Adjustable endlinks - adjustment question
02-24-2009, 03:28 PM
#53
悪魔のR
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lol he's helping me out...well..sorta helping me out. :P
So again, my thoughts are this judging by what everyone is telling me..the endlink needs to go 90 degrees upward. That being said, to answer Ray's question..it's adjustable so that when you move the bar upward...with the arm facing more up..obviously you need to do more height adjustment so the endlink can reach out that far. Am I correct?
If anyone missed it, I'm running with Progress Technology Sway bars (2 holes in rear, 3 in front) with Evo-R adjustable endlinks in front and rear, with Stance Coilovers with a light drop..not too conservative..not too aggressive. Just right. :D
So again, my thoughts are this judging by what everyone is telling me..the endlink needs to go 90 degrees upward. That being said, to answer Ray's question..it's adjustable so that when you move the bar upward...with the arm facing more up..obviously you need to do more height adjustment so the endlink can reach out that far. Am I correct?
If anyone missed it, I'm running with Progress Technology Sway bars (2 holes in rear, 3 in front) with Evo-R adjustable endlinks in front and rear, with Stance Coilovers with a light drop..not too conservative..not too aggressive. Just right. :D
Last edited by Zelse; 02-24-2009 at 03:40 PM.
02-24-2009, 06:24 PM
#54
Adjustable end links are needed when alterations to the stock suspension change the ride height..or changes to the bar itself change the length or position of the pivot
If you make the links longer or shorter..it doesn't change the pressure on the sway bar...it will just change the angle that the bar tip will rest at...so unless it binds on something it will not impart forces
What people seem to forget here is that the sway is supposed to be set up at zero pre-load so to speak..ie until there is lateral transfer of weight and body roll..they do nothing
Otherwise you are increasing spring rate....much better done with springs
If you make the links longer or shorter..it doesn't change the pressure on the sway bar...it will just change the angle that the bar tip will rest at...so unless it binds on something it will not impart forces
What people seem to forget here is that the sway is supposed to be set up at zero pre-load so to speak..ie until there is lateral transfer of weight and body roll..they do nothing
Otherwise you are increasing spring rate....much better done with springs
02-24-2009, 07:30 PM
#55
Just for info ...if you have an adjustable bar with 3 holes...that gives you 5 different stiffness adjustments..there is no need for both sides to be in the same hole
hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 2-hole 2
hole 2- hole3
hole 3-hole 3
Cheers
hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 2-hole 2
hole 2- hole3
hole 3-hole 3
Cheers
02-25-2009, 10:02 AM
#59
My 8 looks like a Smurf
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In order for the most efficient movement (what little there is) and accurate setting the end-link SHOULD be at a right-angle to the axis of the swaybar. However, here is a fundamental question;
Why were adjustable end-links invented in the first place? Once we understand the answer to that question the rest becomes obvious.
Why were adjustable end-links invented in the first place? Once we understand the answer to that question the rest becomes obvious.
IMO, adjustable endlinks were made for adjustable coilovers. If you adjust your coilover height, you can adjust your endlinks to ensure the sway bar is aligned properly.
Along the same lines, even for non-adjustable coilovers / springs, there are various heights out there and a fixed endlink can't accommodate all of them, plus the fact that having different endlinks for each height is impractical.
And third, adjustable endlinks would allow you to put different tension on each side of the car, which you may want to do in certain situations such as compensating for offset weight on one side of the car.
Even better, when we get inside the heads of the OEM suspension design teams we can remember that they have INFINTE end-link length at their disposal when they design the swaybar/end-link system so we must also ask; how do they determine the "proper" length for the end-links and what are they parameters they must take into consideration?
03-02-2009, 09:38 PM
#60
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In Relation to the Front Sway Bar you want to keep the bar Horizontal(Completely level with the Ground, so adjusting the bolts height so that depending on your ride height making it shorter in length to pull the bar to a horizontal position.
Let me know if that helps or have any other questions.
Upgraded TSB?..
Let me know if that helps or have any other questions.
Upgraded TSB?..
03-03-2009, 11:47 AM
#67
Because of all this:
So - I have the stock suspension / ride height and want to get the Progress Tech bars. I'm assuming that the OEM endlinks are the proper length to use while on the OEM suspension? (concerns about durability aside) My reading so far suggests that if they are installed properly (not upside down) and I'm not doing any serious track driving or anything, the OEM links should be fine. My question is, with the stock ride height, the PT bars should work with the OEM links at around the ideal 90-degree angle?
Also - if this is the case, then there's no need to pre-load everything while setting the bars up? It seems to me that pre-loading is only necessary in order to determine the proper adjustments if using modified springs + adjustable end links. Is that...right?
