8is>enuff

I have had problems with the service provided by my dealer, Schwartz Mazda, Shrewsbury, New Jersey. I've had two compression checks done due to a lack of power - one on a cold engine (see also: worthless), and the one on my warm engine was not up to spec.
See this - https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...79#post1174279 for my compression tests (pages 2 and 3).

They gave me my car back anyway. I have forwarded this service log to the GM of the dealership and the service advisor. I have also contacted MNAO and look forward to further correspondence with them. The following is a bit long, so I've broken it up. I provided it to them as a complete package. I appreciate any comments.

Thanks.

8is>enuff

Part 1.

I have begun to keep a log of my transactions with Schwartz Mazda, Shrewsbury, New Jersey as of 12/28/05 due to unsatisfactory service. Here is a synopsis of what has transpired between myself and the service advisor as well as the technician who performed the work on my 2004 Mazda RX-8. This log is also being shared with online Mazda RX8 owners and enthusiasts. The dates prior to December 27th, 2005 are to the best of my recollection.

December 20th, 2005. CEL came on. There was a noticeable lack of power. Accompanying symptoms over the previous few weeks included a faint coolant smell through the air vents on occasion and very high oil and gas consumption (much higher than normal for this vehicle). I visited the dealership on December 21st, 2005.

Noel informed me they had no loaners, and were short handed. She made me an appointment for the Wed. after Christmas (12/28/05). She told me it would be OK to drive the vehicle as long as there were no “drivability problems.” She told me to call on Tuesday (12/27/05) to secure a loaner. I also inquired about the 30K mile service, but told them to hold off on that until we learned what was currently wrong with my vehicle.

By December 23rd, I was having enough drivability problems to park the vehicle until I could get a service appointment. The coolant light was now illuminated.

December 27th. Called Noel, informed her I needed to bring the car in and pick up a loaner car, as I didn’t feel comfortable driving the vehicle. She agreed. I went to the garage and my car wouldn’t start. Called Roadside Assistance and accompanied the vehicle to Mazda. I added “vehicle will not start” to the list of problems to be addressed. At this time, I asked for a compression test to ensure I was within specs.

8is>enuff

Part 2

December 27th. Received a call from Noel informing me my car was fixed. When I asked what was wrong, she told me my vehicle had flooded and they fixed it per TSB. I then asked what triggered the CEL. She informed me my CEL came on because I needed a new flash. When I asked her to explain that to me (I knew it was false), she backtracked and informed me they had lost the code that had triggered the CEL when the mechanic replaced the battery (along with the starter and spark plugs) per flooding TSB. When I asked if they knew what triggered the CEL, she told me the mechanic guessed it was a misfire. Aside from the fact that I have ONLY used 93 Octane, and the fact that when my CEL went on I was cruising in fourth gear at about 4K RPMs, ready to shift to fifth gear, I do not want my mechanic guessing as to what is or isn’t wrong with my vehicle. Regardless, she informed me my car was fixed and asked for my permission to begin the 30K mile service.

Because they had not addressed the original CEL issue, I declined to allow them to begin the 30K service. Instead, I asked to drive the car for myself so I could feel more comfortable knowing the problem had been resolved. As I initiated my test drive I quickly discovered they had not performed a road test of my vehicle, which I would assume they should do with the problems I described. Not only was there no power, there was less power than when I dropped it off. I retained the loaner car, picked up the results to my compression test, and left a note for Noel, who had left for the day. The note explained that the original problem had not been resolved. I then left the dealership.

Upon returning home with my compression test in hand, I found out that all but one chamber of my rotors were short of spec (see attached compression inspection #1 and spec sheet). Add to that the fact that the RPMs during my test were higher than those in the spec sheet (which should have an accompanying RISE in measured compression), and I was becoming extremely dissatisfied with my service.

December 28th. Noel called. She informed me my loss of power was due to a clogged catalytic converter, and she had ordered one for me. No mention of the compression check. I took off work early to try to catch the mechanic who worked on my vehicle, Louis. According to Noel, Louis is her “A” guy. I arrived at 4:40. He was gone. I noted my questions on my compression check, specifically why would they give me my car back when I was so far under spec?

