JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Yes, ET800. 144 track miles and about 1000 street miles.

Not super deep. There are a bunch of small ones and then one big one. I dont have a good way of measuring it. Maybe about the thickness of 5-6 sheets of paper???

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

They're not cheap, $250. I thought i was getting a track pad. Maybe not a Cobalt Friction or Carbotech pad but i figured it'd be close.

Spin9k

Racing brake makes good stuff for sure, but the right tool for the job, and all that is paramount....ET800 doesn't even sound close to a track pad:

...contrast that with this...

http://www.cobaltfriction.com ...read through the site, it's a good education, and their pads work both on and off the track (but although they discourage road use, I use them that way no problem for 3 yrs).... I've used their 'CSR type' all around, and their XR2, XR4, XR5 pads in combo over likely a thousand or more track miles...

An example is 2 day track event couple yrs ago when I 1st got them, alternating 1/2 hr sessions, 8 per day/4 hrs on track daily....and the XR2/XR5 combo I used must have worn some, but it was hard to tell. So I recommend that these type pads are just what you're looking for.... except they make some noise, they make some dust, and they cost a bit more. My latest set of XR2/XR4s were $338 and worth every penny.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Fair enough but when they advertise their ET900 pads as FULL RACE PADS!! OMG NO STREET USE!!! You'd think the ET800 wouldn't be complete crap. Plus most of those things they say about the ET800's are wrong anyways. They dust a **** ton, they squeal a lot and they dont allow for extended rotor wear because they vanish before your eyes causing the steel backing to rip into your rotors

Not happy.

I have a set of Carbotechs in my shopping cart at Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development. Haven't pulled the trigger yet though. I guess i dont really need pads until the end of the month (next track day) and i might need new rotors. BBK? hehe.

justjim

As Spin9k pointed out this is mostly an issue of using a street performance pad for something it isn't appropriate for, the track. They wore out because you probably exceeded their thermal limits. By the way, if the rotor is still above minimum thickness those grooves aren't a problem. Most of what you are looking at is leftover pad deposits and not groove anyway. A couple of laps with a track pad and those "grooves" will lessen considerably. A couple of days with new street pads followed by a proper bedding procedure will also improve things. If you had never gone to the track you would probably be happy with the pads. As I pointed out in the Brake FAQ https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/brake-faq-167264/ as your skills improve you will benefit by using dedicated track pads for your track days. People who say that street performance pads work at the track are either not pushing their car, or are driving at non-brake intensive tracks, or by "track" they mean autocross.

Check out
Carbotech XP series
Cobalt XR series
Hawk DTC series

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Really? 1400 degrees (which is the upper limit of the ET800's) is pretty sinking hot. Obviously i can't measure operating temps in real time but thinking i hit over 1400 degrees just blows my mind.

I figured as much. They still feel fine and they look way better in this pic than they did when i swapped my OEM pads back in.

I agree, they really did stop well and provide fade free performance but i guess this means i'm becoming a better driver yay! The session my brakes bit the dust i spent 5 laps fending off a 996 911 Turbo and got my best lap time of the day woo!


Now my question is....


DTC-60 or Carbotech XP10/XP8????

Not that i have anything against Cobalt Friction but i might be able to talk Racing Brake into selling me some DTC-60's at a discount and I can get Carbotechs from Mazda Motorsports Dev for $276.

Spin9k

You have to take these things in stride... be upset at those who recommended these to you for track use. They didn't know of what they were speaking obviously. Life is full of "Ah ha!.. OMG..." and "ah ****!" moments. Most learning occurs at that exact moment...occassionally the hard way....but fortunately in this case you and your car went unscathed, instead, your fun that day and your checking account were damaged. The valueable lesson you'll not forget... for the best advice, listen or ask people who do, not to those who sell or have only heresay to back up their advice. Nuf said.

justjim

I only have personal experience with the Carbotechs and the Cobalts but I know from other people who have used them that the Hawk DTC series are good track pads. I use Cobalts on my RX8 and Carbotechs on our 24 Hours of Lemons Mitsubishi.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

I have. Brice is already helping me figure things out.

LOL -- that's exactly what this is.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

So i just talked to Racing Brake and they didn't even recommend their own pads for track use. They said get the DTC-60's. He said the ET900's are more durable than the ET800's but they're still not at the level of the DTC-60's.

justjim

The only question then is whether to put DTC 60s at all 4 corners or a less aggressive DTC series in the rear. Spin 9k had a post about this recently in which Eric Meyer commented on the Hawk series. I'll see if I can find the link https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...light=sticking . I use Cobalt XR1 front and XR5 rear in my RX8 and Carbotech XP12 front and XP8 rear in our Lemons Mitsubishi. The softer the suspension the less aggressive the pad in the rear in my opinion. If you are on coilovers you may be able to put the same on all 4 corners.

bse50

Ugly situation aside, what tires will you be installing?
I'm afraid that a race compound pad on street tires may be counter productive especially at the rear. Excessive wheel lock is never a good thing if it sets the abs on all the time!
I'd try a set of ht-10 pads all around and swap to hp+ on the rear if you have problems for track use. Their stopping power is about 2\3 of the Ht-10.

