Adjustable endlinks - adjustment question
02-23-2009, 10:07 PM
#27
悪魔のR
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lol I was talking about Evo-R rear endlinks and that if we bring it lower it goes against the sensor... not about anything else. Then you guys went on about sways in general.. :x
02-23-2009, 10:22 PM
#29
I don't buy Kool-Aid
I'll take a glass please X_X
so true.
02-23-2009, 11:56 PM
#31
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Here's some thinking out loud since I have been working with Whiteline's sway bars and adjustable endlinks:
My question would be...are adjustable endlinks more or less a replacement for the adjustment holes in a sway bar? Right now, I have a non-adjustable Whiteline sway bar but the endlinks are adjustable.
In simple terms, increasing the length of the links would soften the suspension and decreasing the links would stiffen the suspension IIRC. In terms of overall adjustability things get complex when you have both adjustable bars AND endlinks.
There's a really awesome thread I'm pouring over on the NASOIC forums where whiteline discusses how a 3 point adjustable bar is in fact 5 point adjustable.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218971
One thing to keep in mind with adjustable suspension is the range and complexity of your setup. I made the mistake of thinking more adjustability was better when all it did was seriously complicate my setup. It's taken the better part of a year of track time and research for me to finally get a setup that works within what the RX8 was designed for.
My question would be...are adjustable endlinks more or less a replacement for the adjustment holes in a sway bar? Right now, I have a non-adjustable Whiteline sway bar but the endlinks are adjustable.
In simple terms, increasing the length of the links would soften the suspension and decreasing the links would stiffen the suspension IIRC. In terms of overall adjustability things get complex when you have both adjustable bars AND endlinks.
There's a really awesome thread I'm pouring over on the NASOIC forums where whiteline discusses how a 3 point adjustable bar is in fact 5 point adjustable.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218971
One thing to keep in mind with adjustable suspension is the range and complexity of your setup. I made the mistake of thinking more adjustability was better when all it did was seriously complicate my setup. It's taken the better part of a year of track time and research for me to finally get a setup that works within what the RX8 was designed for.
02-24-2009, 12:26 AM
#33
I don't buy Kool-Aid
With adjustable endlinks on a non-adjustable bar you can still adjust. So yes they are a replacement. Plus oem endlinks suck. They bend in the back (well mine did) and from what I read on here the front bend too.
02-24-2009, 07:22 AM
#35
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So, I'm thinking the endlinks need to be adjusted while the wheels are on the ground. That's going to be a challenging position to make the adjustments.
02-24-2009, 08:44 AM
#38
Isn't THIS what forums like this are for? I certainly hope it is.........
Share ideas, thoughts, observations, and experiences.
Argue a bit, challenge one another, get heated from time to time.
Get pissed at each other and call each other names.
Meet up and drink a couple Samuel L. Jackson beers together.
Happens at the BHR "compound" every time there are two or more of us getting together.
Share ideas, thoughts, observations, and experiences.
Argue a bit, challenge one another, get heated from time to time.
Get pissed at each other and call each other names.
Meet up and drink a couple Samuel L. Jackson beers together.
Happens at the BHR "compound" every time there are two or more of us getting together.
02-24-2009, 10:39 AM
#41
O Rly?
The Bar doesn't move, The End-link changes position and it does change the stiffness level by changing the whole Softer setting on the upgraded bars to full stifness settings you can see
Front Sway Bar:
110% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 970 lbs/in
150% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1150 lbs/in
195% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1370 lbs/in
Rear Sway Bar:
390% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 195 lbs/in
470% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 250lbs/in
580% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 340 lbs/in
110% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 970 lbs/in
150% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1150 lbs/in
195% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1370 lbs/in
Rear Sway Bar:
390% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 195 lbs/in
470% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 250lbs/in
580% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 340 lbs/in
Instead of being sarcastic you could just correct the wrong statement.
(For Charles)Everyone has valuable input....
02-24-2009, 10:47 AM
#42
The point, BRICE, was to make you do your own homework (for once) instead of others (like me) doing it for you as you asked me to do with regard to ACT's line of product recently. Maybe you should learn a little more about the RX-8 instead of telling people what they simply want to hear in order to close a sale.
What is even more embarassing is that people have posted up here who aren't even vendors and they have more experience than you with this car and they articulated their positions far better than you did. Doesn't that cause anyone concern here?