8is>enuff

Part 3

December 29th. Spoke with Louis, the mechanic who worked on my car. I asked him how he addressed the work on my car from the start. He changed his story several times, so I asked him what he did step-by-step. Keep in mind he changed the order several times. For example, he told me the battery was dead when I brought the vehicle into the dealership. That was not true. I did not kill the battery attempting to start the vehicle because I knew my engine was not working properly. I also was able to open my door and raise the windows as my car was being loaded onto the flatbed. When I informed him of this, he then told me there wasn’t enough juice left in the battery to pull the CEL code. This was different than what Noel told me. She informed me that they couldn’t check the CEL without the car on and running. Therefore, since my car wouldn’t start, they couldn’t pull the code. Here are Louis’ responses to my questions regarding the service he performed on my vehicle.

Tried to start the car. I didn’t ask if he hooked up more juice to the battery. It would seem important to make sure the battery did not die and erase the CEL, as that was the main reason I took my vehicle in for service. He informed me he couldn’t check the CEL because my battery was dead. When I told him it wasn’t dead when I dropped it off, he told me there wasn’t enough juice to pull a code.

Then he checked to see if it was flooded. It was. He proceeded to deflood the engine and apply the flooding service bulletin, including new starter and battery and hotter spark plugs.

He said the car still would not run, so he performed a compression inspection on a cold engine, which would skew the results, essentially rendering the inspection useless. I find it hard to believe a certified mechanic would ignore the third step in the procedures for performing a compression inspection. These results were presented to me without explanation.

He then informed me he didn’t perform a road test because it was 4:30 and he was leaving. When I seemed not too happy about that, he changed his story to say that I was asking for my vehicle back to do my own road test. At that time, I informed him Noel had called me and informed me my vehicle was ready to be picked up before I asked to perform the road test. This is not acceptable.

I asked Louis to perform a compression inspection the correct way once the new catalytic converter is installed.

8is>enuff

Part 4.

December 29th, 2005. Received a phone call from Noel. She informed me my vehicle was ready to be picked up. When I got there, she apologized for informing me the work to my vehicle was completed on December 27th, saying she took responsibility for a miscommunication between herself and Louis. I took my vehicle for a test drive, and the lack of speed problem was no longer present.

I returned to the service center somewhat satisfied for the first time during this whole ordeal. I then asked for the results of my compression inspection (attached compression inspection #2). I was concerned that according to the spec. sheet, it appeared I was still under the minimum. I don’t know if Louis did not understand the correlation between RPM’s and the kPa readings of each chamber. I informed him of the relationship between the two, at which point he compared my kPa readings to those of a brand new engine, which he said were about 800kPa. I asked if those tests were done at 250RPM, and he said yes. I then reminded him that my most recent test was done at 305RPM (rotor 1) and 307RPM (rotor 2). I was not provided an acceptable answer to my questions.

At this point I was no longer comfortable with the service provided by the service center, so I signed off on the warranty work and drove away. I will be making an appointment at another dealership to handle the rest of my service matters.

8is>enuff

Part 5.
Points of interest:

I do not feel I can believe anything either Noel or Louis tells me. I don’t know if it’s incompetence or apathy but I do know it is not how a service center earns the business of an informed customer. Each changed their stories so many times I felt I had to keep a log of what they were telling me, and I have resorted to taking notes during my conversations with them so they can no longer change stories.

The fact that the service adviser called me and informed me my car was fixed when in fact they had not addressed the original problem. She told me everything was fine, and wanted to begin the 30K mile service when they had not even performed a road test. A brief drive would have made apparent the obvious problem with the vehicle. When a customer complains about lack of power, a road test should be standard procedure in order to ensure the vehicle performed up to spec before it was returned.

I asked for a compression check to be performed due to the lack of power. I received a printout of the test. The numbers on the printout were way below spec. Louis informed me this was because the vehicle was cold. When I asked for a compression check, I expected to be able to utilize the results. The printout provided to me was worthless if it was done on a cold engine and unacceptable done on a warm one.

8is>enuff

I was told other falsehoods by the service manager and technician, but it was impossible to add them all and still have a cohesive log. I mean them told me completely different stories regarding my service and then changed them around when I questioned it.

I have deliberatively left the dealer name out of these posts. If anyone in NJ would like to know which dealership to steer clear of, PM me.

Thanks for reading. If you made it this far.

DJ Freon

Do you have low power problems all the time? I'm having a similar problem, but it moslty happens when the motor is cold, and it's most significant below 4000 RPM. I've taken my car to the dealer 10 times, and they still haven't fixed it, and are denying that there's even a problem.

8is>enuff

No. The loss of power was progressive and in the high RPMs. I eventually wasn't able to hit redline in 2nd gear. My loss of power was attributed to a clogged cat, and was resolved, though my RX8 does not have as much power now as when I drove it off the lot. It just wasn't terribly noticable. Luckily the clogged cat convinced me to get a compression check.

