Impressions on RB Sway Bars
08-18-2005, 11:58 AM
#1
U-Stink-But-I-♥-U
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Impressions on RB Sway Bars
Thought I would give my take on a DIY install and performance impressions of the Racing Beat Swaybars.
As for other modifications, I have a RB Flywheel, street/track clutch and pressure plate, RB exhaust and K&N typhoon intake, RP short shifter, and a CP racing 4-pt strut bar (also CF hood but that is a long story); all DIY.
The rear bar was easy. Plug and Play. It took me as much time to jack up the car as it took to put the bar on (tightening the bolts is a little tricky. The endlink posts rotate in their sockets when you try to tighten the bolt down with a socket wrench. You will likely need to use plan B and insert a 5mm hex in the post and tighten with an open end wrench.) I can literally bend the stock bar by leaning on it. The RB bar will not. Also the RB bar doesnt have a bend in the middle to run over the exhaust. I am not sure what the implications of that are. I didn't drive it with just the rear sway, but I should have tried (Absolutely with the DSC on. Suprize oversteer is never fun.)
New beefy endlinks are recommend for the front bar and this requires drilling-out the endlink holes on the bar AND your lower control arm. The bit comes with the endlinks. Drilling a new hole in your car will NOT give you the warm fuzzies, but it is required and not hard. (wear shoes in your garage for at least a week after doing this or you will be pulling Aluminum slivers out of your feet.)
Getting the the front bar in and out is not easy. Pulling the old bar out and putting the new bar in is like one of those impossible puzzles where you have to pull a 3 inch ring through a 1 inch hole. (what a frigging pita trying to get that through the car) I made the mistake of leaving the endlinks on the stock bar and pulling them though with the bar. They get hung up on hoses and stuff; take them off.
While getting the new bar through the car was hard, humping the bar over the tie rod ends is impossible. Definitely a 2-person job, so make a friend. Expect the bar to get scratched (I hope that does not lessen the life of the bar? Comments?). I really have no idea how I got it into place. Bolting down was easy. If you turn the bolts slowly, the posts tend not to spin in the endlink sockets. If they still spin remember 3/4 in = 19 mm; I dont have a 19 mm open end wrench.
After install, I took it out for a ride. Very definitely a difference in handling without any new harshness. I rode down a nearby curvy road (hard to find just north of the Beltway of DC) which has some tight corners. My initial impression was that the car handles/holds much better. Almost no roll. But a week of driving is required for a complete analysis.
After a week: Yeah, the car handles differently now. Overall, the ride is not effected unless you hit a bump with one wheel, then if feels a little rough (to be expected.) Obviously, you could not tell that there is anything done unless you were hard in a corner. Up to, say, 50% of max cornering, I still cant feel a difference. Above 50% up to 85%there is no roll In the corners where there used to be roll; this is confidence inspiring. At 85%, there is a new feeling of rigidity in the front of the car which may also have to do with the strut bar. Above 85%, the car still rolls a bit (though much less) and the feeling of front rigidity makes me feel that the car is twisting, as if the back wheels are flat but only one front wheel is making solid contact. My max cornering is higher for sure. I can tell cause I have to go faster to make the wheels begin to break free and I can hardly turn the wheel fast enough going around corners. Makes me wish for less lock to lock like the evo. I havent figured out what the car likes to do yet at max cornering. (over vs under) The tires protest more before they lose grip. Is that expected? On quick corners where the steering (moo) wheel is constantly moving, the car pushes more and feels like it wants to understeer, but on constant radius corners (at non-highway speeds) I get a feeling of controlable oversteer. (how do you spell steer? Not the cow) I am not sure about this yet. Need more experiments.
High speed long sweeping turns on the highway are amazing. The car just sticks and sticks with no roll.
Interestingly, I was noticing on my car great right hand turns but understeer on left hand turns. Guess what it was. 2-4 lbs underinflation on the front right tire (just 30 lbs insteat of 34). When it is at 34-35 lbs handling is great both ways (I have got to replace that tire or stem cause it leaks). What this means is that the bars are helping the handleing so much that I am feeling flaws in other areas of the car that are getting pushed to new limits. I do have to say while I can corner better, I now have more understeer. This is with the DSC on; dont have the ***** to try corners with curbs with the DSC off. WIth the DSC off I could nail the throttle and motor out of the corner and life would be grand. I should have more rear wheel bite with the understeering tendency. But the DSC chops the throttle. As I said I am too chicken to try breaking the tires loose at speed. In any case I think my 90 degree corner entry speed has increased 2-3 mph (about 47 to 50 mph where that speed is the absolutly last glance to the speedo before entering the corner. The actual speed is less), maybe more with practice.
