zoom44

under engineered? you dont know the first thing about this car if that is your opininion. sell yours and move on

srm858

Zoom 44. Yes, underengineered. How many updates are we to endure until they get the car right? Flooding, A/C Amps, Poor gas mileage, control arms, etc. Even simple things like checking the oil and adding it is difficult. The dipstick is buried and you have to remove a cover to add oil. This, on a car designed to use oil. Very poor.

I have driven and worked on many cars over the years. None are perfect. But, none have had anywhere near the amount of problems this car has had and still has.

I stick to my statement. This car was not completely developed when released to the public. I call that underengineered.

zoom44

flooding- inherrent in the design of the rotary and this car floods less than past rotaries.

a/c amp- not an engineering problem. people complained they didnt liek the way the a/c worked. mazda came up with a way to change that to try to make the owners happy. it still worked with the old amps.

poor gas mileage- rotaries are inhereently less fuel effecient than pistons. this na engine is way mor epowerful and fuel effiecient than the previous NA engine. it is quite capable of achieving the EPA numbers. did you not read the window sticker?

control arms- this is not an engineering issue. it is a manufacturing issue by the party who supplieed them. Mazda found the issue during ongoing testing that all companies do. There have been 0 actually found with a problem in the states and only 2 found with the questionable arm. Mazda's problem here is not tracking their inventory properly not in the engineering.

the oil checking- oh my god they expect you to remove a PIECE OF PLASTIC to check the oil, damn that is difficult and time consuming.

rxeightr

srm858,
You & I have something in common.

I also owned a Fiat Spyder (850).

That is the only thing we have in common. My well-engineered RX-8 has not required me to add a quart of oil between changes, have had no issues with the A/C, and gets 22-23 mpg average (when budgeting, expected to get 20 mpg).

Next you will be telling us the Spyder was better engineered. Don't attempt to go there!

srm858

Mmmm, Fiat 2000 Spyder better engineered than the RX8, no I don't think I will go there. Mine is an '82, so Fiat had 15 years to get the bugs out. Even after that time, they still leak oil from everywhere, the brakes stink, and they must have had bus drivers design the steering wheel position. on the plus side, it does get 30mpg in mixed driving, it's been very reliable, it cost peanuts to maintain, and I bought it for $1000 13 years ago.

The RX8 is my first rotary. I'm sure it's better than the older models, but I can only compare it to a piston engine. When it was flatbedded to the dealer after only 2 months of ownership, I started to wonder. We've had so many flashes, I've lost track. Zoom44, many times I've had to get a flashlight to see where to put the dipstick back in and why do I have to remove a cover to put oil in? Why didn't they make a hole in it for the cap to poke through like everyone else? Why is the windsheild washer container black? If they made it translucent, I could glance at it to see if it's full. Why did they release a car where you have to send a video to customers to explain how not to flood it? They apparently don't flood anymore, so obviously they didn't get it right originally. Why not? They didn't do enough testing.

I was really angry yesterday after the dealer blew me off. I love driving this car and don't really want to get rid of it. The two dealers I have used have been awful. I don't know where else to go and I have to bring the car back so many times for updates and fixes. Normally, I do almost all my repairs and maintenance, so I rarely go to a dealer. With the RX8, I've been there at least 15 times in 2 years. ARRGGHH! It's like going for root canal work 7 or 8 times a year.

If Mazda doesn't get everything right with the car soon, I'm going to dump it out of frustration. Or, a real long shot, have the dealers in the area treat their customers with respect. I'd rather be singing the praises of this car and dealers to friends and relatives. Right now, all I can say is how crappy everything is going with it.

zoom44

there have been 6 total flashes over 2 years. the first repaired some code that caused a false evap code when you locked the doors at the same time the evap test was running. a silly coding error. next was to adress flooding. and some hard start issues. next 2 we arent sure what they are for and now the recall flashes.

only 2 of those flashes were "mandatory" the intermediate ones it was not- as i hacve said many many times- NOT necessary to run out and get as you coul djust wait for a normal service interval. I myself am still on original M flash as i have had no other reason to go to the dealership since then

srm858

Zoom44 - Maybe my car has been more trouble prone or since I'm not familiar with rotaries I'm not used to the added care necessary. However, these are the issues I have now:

1. Sudden change in oil consumption
2. Rough idle
3. A/C is still weak after amp. installation (I sweat with everything pegged and I'm in New England!)
4. Recall for thermal issue.
5. Recall for control arms.