With the ht-10 you won't have problems with brake temperatures exceeding 540°c (more than 1000°F).

If you intend to buy semi slicks then you should be able to take advantage of the dtc compounds but again those may be overkill.

Just my .02c

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

I'm trying to kill off my Bridgestone RE050A Pole Position 255/40/18's. They WILL NOT die haha. I thought i was going to have to replace them 6 track days ago and they're still going strong.

Once they kick the bucket i'm going to get NT01 275/35/18 or something similar.

I do have coilovers but i'm not sure if i want to stagger the pads or not. I've not had an issue with running the same pads all the way around but then again i'm stepping into a new league in terms of brake pad compound.

bse50

Are you 100% sure that you need that size?
The bridgestones are die-hard tires, they become made of stone after some heat cycles and wear very slowly while their grip level sucks. I loved them!

By the way moving from a 255 to a 275 width tire will make matters worse for the rear brakes and, while they may be ok for some auto-x courses, they're overkill for a NA rx8 at the track.
Get them in 245\40 size and you'll be more than happy with the overall balance not being thrown up while braking and with the grip levels a semislick has.
You're moving from a summer tire to a semislick after all, increasing the size will just increase the amount of wasted power.

I never felt the need to get bigger tires than 245\40 r18 ones both grip and braking wise but that may be just me!

justjim

The HT series (HT-10, HT-14) are legacy compounds and have been superceded by the DTC series. Based on the TS description of his experience, he will benefit from track pads even with his current tire selection, perhaps with a less aggressive pad in the rear.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

No, Go big or go home. Or... maybe it's go big or go small

I'm not set on 275's but i do have FI plans for next season or the season after so i'm not sure if i'd still even have these tires at that point. I dont want 245's for sure. They'd be a little stretched on a 9.5" wide wheel. I'd at least get 255's again.

How does the increase in tire size going to "make matters worse for the rear brakes"? Is it just the result of the increased grip/stopping power of the front having a more dramatic effect on lightening up the rear before turn in/during trail braking?

If that's the case and i do decide on wider tires i may get staggered pads.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

I've been reading reviews on DTC-60's and it sounds like they wear fast as well. Maybe i'm back on the Carbotech bandwagon...

bse50

245s on a 9.5 wide rim may work especially since many semislicks are actually wider than what the paper says

You got the point of why the car may become tail-happy and the abs could kick in more often than before. 275 wheels also affect handling. The bigger the tires the slower the turn-in response.
Everything is a trade between an advantage or another when picking tire sizes, that's why I shared my little experience earlier. I'd try a set of 245\40 wheels before considering other sizes and in 2 years i'm sure that you'd be needing to change the tires again, FI or not so that's a moot point!

@justjim: thanks for the correction!

Spin9k

265/35/18 (245/40 would fit but are quite stretched) would be the best size for your 9.5" wheels IMHO. You pick up a bit of gearing advantage over 275s and I can attest to the fact that...

"the larger the tire, the slower the car" and I have track data to back it up...hence I'll never have 275/35/18s again...hells bells ...who wants to go slower still than we already do NA?! Beyond that the 265 has a bit better sidewall support with the 9.5s vs the 275s.

Lastly, NT-01s are great r-comps at an attractive price, you can drive them on the street no problem, or at least until they loose their tread mostly...so if that's the goal I can't think of a better tire with those concerns.

.....BUT ....in the "you get what you pay for dept" (again)... BFG R1 are in a league well above the Nitto's performance. I've owned two sets of NT-01s so please understand I appreciate what they do, but they can't hold a candle to the grip of the R1s. My2c - go for the gold - get the R1s - relish the grip - and splurge on the Cobalts while you're at it. Come back after a couple track days and tell me they both aren't worth every single penny

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Decisions decisions

If i go with Carbotechs i'm going to go XP10 in front and XP8 in rear. But if i get DTC-60's should i stagger them by running a different compound in the rear? If so what do you all suggest?

justjim

Don't know which of these are available for the RX8 but here's Hawk's track compound list http://www.hawkperformance.com/motor...unds/index.php . One of the reasons I like Carbotech and Cobalt is I can call them up and talk to the people that make the compounds and test them. That's a plus in my book.

Spin9k

^ ah men....call Cobalt for example and ask for tech support. You don't get an idiot and a phone, you get a friendly person who is happy to relate advice based on race team feedback, or give you setup advice on a "been there, it's been tried and here's what happens and why." Informed decisions, are best so why not understand what you're getting? But you already know that. I called and explained I had an RX-8 and my driving skill and listened and learned.

BlueRenesis82

If the grooves aren't super deep, I would just run the rotors still. Unless there are BIG cracks, it'll be fine, unless you enjoy buying parts

Also, CARBOTECH.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Thats the plan.

I do like buying parts but i'd rather buy parts when i plan to buy them. Not oh sh*t i need to drop a chunk of dough on pads and rotors.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

BUT....having an accident because your brakes crapped out is being stupid

They won't let you on the track with less than 1/2 pads if they do a decent tech anyway