I do have the problem of very sluggish acceleration under 3250RPM when cold, but I thought (and still think) that's by nature/design.

Brice-RX8

8is>enuff, good write up, hopefully something is done about your experience. It is sad that sometimes people have to go to the extent that you have to get satisfaction with a dealership. I guess I am lucky enough to have a dealer that has done everything, each time I have gone in there to make sure I am happy.

On a different note, I believe that the latest flash "R" (heat recall) has something to do with the power and idle other than controling the stationary throttle down that is was advertised as. I know with my car since that flash I have had more vibration at idle, lower rpm's are somewhat weaker, mid-range is actually better than "P", and the upper rpm's are about the same between "P" and "R".

I hope you get the resolution you are looking for with that dealer.

Cam

iTrader: (1)

I feel for you regarding your dealership experiences, but I hate it when owners complain about poor service, etc and refuse/dont include the name of the entity involved. Include the name of the dealership involved. If your experience (and documentation of the accounts) are true you should not feel libel of making a possible slanderous accusation.

Dont take this the wrong way, but Im sick of reading posts like this without all of the relevant information.
Hope everything works out for you.

8is>enuff

Brice - I've been on R flash for several months I believe. At this point I'm basically just upset with my compression results, and the general service experience.

I agree somewhat. At first, I wasn't sure whether or not to mention their name, but I don't think throwing it out there would add anything to my argument. This way it at least it isn't a personal attack on the dealership or any individuals involved. I mentioned in my letter to MazdaNA and the dealership that I would be sharing my experiences with fellow 8 owners online. If they decided to check it out and came on here only to see me bashing the dealership and involved parties, it would negatively affect my credibility and take away from my argument.

In one of the posts, I offered to divulge the dealership name to any local owners via PM so they may steer clear of them. That offer still stands.

VOODOO8

8is>enuff:

You might want to check out this thread https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/blown-motor-77861/ as well as one of the cross-linked threads embedded in same.

Good Luck!

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

You WERE lucky "enuff" to get the new starter - that is why your compression test shows higher RPMs. You never will get the slower test you want, because your starter is faster.

S

8is>enuff

I don't want the slower test. I didn't mean to come across that way. I don't care what my cranking speed is, I just want the technician to realize there's a right and wrong way to read the chart (I have it, but it's too big to attach and I don't have the tools to resize it on this computer - it's available on this site somewhere). If it wasn't a sliding scale there would be no need for a diagram, just target compression numbers.

All I wanted was for the tech to realize that the pressure readings are directly related to cranking speed, and an increase in RPMs during the test should have an accompanying rise in compression. I showed him the diagram that charts the relationship and they just basically gave me my keys back and said you're done.

8is>enuff

Seeing as Schwartz Mazda, Shrewsbury, New Jersey didn't feel my complaint was worthy of a response, I figure they have more important things to do.

8is>enuff

Update.

Spoke with the Service Manager. He didn't want to deal with me at all. He told me at least twice that I mentioned in my letter that I was not planning on going to their service department anymore. He then told me to go somewhere else - he didn't care.

Accordiing to him and the service technician my car was fixed and within specs. I disagreed and tried to begin a discussion as to why I disagreed, at which point he cut me off and told me he wasn't going to get in a long conversation with me.

When I asked why I still had an open complaint, he informed me I didn't. I then asked why Ramsey Mazda said I did, and asked when the complaint was opened and when it was closed. He could not provide either date.

I then asked him how I could get in touch with the DCSM. He told me to call the 800 number. I informed him I had already done that and they (operator at the 800#) said the GM of the dealership would have to recommend the DCSM get in touch with me. I then asked if there was a way either for me to call the DCSM or to have him call me, and he said, "I can't tell the DCSM what to do" with an attitude. I then asked if I could call the DCSM myself. He would not provide a contact number for him, though when asked informed me he speaks with him all the time.

I am on my way to the dealership to speak with the GM. I will update shortly.

8is>enuff

I went to the dealership and the GM wasn't there. The receptionist took my name and number and gave me the GM's card. It was a generic business card with the GMs name handwritten on it, and she explained the GM is new. Now I don't know if he or the old GM received my complaint. I hope it was the old one, and I hope he got fired for poor customer service. Or maybe the new one has/had so much on his plate he hasn't been able to get to it yet, or it slipped through the cracks. Time will tell. At least I can't imaginie the service being any worse.

8is>enuff

Now it's getting interesting. Read on.