So, I will need to visit a dealer at least 2 more times before I put the car away for winter. That's 5 visits for me since April, when I started driving it again full time. I'm doing the oil changes myself, even though I have the free maintenance. The dealer did it once and put the cap on so tight I thought I would break off the filler neck getting it off. The oil filter was even worse.
So, 5 visits just to get things fixed in about 7 months. And I know these will not be my last visits.

zoom44

why would you go 2 more times? back to oil-

have you looked in the filter box or accordian tube yet?

RotaryGoober

I usually like to read your posts zoom, but you might have been a bit heavy handed with this fellow. Yes, flooding is inherrent in the design of a rotary. That does not make it acceptable in a modern day car. Mazda knew what it would take to correct the problem and they chose to ignore it. We hope that the latest flashes, battery and starter fix will make the problem go away forever. Poor gas mileage is what it is. You are correct, read the window sticker. It still should be better but it is what it is. You are correct on the control arms, just a bad batch from a supplier, something that will be easily corrected, probably at great expense to Mazda, that's no biggie. Now, the oil checking. Yes, it IS unacceptable to remove a piece of plastic to add oil. Especially on a motor that uses oil as part of the process. And the dipstick is hard to read, awkward to replace, and a bit of a pain in the ***. You rotary faithfull seem to want to accept less instead of demanding more. Just because it's a rotary doesn't excuse it's problems. The fellow wasn't bad mouthing the car, he really liked it. Mazda did some things really well with the 8. They also didn't fully do their homework with others. Hopefull the end result will be a better 8. I still enjoy your posts.

rxeightr

I believe Zoom took issue over the term 'under-engineered'.

That is where I also take issue. The engineers, in my opinion, did an outstanding job putting the RX-8 together. The relative lightweight of the vehicle, the handling characteristics on a brand-new chassis, the feedback from the electronic steering, the stock brake system lacks nothing with superior fade characteristics on the track, room for (4) adults, plus the best gas mileage & power from any previous n/a rotary.

Taking a cover off & on in five seconds to check the oil, does that truely negate the obvious engineering feats accomplished mentioned above?

Taking the RENESIS out of the equation, can you give me another n/a car available in the US that offers the above combination?

Go48

Yeah, and he can leave the damn cover off if it bothers him that much. Sheeesh!

RotaryGoober

The car may be 'over engineered' if anything. Now, where do you get the idea that the 8 is lightweight? The car is a overweight if anything. That's why the gearing in conjunction with the Renesis' characteristics end up giving such mediocre gas mileage. The car isn't lighweight... The chassis is great with incredible rigidity and crash worthiness. The stock brake system is excellent as have all the Rx7 models since 86 and especially the 3rd gen. Mazda does have it together there. The best gas mileage? Not quite.. 12A's in the early 80's would get 25 on the highway, no, they wouldn't carry 4 peeps or anywhere near the power, but they did get that mileage. Sure, the Renesis is the most refined rotary to date. If you take the Renesis out of the equation, there are many cars, that are as high tech, have great brakes and can carry four people... And yes Scarlet, the engine cover is one of the dumb things on the car. Does it negate what a technical marvel it is? Heck no.. it's just one of the dumb things about it.

