a dedicated ebrake caliber. Willwood and s few others offer them and most weigh less then 2 pounds. This could be an optional ebrake, so race cars wouldn't need them. This setup is a good balance between bigger and better then stock, but not so big that you are adding unnecessary weight and cost.

The number of piston doesn't really matter as much as having the proper sized calipers. I don't know enough about it, but the piston size effects the brake torque so they must be a correct fit for the master cylinder.

Todd TCE

Be happy to do a 13", four pot rear for someone. Give me a shout next week and we can get moving on it.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Hey Todd, I need to get some replacement rotor rings for my rear kit. I will be in contact.

Can you comment on why or why not use 4 - piston vs 2 - piston in the rear and 6 vs 4 in the front? The 4 piston front kits you offer are huge. I have always liked your 13.3" front track kit but was concerned about clearance with the RPF1's.

If you offered an aluminum rear kit with an ebrake option I would have gotten that last year.

bse50

Despite the idea of a bbk being almost useless you should say who's making it.
Especially with brake and suspension upgrades users won't be happy to pay for unknown products built buy unknown manufacturers.

Besides, adding a random number of pistons doesn't automatically improve performance. Our stock 1 piston system works just fine under extreme braking. Yes, the calipers may soffer from some flexing fatigue after many events but still... AP racing ones are expensive

TCE offers good product already, i'm sure that they kept in mind our ABS computer while building their systems. Same goes for RB and possibly stoptech.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The perfect kit would be a lot lighter than OE, not bigger. The RX-8 does not need bigger brakes. An aluminum 2-pot with aluminum mount bracket and e-brake for the OE disc (or RB 2-pc OE size disc) what is needed. Unfortunately most clueless people immediately go down on the bigger is better phallacy ....



.is

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

I am with you on saving weight. I picked my brake setup with that in mind.

Sorry, I meant if we actualy needed a BBK kit. A combination of more power, sticky tires and a fast race track would be a recipe for such a situation. Otherwise, stock sized 2-piece rotors with aluminum calipers would do the trick and be the lightest.

For example Eric Meyer has 2 rx8's listed on his website. Both 2650 pounds. One has a Renesis with 215 RWHP and uses 225 width r-comps. This car uses a stock brake setup with race pads. Brake ducts and 2-piece rotors I am guessing.

The other has a more power 290 Crank and larger brakes. Brembo E7 front and A4 rear 4 piston brakes. 355mm front rotors, 313 rear.

http://www.meyer-motorsports.com/Cars.html

I am also a believer that when you stiffen up the suspension on a vehicle you can improve braking performance by adding more rear brake torque. Less nose dive equals more rear grip and available braking without wheel look up. This can be accomplished by changing brake pads, larger rotors or a caliper piston size change. When I installed my Racing brake front BBK I saw longer 60-0 stopping distances. Installing the rear BBK with the front BBK produced the shortest stopping distances.

c0ldf1ame

iTrader: (5)

since i'm building a show car i cant use anything under 12 pistons per caliper, moar pistons = moar powah right?

o and it has to be a fancy color like shiny purple

Todd TCE

Some folks are all just too hung up on piston qty. Five dimes, two quarters or a half dollar...it's all the same thing.

There's no reason why one couldn't use a two, four, or even six piston caliper on the rear. All just depends on how large those pistons are. Replacing the stock single with a twin opposed with the same size bore...it's the same caliper only not sliding or floating. Doing that with a four pot (2 per side) and smaller bores is the same thing also. There are clearly some benefits....just not stopping distances. Longer pad life, possibly lower temps, improved pressure points....

But...rather than fight with the non existent multi piston opposed, fixed mount, ubar costly caliper and all....why not make some torque improvements simply with a larger rotor? Ever purchased "high performance" or "track pads" for the rear? Then you've done the same thing to the rear. But if you did it with a larger rotor you won't need the track pads and you'll run a lower temp. Take the leverage value over clamping force and more rotor mass and you have a lower duty cycle for the same net gain. The larger rotor is roughly a 10% tq increase. Probably a bit less even than a serious pad change gain.

While a rear kit with a combo caliper is possible, it would be nothing more than you have now if the piston area were about the same (which it would be given a combo caliper is about the same bore) so you'd still be longing for improvements- which would require the larger rotor again.

Personally...I'll take rotor efficiency over piston area and mega pad Cf any day. (common sense prevailing here; not suggesting 16" discs or such)

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Nobody is racing at Lemans in an RX-8, bigger is definitely not needed. RacingBrake already makes a lighter 2-pc OE rear disc setup, but they can't provide an e-brake caliper and anyone else can easily offer something similar if they so choose. A 1-pot slider is more work WRT the mounting bracket and will ultimately be heavier in order to handle the slider loads. That's why the slider mount bracket is almost always made from steel. Anything more than a 2-pot will only be heavier and not necessary. I have all the data on calipers etc. You just have to import them from Europe and I haven't gotten around to going there yet. I posted some stuff on the forum maybe two years ago.

bse50

Do you want me to help getting the calipers?

Todd TCE

I think you may have mis-interpreted my comments. Personally; I'd agree that it's not "needed". But regardless of that the benefits would still be relevant to someone who wants to do it; weight will be at or near (maybe less) than stock, overall effective mass greater and cooling properties improved.

Similar to other designs the goal is not so much improved braking as it is simply lowering the duty cycle or demands on the part. A can't really think of any negative impact here other than the expense. And it looks the part as well, nothing wrong with that.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I'm responding in general. Build that if you want, just don't look for me to buy it. The larger the diameter the greater the inertia squared. It won't just slow you down when braking, it impedes acceleration too ...

if anything the typical RX-8 enthusiasts biggest mistake is over using the brakes. Nobody wins races under braking, but they damn sure lose them trying to ...

Blacknightz

Thanks for all the feedback guys... It is really appreciated...

Yes i have looked at the basis of weight since most of u guys are concerned with it... But i assume that weight would apply more to NA rx-8 er's, yes?

With those FI and show cars would still consider this a pretty neat upgrade, No?

bse50

No. Weight is weight.
Nobody wants to pay for something before knowing the manufacturer either.

Manufacturing the right brackets to mount AP racing calipers would be smarter.

Todd TCE

Might make mention (seeing some clicks from this old thread) that the 14" front kit has been converted now to the full blown 6 pot. The all new Forged Billet Super Lite 6. Unlike the older version we now have a smaller bore displacement model which is ideal for this application.

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...o=120-12003-RD

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Well i must say, even with the 4-piston calipers your bbk is pretty outstanding. I'm quite surprised how much they've improved braking over the already impressive OEM brakes. The Colbalt pads probably helped a bit too (XR2/XR3) but the hawk dtc60/ht10 i was running on the oem brakes were no slouch either. I still dont think i've worked up the confidence to use all of my new found braking potential and i'm already braking much deeper than i was before.

all ^^^ is track experience but they behave very well on the street too. TCE put together a fine kit here.