Brake pads are toast, track day Saturday -- what to do?
04-19-2010, 11:38 PM
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Brake pads are toast, track day Saturday -- what to do?
So my brakes had been making a weird brushing noise lately. It didn't sound like a brake pad squeaker and it would only happen when i braked. I figured i should check my pad material before long but i really thought they would have some life left in them. Then i started to hear a weird clunking noise. It sounded like an endlink was disconnected or my sway bar bracket was loose.
So i got under my car today and everything was hunky-dory with my suspension but i figured while i was under there i'd check my pads. As it turns out my front pads were completely toast and they only had 1/32 of material left. They were almost to the metal. I couldn't believe it.
They were Racing Brake ET500 with less than 10k street miles 4 track days and 5-6 autocross events. Poof. Gone.
Luckily i prematurely swapped out my pads the last time so i had OEM pads available with a little less than a 1/4 inch of material left. I put those suckers in and now i can drive to work in the morning feeling a little safer
1/4 of OEM material isn't much but it's better than nothing. My real predicament is that i have a track day this weekend. Do i kill the OEM pads at the track (will they even hold up?) or should i try to get some pads shipped ASAP.
So i got under my car today and everything was hunky-dory with my suspension but i figured while i was under there i'd check my pads. As it turns out my front pads were completely toast and they only had 1/32 of material left. They were almost to the metal. I couldn't believe it.
They were Racing Brake ET500 with less than 10k street miles 4 track days and 5-6 autocross events. Poof. Gone.
Luckily i prematurely swapped out my pads the last time so i had OEM pads available with a little less than a 1/4 inch of material left. I put those suckers in and now i can drive to work in the morning feeling a little safer
1/4 of OEM material isn't much but it's better than nothing. My real predicament is that i have a track day this weekend. Do i kill the OEM pads at the track (will they even hold up?) or should i try to get some pads shipped ASAP.
Last edited by JantzenRX-8; 04-20-2010 at 12:00 AM.
04-19-2010, 11:56 PM
#3
I am surprised you got 4 track days AND 5 Auto X's out of the ET500's they are a ceramic compound so they cannot hold up to the heat like the 800's or the HP+
http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/rb_pads.asp#chart
I think they actually have the ET700 which would be more up your alley because you are a more avid track/autoX guy than just a spirited driver.
Either way let me know what pads you need I am stacked on Hawk and Racing brake pads.
I even have some HT-10's if you want to have some fun.
http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/rb_pads.asp#chart
I think they actually have the ET700 which would be more up your alley because you are a more avid track/autoX guy than just a spirited driver.
Either way let me know what pads you need I am stacked on Hawk and Racing brake pads.
I even have some HT-10's if you want to have some fun.
04-20-2010, 12:01 AM
#4
Swoope ran a test of his own with some Hawk ceramic pads at a track day and they were toast after one day...they glazed over after one session
Right pad for the right application, sometimes it is really challenging finding that happy medium in a brake pad.
Everyone wants low dust and no brake noise but it is just not feasible.
Why most people that are dedicated track addicts have a street pad and a dedicated track pad this way you can get the bite you need on track and not burn thru pads on track that were mostly designed for the street.
04-20-2010, 12:03 AM
#5
Running a ceramic pad on track repeatedly is not the best in terms of pad selection.
Swoope ran a test of his own with some Hawk ceramic pads at a track day and they were toast after one day...they glazed over after one session
Right pad for the right application, sometimes it is really challenging finding that happy medium in a brake pad.
Everyone wants low dust and no brake noise but it is just not feasible.
Why most people that are dedicated track addicts have a street pad and a dedicated track pad this way you can get the bite you need on track and not burn thru pads on track that were mostly designed for the street.
Swoope ran a test of his own with some Hawk ceramic pads at a track day and they were toast after one day...they glazed over after one session
Right pad for the right application, sometimes it is really challenging finding that happy medium in a brake pad.
Everyone wants low dust and no brake noise but it is just not feasible.
Why most people that are dedicated track addicts have a street pad and a dedicated track pad this way you can get the bite you need on track and not burn thru pads on track that were mostly designed for the street.
I was looking for better than OEM and I found a good pad
04-20-2010, 12:15 AM
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Yeah, i didn't think i was going to be going to the track when i bought them. I bought them for a dual purpose street/autocross pads. Then i got hooked on track days and i'm not looking back.
I think i'm going to get a dedicated track pad that i can at least get home without having to swap pads at the track.
I think i'm going to get a dedicated track pad that i can at least get home without having to swap pads at the track.