I spoke with the GM of Schwartz, Greg Munez. He called me last night at about 6:30pm and left a message (this will be important later). I called him back today and we spoke.

I got a complete brush-off. Greg told me I had to go to the dealership where I purchased the car (Irwin Mazda) to have my issues addressed. He also said that he would not provide a contact number for the DCSM, that I had to get it from the 800#. I asked him to have the DCSM contact me, and he once again directed me to my original dealership and/or the 800#.

I told him he was brushing me off and trying to dump me onto another dealership. He then told me if I was still within 50 miles of Irwin Mazda, MazdaNA prefers I address the issue with them. Right. I informed him it is a warranty issue, and that my complaint was with Schwartz Mazda, so Schwartz Mazda should be the one to rectify the situation, or at least contact the next level of customer support. He told me I am no longer a customer of theirs so he doesn't have to deal with me.

This is all going into the log, and I plan on forwarding an updated version to MNAO. This is completely unacceptable.

Oh, about the time of the call last night. You're not going to believe this. I got a PM from ILuvMyCar411 yesterday at 6:57pm with the heading "That was easy" and a subject of "Found You". This particular member joined on 1-17-06. I responded with "I didn't know I was hiding. Who is this?" So far no response. I don't expect one. Apparently they think I'm an idiot.

During the conversation with the GM, I asked if anybody from his dealership contacted me and he responded by saying he has 60 employees (what a f@cking copout, there's only about three that know of my issues) and he couldn't know if any of them had contacted me. I told him to make sure they do not do that again and we ended the conversation.

VOODOO8

FYI - same game happened with me around my service issues. My dealer would not provide me with contact info for the regional rep. in my area (NH - Mark Bailey is his name) and MNAO said that information could only be given out by the dealer. As with you, I documented the whole thing in my complaint letter to the dealer as regualtions for pursuing an action with Attorney General's office in NH mandates that the issue first have been run through channels with the dealer/manufacturer.

I also got the mystery email from a stranger at a strange email address advising I had been "found" and how was I enjoying my RX-8. I directed him to the link I have here on RX8club.com (https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=77861) and told him to figure it out for himself.

Haze

You guys are not exactly making me feel warm and fuzzy about Mazda . . . not that I was already, but this sounds like Richard Nixon's enemies list. "I found you" e-mails, lord have mercy on us all. They must be as stupid as they are poor at their jobs.

I have one question for you. When you said that Ramsey Mazda found an "open complaint" what do you mean by that? That you had a problem with your car that was as of yet unresolved or something else? Just curious.

8is>enuff

I'm not sure exactly what it meant.

From Ramsey's point of view, it meant that Mazda would not pay for another compression check. Not Ramsey's fault - they've been quite helpful.

According to Schwartz, I did not have an open complaint. They contend that once I signed off on my warranty work, they were done with me.

I believe it's a Mazda safeguard against pitting one dealer against another and/or "shopping dealers". In other words, if a warranty issue is addressed at one dealer and the customer (i.e. me) is not happy with the work, he can't have the same issue addressed under warranty at another dealer.

lefty63

Sorry about all the dealership problems.

Makes me feel very lucky to have a dealership to address and repair any issues I have and to do the TSb's without me even asking. I guess it helps the mechanic who works on my 8 has a 7.

Haze

I'm sort of interested in this "open complaint" thing because I had a problem with the dealer that I bought my car from. When I picked the car up, it was pretty obvious that they had done very little to prep it, and I had a misfire that was really bothering me. I called and gave the service rep my list of stuff most of which was small time and the misfire. I go to drop it off, and I'm walking to the waiting room, I hear him say, "there's the f**king a****ole who called in with a laundry list of b**ls**t."

I took exception to what he said, which he flatly denied to my face, although he seemed fine with talking to my back. Anyway, I got a form from Mazda asking how my service was. They got commensurately poor marks from me with an accompanying letter quoting what he said to me. I immediately stopped using that dealer and switched to another.

Since then, I have recieved no comment forms or update material from Mazda that others have gotten, and I have gotten the sense from the other dealer that I am considered a problem customer although I have never asked for a warranty repair and almost never see the dealer except for oil changes. I'm wondering if there is some sort of in house flag for customers that dealers and MNAO don't like.

Then again it could be my own paranoia, or it could just be that neither of the dealers I am using have a good attitude towards customer service.

8is>enuff

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Did you inform the second dealership that you had problems with the other's service center?

As for the "open complaint" deal, if I find anything out definitively I'll let you know.