I don't know nearly everything about the RX-8, and we are all learning, but I don't also need to bullshit people about it and ape other people's info in order to help my customers.
Not everyone has valuable input as I wouldn't trust a brain surgeon to rebuild my transmission.
THIS was sarcasm.......
02-24-2009, 11:48 AM
#43
Administrator
Nobody on the BHR team is arrogant enough to actually think we know everything and we certainly enjoy the opportunity to share ideas and learn something in the process. And maybe have a little healthy competition in the process as we are more concerned with the end benefit to the market more than anything else. The current vendor rules quash these opportunities.
the current rules were put in place because of a bhr team member and his constant bashing of others to the point of harassment whose sole point seemed not for info sake but to drive away competition. many could conclude from reading his posts that he is indeed arrogant enough.
02-24-2009, 11:52 AM
#44
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/jack
as a side note, this recent talk is why i pestered Fluid recently about one of their products. not because it was a poor product, but because i am not informed enough to forsee all the aspects of many modifications and i look to the vendor trying to sell me something to fill me in on any and every question or concern i may have about it.
/end jack
as a side note, this recent talk is why i pestered Fluid recently about one of their products. not because it was a poor product, but because i am not informed enough to forsee all the aspects of many modifications and i look to the vendor trying to sell me something to fill me in on any and every question or concern i may have about it.
/end jack
02-24-2009, 11:52 AM
#45
justjim
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The adjustment of the endlinks is there simply to align the connection of the pivot arm to the frame to prevent binding, and interference with the frame and other suspension/brake components. Although I can imagine a radical change in endlink length might have some small effect on sway bar stiffness by changing the geometry of the pivot arm, endlink length changes large enough to significantly effect bar stiffness would probably cause big problems with binding and survival of the endlink.
I would imagine that the best endlink length is that which places the endlink at 90 degrees to the line extending from the attachment hole to the center of the cross-section of the main cross bar when the suspension is loaded at rest (i.e. on the ground).
Last edited by justjim; 02-24-2009 at 11:56 AM.
02-24-2009, 01:01 PM
#47
悪魔のR
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This is my understanding of the geometry of swaybar stiffness. Correct me with facts if I am wrong. As Dannobre alludes to above, the stiffness of the sway bar is related to the torsional stiffness of the main cross bar which is dependent on its diameter and construction (hollow vs solid), multiplied by the length of the pivot arm (the arm with the adjustable holes in it). Using different holes in the pivot arm shortens or lengthens the pivot arm, and changes the torque just like using a shorter or longer wrench handle.
The adjustment of the endlinks is there simply to align the connection of the pivot arm to the frame to prevent binding, and interference with the frame and other suspension/brake components. Although I can imagine a radical change in endlink length might have some small effect on sway bar stiffness by changing the geometry of the pivot arm, endlink length changes large enough to significantly effect bar stiffness would probably cause big problems with binding and survival of the endlink.
I would imagine that the best endlink length is that which places the endlink at 90 degrees to the line extending from the attachment hole to the center of the cross-section of the main cross bar when the suspension is loaded at rest (i.e. on the ground).
The adjustment of the endlinks is there simply to align the connection of the pivot arm to the frame to prevent binding, and interference with the frame and other suspension/brake components. Although I can imagine a radical change in endlink length might have some small effect on sway bar stiffness by changing the geometry of the pivot arm, endlink length changes large enough to significantly effect bar stiffness would probably cause big problems with binding and survival of the endlink.
I would imagine that the best endlink length is that which places the endlink at 90 degrees to the line extending from the attachment hole to the center of the cross-section of the main cross bar when the suspension is loaded at rest (i.e. on the ground).
02-24-2009, 01:33 PM
#48
justjim
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02-24-2009, 02:27 PM
#49
the current rules were put in place because of a bhr team member and his constant bashing of others to the point of harassment whose sole point seemed not for info sake but to drive away competition. many could conclude from reading his posts that he is indeed arrogant enough.
02-24-2009, 02:32 PM
#50
Why were adjustable end-links invented in the first place? Once we understand the answer to that question the rest becomes obvious. Even better, when we get inside the heads of the OEM suspension design teams we can remember that they have INFINTE end-link length at their disposal when they design the swaybar/end-link system so we must also ask; how do they determine the "proper" length for the end-links and what are they parameters they must take into consideration?
I don't wish to simply bloviate my opinion, I want to teach all of you what I learned with Ford for 8 years and show you how to assess things for yourselves.