RotaryGoober

You just have to love these guys. It's like Sir Galahad running to the side of fair maid Marrianne to defend her honor. We must defend you at all costs. We know you are chubby maid Marianne, we know you aren't as quick out of the chute maid Marianne, and we know to check your oil we have to take off that corset. But we love you anyway... Damn dude.. it's a really really great car. Lighten up. :D

srm858

Zoom44 - Yes, I did check the air filter box and accordion hose. No sign of any oil. It hasn't been quite long enough to know for sure, but oil usage seems to be returning to it's previous amount. I've gone about 500 miles since I added the last quart and I've only used about 1/4 quart.

My idle has gotten worse, though. I haven't had a check engine light come on for a while, so it must not be running too badly. I'm just going to drive it until I get the letter for the thermal recall. Then bring it in to have them check on the idle and A/C along with the recall. I don't want to wait until the control arm recall comes out to have all of it done at once. I'd like to have most of the issues taken care of before winter.

Marietta 8

I chose to leave the cover hanging on the wall in the shop. I did however leave the fuel line covers on the LS1 in my rx7.

Marietta 8

I am a firm believer that a corset looks better in a rumpled heap on the floor than it does on, plus they are a pain the *** to take off!

srm858

I agree with rxeightr that Mazda did a great job on the basics of the car. That's why I bought it. Some of the stuff just bugs me. I've been checking my oil a lot lately and have realized what a pain it is. If I do it in the garage, I have to get a flashlight to put the dipstick back in. Why isn't the top of the tube higher up and bright yellow like every other new car?

Also, I usually get good mileage with my cars. My other 3 cars usually hover around 30mpg. I've only gotten above 20 once in the RX8, on a long trip to New Jersey. The rest of the time its around 18. My friend with a Honda Pilot, gets 21 mpg day in and day out. It's embarassing. When this car was released, the Renesis was supposed to get much better mileage than old rotaries. If this is true, the old rotaries must have been getting around 12 to 14 mpg. No wonder other manufacturers' have ignored rotary engines.

My under-engineered comment does not imply the basic car is poorly designed, but they did not "sweat the details". From my perspective, it was rushed to market without enough testing. Why else would there be all these flashes and thermal issues? I expected a few bugs when I bought it, but not still fixing them 2 years down the road.

srm858

I had my recall work done. They inspected the control arms (they are fine) and put in the gas tank insulator. I told the dealer about the rough idle. They said they reprogrammed the PCU and it took care of the problem.

The rough idle is exactly the same as when I brought it in. I did not tell the dealer about the oil usage, because last time I did, they said 1000 miles per quart is within specs (even though I said I used a quart every 800). I've driven 700 miles since the last quart of oil was put in and I am at about the halfway mark between upper and lower. This should be about 3/4 of a quart low.

So, I am still having high oil usage and a rough idle. I have not read anything about high oil usage from anyone else. I doubt the dealer will do a thing for me. Any ideas out there? I don't want to sell this car, but I'm not comfortable with these problems.

icyur2

I have read on many threads that if you put in a synthetic differential & transmission fluid (Royal Purple -or- RedLine), that the rough idle will be resolved. Since your car has alot of miles on it, maybe it is time to replace the dino fluids to the synthetic? I plan on replacing mine @1500 miles because according to maintenance, they don't get changed out until 60k!! I'm not an expert on anything to deal with cars, but have read from many experience users that have claim that replacing it will resolve the "rough" idle...hope that helps!!

icyur2

Our of curiosity..what type of filter are you using? I've read that Puralator Plus or the Mazda's filter works best with any good quality 5w20 (Castrol, etc.)...

srm858

icyur2, thanks for the idea. I'm not sure it is the transmission or diff. fluid. Even with the clutch disengaged, the rough idle is still there.

I have used the Mazda filter and another filter I purchased from Greenfield Imported Auto Parts. They are in Greenfield, Mass and they always have excellent replacement parts. The filter they sent me looks identical to the Mazda, except it does not say Mazda on the side. On my VW and Fiat, they send me Mann filters from Germany. I don't remember who made the filter for the Mazda. I always use Castrol in all my cars except the VW, which now requires the use of synthetic. I use Mobil One in it.