04-20-2010, 12:30 AM
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Can you get me pads by Friday? I really wanted to try Carbotech xp10/xp8's but i'm not opposed to HT-10's or ET800 (or even 900's -- i just dont know much about them yet). A good deal could convince me 
04-20-2010, 08:20 AM
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Still try those Carbotechs. I really like mine, and I am running the XP-8.
04-20-2010, 10:19 AM
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I've been curious about the ET800's for a while now so this will satisfy my curiosity. Plus i will be able to directly compare them to the ET500's for the benefit of all.
04-20-2010, 11:17 AM
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oem pads aren't bad at all specially if you're only running a street tire. you can over heat them with slicks. it also really depends on the track if its high speed long sweeping corners or is a small go kart type track which is really hard on everything.
i really feel people under estimate how good the oem pads are for street/track use.
i really feel people under estimate how good the oem pads are for street/track use.
04-20-2010, 12:06 PM
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oem pads aren't bad at all specially if you're only running a street tire. you can over heat them with slicks. it also really depends on the track if its high speed long sweeping corners or is a small go kart type track which is really hard on everything.
i really feel people under estimate how good the oem pads are for street/track use.
i really feel people under estimate how good the oem pads are for street/track use.
04-20-2010, 04:03 PM
#15
I'll get those next time. I wanted to deal with a vendor i knew would send them out the door ASAP. I'm not familiar with a lot of the vendors that carry Carbotech pads besides Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development. I'm sure they could have got me the pads in time but Brice gave me a good deal on some ET800's plus i can guilt him into giving me big discounts next time if i don't get them by Friday
I've been curious about the ET800's for a while now so this will satisfy my curiosity. Plus i will be able to directly compare them to the ET500's for the benefit of all.
I've been curious about the ET800's for a while now so this will satisfy my curiosity. Plus i will be able to directly compare them to the ET500's for the benefit of all.
I look forward to the review as well.
And yes I am making more Mazdaspeed shirts
, most likely in a month I should have them again.Now with more colors!
04-24-2010, 12:08 AM
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Pads arrived today
I installed them and bedded them in and WOW they are so much better than the ET500's. I brushed them a few times out to an empty road them in so they weren't dead cold but my first stop from 70-10 was so surprising. These things really grip.
Even jabbing the brakes at like 40 stops the car so much more immediately than the ET500's. With the 500's I always felt like i had to push the pedal a little harder than i'd like to get the car to decelerate as much as i wanted. With the 800's i barely have to touch the pedal to decelerate. It's a lot easier to slow down and much more confidence inspiring.
No real squeaking at normal driving temps but on my last 70-10 i got a nice screech out of them. They were getting pretty hot though i could smell them real good at that point.
Tomorrow will be the real test. Track day at Hallett Motor Racing Circuit. Unfortunately we will be running clockwise instead of counter-clockwise. I was out there 4 weeks ago with the ET500s but we were running the the other direction so i wont have a direct comparison but i'll still get a good feel for them. I'm going to have to re-learn how to brake. The pedal pressure i'm used to will now trigger ABS really easily so i'm going to have to lighten up -- i think i officially need more tire for these brakes. Good thing mine are on their last leg
Brice, thanks for stocking great products and having super customer service.
I installed them and bedded them in and WOW they are so much better than the ET500's. I brushed them a few times out to an empty road them in so they weren't dead cold but my first stop from 70-10 was so surprising. These things really grip.
Even jabbing the brakes at like 40 stops the car so much more immediately than the ET500's. With the 500's I always felt like i had to push the pedal a little harder than i'd like to get the car to decelerate as much as i wanted. With the 800's i barely have to touch the pedal to decelerate. It's a lot easier to slow down and much more confidence inspiring.
No real squeaking at normal driving temps but on my last 70-10 i got a nice screech out of them. They were getting pretty hot though i could smell them real good at that point.
Tomorrow will be the real test. Track day at Hallett Motor Racing Circuit. Unfortunately we will be running clockwise instead of counter-clockwise. I was out there 4 weeks ago with the ET500s but we were running the the other direction so i wont have a direct comparison but i'll still get a good feel for them. I'm going to have to re-learn how to brake. The pedal pressure i'm used to will now trigger ABS really easily so i'm going to have to lighten up -- i think i officially need more tire for these brakes. Good thing mine are on their last leg
Brice, thanks for stocking great products and having super customer service.
04-27-2010, 12:16 AM
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So i'm completely convinced these pads are way better than the ET500's in every way. Even as a street pad these things are far better than the ET500's and OEM pads.