Amazing how such a small modification can change the car so much. I really want to go test drive a stock rx8 now.
As for other modifications, I have a RB Flywheel, street/track clutch and pressure plate, RB exhaust and K&N typhoon intake, RP short shifter, and a CP racing 4-pt strut bar (also CF hood but that is a long story); all DIY.
The rear bar was easy. Plug and Play. It took me as much time to jack up the car as it took to put the bar on (tightening the bolts is a little tricky. The endlink posts rotate in their sockets when you try to tighten the bolt down with a socket wrench. You will likely need to use plan B and insert a 5mm hex in the post and tighten with an open end wrench.) I can literally bend the stock bar by leaning on it. The RB bar will not. Also the RB bar doesnt have a bend in the middle to run over the exhaust. I am not sure what the implications of that are. I didn't drive it with just the rear sway, but I should have tried (Absolutely with the DSC on. Suprize oversteer is never fun.)
New beefy endlinks are recommend for the front bar and this requires drilling-out the endlink holes on the bar AND your lower control arm. The bit comes with the endlinks. Drilling a new hole in your car will NOT give you the warm fuzzies, but it is required and not hard. (wear shoes in your garage for at least a week after doing this or you will be pulling Aluminum slivers out of your feet.)
Getting the the front bar in and out is not easy. Pulling the old bar out and putting the new bar in is like one of those impossible puzzles where you have to pull a 3 inch ring through a 1 inch hole. (what a frigging pita trying to get that through the car) I made the mistake of leaving the endlinks on the stock bar and pulling them though with the bar. They get hung up on hoses and stuff; take them off.
While getting the new bar through the car was hard, humping the bar over the tie rod ends is impossible. Definitely a 2-person job, so make a friend. Expect the bar to get scratched (I hope that does not lessen the life of the bar? Comments?). I really have no idea how I got it into place. Bolting down was easy. If you turn the bolts slowly, the posts tend not to spin in the endlink sockets. If they still spin remember 3/4 in = 19 mm; I dont have a 19 mm open end wrench.
After install, I took it out for a ride. Very definitely a difference in handling without any new harshness. I rode down a nearby curvy road (hard to find just north of the Beltway of DC) which has some tight corners. My initial impression was that the car handles/holds much better. Almost no roll. But a week of driving is required for a complete analysis.
After a week: Yeah, the car handles differently now. Overall, the ride is not effected unless you hit a bump with one wheel, then if feels a little rough (to be expected.) Obviously, you could not tell that there is anything done unless you were hard in a corner. Up to, say, 50% of max cornering, I still cant feel a difference. Above 50% up to 85%there is no roll In the corners where there used to be roll; this is confidence inspiring. At 85%, there is a new feeling of rigidity in the front of the car which may also have to do with the strut bar. Above 85%, the car still rolls a bit (though much less) and the feeling of front rigidity makes me feel that the car is twisting, as if the back wheels are flat but only one front wheel is making solid contact. My max cornering is higher for sure. I can tell cause I have to go faster to make the wheels begin to break free and I can hardly turn the wheel fast enough going around corners. Makes me wish for less lock to lock like the evo. I havent figured out what the car likes to do yet at max cornering. (over vs under) The tires protest more before they lose grip. Is that expected? On quick corners where the steering (moo) wheel is constantly moving, the car pushes more and feels like it wants to understeer, but on constant radius corners (at non-highway speeds) I get a feeling of controlable oversteer. (how do you spell steer? Not the cow) I am not sure about this yet. Need more experiments.
High speed long sweeping turns on the highway are amazing. The car just sticks and sticks with no roll.
Interestingly, I was noticing on my car great right hand turns but understeer on left hand turns. Guess what it was. 2-4 lbs underinflation on the front right tire (just 30 lbs insteat of 34). When it is at 34-35 lbs handling is great both ways (I have got to replace that tire or stem cause it leaks). What this means is that the bars are helping the handleing so much that I am feeling flaws in other areas of the car that are getting pushed to new limits. I do have to say while I can corner better, I now have more understeer. This is with the DSC on; dont have the ***** to try corners with curbs with the DSC off. WIth the DSC off I could nail the throttle and motor out of the corner and life would be grand. I should have more rear wheel bite with the understeering tendency. But the DSC chops the throttle. As I said I am too chicken to try breaking the tires loose at speed. In any case I think my 90 degree corner entry speed has increased 2-3 mph (about 47 to 50 mph where that speed is the absolutly last glance to the speedo before entering the corner. The actual speed is less), maybe more with practice.
Amazing how such a small modification can change the car so much. I really want to go test drive a stock rx8 now.