Thanks guys....
Also - if this is the case, then there's no need to pre-load everything while setting the bars up? It seems to me that pre-loading is only necessary in order to determine the proper adjustments if using modified springs + adjustable end links. Is that...right?
Thanks guys....
Last edited by elysium19; 03-03-2009 at 11:49 AM.
03-03-2009, 12:15 PM
#68
justjim
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Preloading a sway bar would only be done if you had a specific reason to have a different roll resistance on one side or the other, say if you were fine tuning a track car for a particular problematic corner.
You could also use it to offset the drivers weight but that would be best dealt with in the spring rates not the sway bar. Adjustable endlinks primary purpose is not for preloading, its just for getting the length right for different cars and bars. Generally the left should be the same as the right except for the situations outlined above. You should be OK with the OEM endlinks, reliabiltiy notwithstanding.
You could also use it to offset the drivers weight but that would be best dealt with in the spring rates not the sway bar. Adjustable endlinks primary purpose is not for preloading, its just for getting the length right for different cars and bars. Generally the left should be the same as the right except for the situations outlined above. You should be OK with the OEM endlinks, reliabiltiy notwithstanding.
03-03-2009, 12:46 PM
#69
Power!!
when we get inside the heads of the OEM suspension design teams we can remember that they have INFINTE end-link length at their disposal when they design the swaybar/end-link system so we must also ask; how do they determine the "proper" length for the end-links and what are they parameters they must take into consideration?
1)Cost-The cheaper you can make it to meet the design criteria the cheaper you can sell the car at the same profit =sell more units or higher profit at a higher cost. What this translates to is the cost of the material and cost of manufacture. I'm not sure if hollow bars are cheaper but I suspect not. So to get the required stiffness and handle the load cycles I need to trade off material cost with manufacturing cost and packaging constraints and weight. If I could make a big enough bar diameter I could make it out of pine wood really cheap. It probably wouldn't fit in the front of the car but hey, it would be cheap.
2)Performance-I need to support a pre-determined stiffness ratio and load cycle. I need to select materials and adjust the design to support a calculated amount of flex (inches per pound) This allows me to play with the stiffness of the material and blade length while being constrained by room in the wheel well and durability of the material to handle X thousands of cycles without deforming or failing. It drives material selection, lever arm length, diameter, hollow, solid, filled with peanut butter, etc.
3)Packaging - I have to fit it in to the wheel well and attach it to the frame allowing for full range of motion of the suspension over bumps without hitting anything or otherwise negatively affecting the ride quality or performance. This affects how big a bar diameter I have room for as well as how long I need to make my blade and finally where I can attach my endlinks so I don't hit anything. So my endlink length would be a byproduct of my range of motion requirements and packaging requirements. I need to make sure I can swing the bar through the full range of motion without hitting anything or adversely affecting ride quality and performance.
that's what I "Think."
03-03-2009, 01:25 PM
#70
Preloading a sway bar would only be done if you had a specific reason to have a different roll resistance on one side or the other, say if you were fine tuning a track car for a particular problematic corner.
You could also use it to offset the drivers weight but that would be best dealt with in the spring rates not the sway bar. Adjustable endlinks primary purpose is not for preloading, its just for getting the length right for different cars and bars. Generally the left should be the same as the right except for the situations outlined above. You should be OK with the OEM endlinks, reliabiltiy notwithstanding.
You could also use it to offset the drivers weight but that would be best dealt with in the spring rates not the sway bar. Adjustable endlinks primary purpose is not for preloading, its just for getting the length right for different cars and bars. Generally the left should be the same as the right except for the situations outlined above. You should be OK with the OEM endlinks, reliabiltiy notwithstanding.
03-03-2009, 01:50 PM
#73
I am trying to engage in a general exercise using THIS particular concept as an example of something. What we all learn will then be able to be applied to the rest of the aftermarket industry and yet another curtain will be pulled back and various mysteries, secrets, and falsehoods will be exposed.
BTW, there are racecars that use preload via the swaybars and that concept may apply to the OEMs as well. I am not sure, though.
BTW, there are racecars that use preload via the swaybars and that concept may apply to the OEMs as well. I am not sure, though.
03-03-2009, 01:52 PM
#74
justjim
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I don't believe there is such a thing as preload on a swaybay. The only way this could be achieved is if it was fixed in the center and each end moved independently. A swaybar by design if one side moves up, the other side is pushed down because it piviots. If on an adjustable bar, you had a non-symmetrical endlink position, it would be the equivilent of the average of the two endlink connection points.
03-03-2009, 02:10 PM
#75
All I want is a whole in one so I can beat Tiger Woods.
Is that possible to set up on the 8?
mu ha ha...................