Track Performance:
At the track they performed very well. I bedded the pads in on the street but i dont think i got them good enough because they felt a little strange during the first session. The level of grip seemed to change multiple times during a single deceleration -- it was weird but it eventually went away. Once i got them settled in i really started to like them. They feel a lot like the ET500's do when you first initiate braking but once you really get your foot into it they seriously decelerate the car. Modulation is very easy and smooth and initial bite is pronounced yet smooth. You have to be more careful with the initial bite on these pads verses the ET500's. If you get on the brakes too hard too fast the they can bite and unsettle the car a bit. Nothing to worry about it just forces you to remember to be smooth.
Fade:
Even though Hallett is a pretty tough course on brakes I never really worried about fade because even the ET500's wouldn't fade ( and i like to brake deep ) So flawless performance in the brake fade department. FYI Hallet has 6 braking zones and 5 of them i'm braking from the tip-top of 3rd down to as low as 30 mph. These 6 braking zones are all within ~1:35 (1.8 miles)
Dust:
These things dust hardcore (at least during high speed braking). I should have taken a picture before i washed them but my front wheels were absolutely black at the end of the day. The rears didn't dust nearly as much. The dust is a little hard to get off where there is a thicker deposit but i was able to get 99% of it off just using car soap and a wash mit. I'm not sure if they dust a lot during street braking but if i notice a lot of dust over the next week or so i'll let you know.
Noise:
No squeaking really. I think there was one time on the track they squeaked but it was insignificant -- i can't even remember the circumstances which they squeaked under
No squeaking during street driving either.
I can't think of anything else to say about these but i'm really happy with them and would recommend them. I'm not sure on wear yet or how harsh they are on rotors. Too early to tell i guess.
Track Performance:
At the track they performed very well. I bedded the pads in on the street but i dont think i got them good enough because they felt a little strange during the first session. The level of grip seemed to change multiple times during a single deceleration -- it was weird but it eventually went away. Once i got them settled in i really started to like them. They feel a lot like the ET500's do when you first initiate braking but once you really get your foot into it they seriously decelerate the car. Modulation is very easy and smooth and initial bite is pronounced yet smooth. You have to be more careful with the initial bite on these pads verses the ET500's. If you get on the brakes too hard too fast the they can bite and unsettle the car a bit. Nothing to worry about it just forces you to remember to be smooth.
Fade:
Even though Hallett is a pretty tough course on brakes I never really worried about fade because even the ET500's wouldn't fade ( and i like to brake deep
) So flawless performance in the brake fade department. FYI Hallet has 6 braking zones and 5 of them i'm braking from the tip-top of 3rd down to as low as 30 mph. These 6 braking zones are all within ~1:35 (1.8 miles)Dust:
These things dust hardcore (at least during high speed braking). I should have taken a picture before i washed them but my front wheels were absolutely black at the end of the day. The rears didn't dust nearly as much. The dust is a little hard to get off where there is a thicker deposit but i was able to get 99% of it off just using car soap and a wash mit. I'm not sure if they dust a lot during street braking but if i notice a lot of dust over the next week or so i'll let you know.
Noise:
No squeaking really. I think there was one time on the track they squeaked but it was insignificant -- i can't even remember the circumstances which they squeaked under
No squeaking during street driving either.I can't think of anything else to say about these but i'm really happy with them and would recommend them. I'm not sure on wear yet or how harsh they are on rotors. Too early to tell i guess.
06-08-2010, 10:16 PM
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Update:
Wear: Terrible. 8x15min sessions over the course of two track days (not a full day the second time -- missed out on my last three sessions). Poof gone. That would be ~80 laps or ~240 hard stops or ~144 miles. Whichever way you look at it its terrible and a waste of my hard earned money.
Pic of rotor after metal on metal contact. Think they're alright? Should i get them turned? there are some pretty good gouges in there. I'm probably right at minimum rotor thickness, i'm not even sure if a shop would turn them.
Wear: Terrible. 8x15min sessions over the course of two track days (not a full day the second time -- missed out on my last three sessions). Poof gone. That would be ~80 laps or ~240 hard stops or ~144 miles. Whichever way you look at it its terrible and a waste of my hard earned money.
Pic of rotor after metal on metal contact. Think they're alright? Should i get them turned? there are some pretty good gouges in there. I'm probably right at minimum rotor thickness, i'm not even sure if a shop would turn them.
06-09-2010, 07:38 AM
#25
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wow...that's hard to look at... not sure how it is possible to do that is a few sessions, but there it is. So now you're likely faced with getting new rotors, but this time get some decent race ready pads... like Cobalt Friction race pads.... sure they cost a bit more but there's a reason.... they work, they last, and they wear oh so much longer than these that destroyed your brakes. Cheap just isn't worth it.
Last edited by Spin9k; 06-09-2010 at 07:53 AM.