08-24-2005, 07:10 AM
#3
Did you use a lift or jacks when replacing the front bar? I am considering doing sway bars also but I have read here several times about what a pain the front bar can be.
08-24-2005, 10:14 AM
#4
Originally Posted by SDB
Did you use a lift or jacks when replacing the front bar? I am considering doing sway bars also but I have read here several times about what a pain the front bar can be.
08-24-2005, 04:05 PM
#5
Smooth Criminal
I just had mine put on last week. It was not worth it to me to try and do it myself, and there was no way the wife would help.
I have really enjoyed them so far. General cornering feels better, less roll, more crisp steering response, and better feel. It does seem to translate a little more road irregularity, but not enough to be bothersome. I like it, I feel like I know more about what the road conditions are.
The most noticed was coming out of my office, I have to make a right hand turn, while cresting a rise to the public road. Sometimes TCS comes on, stopping the passenger side rear tire from spinning a little, this does not happen anymore.
For anyone looking at making the jump to the RB sways, I recommend it.
Now I am looking forward to seeingthe difference at my next AutoX event.
I have really enjoyed them so far. General cornering feels better, less roll, more crisp steering response, and better feel. It does seem to translate a little more road irregularity, but not enough to be bothersome. I like it, I feel like I know more about what the road conditions are.
The most noticed was coming out of my office, I have to make a right hand turn, while cresting a rise to the public road. Sometimes TCS comes on, stopping the passenger side rear tire from spinning a little, this does not happen anymore.
For anyone looking at making the jump to the RB sways, I recommend it.
Now I am looking forward to seeingthe difference at my next AutoX event.
08-25-2005, 11:53 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by swoope
great review,
turn the dsc off and review agian.
beers
turn the dsc off and review agian.
beers
So, with the DSC off or on the car now definitely has more understeer (in very tight, 90 degree corners where traction is lost). (Due, IMHO, to not-so-sticky-anymore tires in combo with the bigger front bar. Remember, even with the understeer, I am taking turns harder).
But with the DSC off and begining to understeer in the corner (in secondg gear, maybe 6 to 7krpm) I can apply the throttle and modulate my thrust direction (where my nose points) very easily to navigate the corner. This is a fracking blast.
Needless to say, there is no way to do this with DSC on and you dont want to do this if there are other cars around or curbs.
08-25-2005, 11:57 PM
#8
U-Stink-But-I-♥-U
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Originally Posted by SDB
Did you use a lift or jacks when replacing the front bar? I am considering doing sway bars also but I have read here several times about what a pain the front bar can be.
08-26-2005, 10:41 PM
#10
08-29-2005, 06:34 AM
#12
Smooth Criminal
Ok, well yesterday I put the car through a rigourous test, of probably 2000 mountian curves.
And I have this statement to make:
"Replacing the stock sway bars on the RX-8 with aftermarket stiffer sway bars, is the best first mod to make"
I did not do them first, but wish I had. I feel that I got more for my money from the sway bars, than anything else that I have done to the car. It cut through corners so smooth, and with no roll. The steering response was awesome, and the car felt more balanced.
Anyone still sitting on the fence about upgrading, remove the pointed end of the fence from your ***, and make the switch, you will not regret it. :D
And I have this statement to make:
"Replacing the stock sway bars on the RX-8 with aftermarket stiffer sway bars, is the best first mod to make"
I did not do them first, but wish I had. I feel that I got more for my money from the sway bars, than anything else that I have done to the car. It cut through corners so smooth, and with no roll. The steering response was awesome, and the car felt more balanced.
Anyone still sitting on the fence about upgrading, remove the pointed end of the fence from your ***, and make the switch, you will not regret it. :D
08-29-2005, 08:03 PM
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only front and back sway bar changed, I bring my car to thunderhill for track day. I start dsc/tcs on for the first 2 session. Then, I turn my dsc/tcs off. the car is so balance with the RB sway bar (stock spring, stock tire).
08-29-2005, 08:48 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Razz1
WHAT !! You don't like spinning a 120?
That all I have to say about that.
08-29-2005, 08:54 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Im_DANomite
got the RB's as well...the ride is toight...toight like a toiger. i also added a JIC rear strut bar, helps a tad bit. tryin' to decide if i want to get the front JIC bar.
When you said the rear strut bar helped, how so?
08-30-2005, 08:58 AM
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Question to people with RB Swaybars
Is everyone also buying the new endlinks with their RB swaybars? Or are people putting the swaybars on with the stock endlinks?
08-30-2005, 09:25 AM
#21
Smooth Criminal
Originally Posted by Moostafa29
I got new endlinks. With the beefier stronger RB swaybar, I think larger endlinks would be better.
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