RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Here is an article from an aviation site of a similar nut-dropped-into-engine pics: Aviation Rotary Engines

Not many, small and dark, but give a better idea of the damage a single nut can do.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The apex seals don't last long with the side seal bits smacking around in there .....

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Yeah the apex seal damage is almost identical with that groove in the rotor.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Make sure that as part of your case, you specifically call out the damage from other objects that would leave an impact like that nut did on the above rotor, from getting smashed between the housing and the rotor on the compression and exhaust phases. Since there is ONLY damage from seals flying around visible from your engine, the damage was only caused by seals. Anything else in there and we would see damage corresponding to what the dimensions of that object was.

And once the above point is understood, then it rules out foreign object damage. All damage came from components already inside the engine that were supposed to be there. Poor assembly quality on Mazda's part.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Wow can you believe it? Mazda won't return my calls now.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Alright just got ahold of MRTC (Mazda Reman Training Center) and the told me the car was dyno'd for 25 minutes in August. The compression for the front was 8.1, 8.4, 8.3 and the rear was 8.4, 8.2, 8.6, oil pressure at 4000 rpm was 78 and oil pressure at 1000 rpm was 27. This is the report that they read to me so I asked if they could send me a copy via email. The response was they need to check with the I.T. department to see if that's allowed and I should hear something by the end of the day. They are also saying something must have come through the intake and broken off the side seal. Not sure if that makes any sense or not.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Only makes sense if it was a random left over side seal that was left in the intake instead of being installed in your engine.


That 1,000rpm oil pressure reading seems REALLY low. Maybe it is roughly accurate though.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Nah that oil pressure reading is accurate, I see less than that at idle when fully warm.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

4000rpm @ 78psi? **** that

and that **** was cause by some internal failure, if its a nut even just a washer fell into it, the damages will be far worst, the seals probably installed wrong or they reused some way out of spec rotor, it fell.out of its slot and kaboom!

not even the first time mazda "outsourced" plant did some botched rebuild. why are they even surprised like it has never.happened before?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure it's a money thing, but I've often wondered why Mazda doesn't contract rebuilders like Mazmart, Racing Beat, etc... for the reman rebuilds. Volume is once concern, money is another big one. But still.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Mazda has no interest in building quality reman engines, they just need them to last long enough to get you past the warranty period. I know early on when the failures started popping up Rob at Pineapple, Mazdatrix and some other builders were involved in a project to document failures and report the findings and feedback to Mazda. A few of the builders stopped participating because what they were reporting and recomending was falling on deaf ears and they just felt like it was a waste of time.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Alright just finished up another interesting conversation. The operations supervisor sent me the report of the testing and insisted that the motor was dyno'd for 25 minutes without any failures. They said if there was a problem with the assembly it would have shown up then. I also talked to Brian at BDC Motorsports (very helpful by the way) and he concurred that it is possible that foreign debris might have entered the motor but not 100%. Mazda also told me the seals in the picture were pulled out and examined and that one of them broke off due to foreign debris.
So we have a damaged motor and no one is taking responsibility. Now I just need to figure out the next step and I'll be all set.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Well Mazda just called me back.
Warranty claim is DENIED!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well, from your perspective, it's not actually all that bad. Not fantastic, but it doesn't automatically put the cost on you.

If Mazda refuses to cover it with documented evidence that the engine was fine when it left the reman facility and was damaged from debris getting dropped in, and you paid a shop to do the install, then Mazda's documentation and "proof" basically hands the bill to the shop that did the repair.

You didn't get your hands involved with the install itself right? Fault can't be put on you, it's either Mazda or the shop. I don't know what kind of reputation you have with the shop or what your choices/decision there would be, but if I was in your shoes, I'd present everything to the shop that did the install.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

at this stage, i think you are out of luck, this is why if i have to get it rebuild, i will either choose to do.it myself, or have some good & reliable company like mazmart to do it

if i did it myself, i know i fuxked up and i cant blame.anyone but my own dum self

i trust mazmart 100% on their quality. so if something goes wrong, its still my fault.

if i want to save money, the best way is to buy a reman from mazda, open the engine yourself.and check everything before i will even try to turn it on

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

and im wondering how do.they tell if something went into.the engine and.ate.an.apex seal?

have they actually found any questionable object in the engine? just so you know apex seal can break in short period of time(after 25 mins of dyno), especially if the rotor has issues.to.begin with

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

We have a compression tester here.
NYCGPS, will have to look you up next time I come to the big apple.
I have an awesome relationship with the shop and they have gone above and beyond to help me out multiple times so I have alot more trust in them than the dealership. The intake manifold was thoroughly cleaned before install and the did all the work himself.
Right now I'm scrambling to find a used engine with low miles.
Finding a good deal will allow me to take on an interesting project that should be promising.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Thx man. but bad news is I'm moving out of the country early next month, got some opportunities overseas and I wanna try something b4 40.

good news is from time to time I will still be back to NYC, family is here afterall.

I hear ya man, I have a feeling it's just some utter bs from Mazda outsourced plant, I mean the picture is showing EXACTLY what happens when a seal decided its time to "go". Foreign object will scrape the whole rotor and housing and will cause much worst looking damage than what they are showing.

Finding a used low mileage engine might be hard, but from time to time I did see some good deals post up either here or ebay. check them out.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

NEWSFLASH!
So after Mazda told me they wouldn't cover the damage from the engine, I happened to find another engine for sale from another cool owner. Once we worked out the deal, two days later Mazda gives me another call.
Check this, they told me the price of reassembling my old motor and returning it to me would be too much so they just sent me another fresh motor. Awesome news except for the fact that I already worked out a deal for a motor.
So now I just went from 0-2 motors! Once I get a few pictures I'll probably post this new reman on the for sale section.
What do you guys think a fair price is? I'm thinking of letting it go for $2500 or even possibly swapping for a turbo kit if someone is looking to return back to stock.
What do you guys think?

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Real question is which one will ultimately be more reliable.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Did you tell them you wanted the old one back?

Sounds like damage control to me ...They didn't want you getting the old one back...and sueing them ...this is a lot cheaper...not sure why they didn't do it in the first place

Bladecutter

After all that, just sell the used engine, and install the reman in your car.
Unless the used engine is something special, just let it go.

Or, run a compression test on both, and use the better engine.

BC.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

+1 !!!!

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

The used one was just rebuilt with the help of a local rotary builder with "better" side and apex seals with 0 miles. Compression, vacuum, various other tests were done but the car hasn't been driven as the owner decided to part out the car. I just happened to get first dibs on the motor. Either way it's going to BDC Motorsports for a rebuild and goodies. Hopefully it will be up and running in two weeks.

Dannobre-I did tell them I wanted the old one back and that's when they told me they sent me a new one all of a sudden. I was actually in the process of going down the legal route, maybe I still should. I am happy that they are sending me a new motor but it's a little too late. Anyway you look at it though, 2 motors is better than none and for that I'm appreciative.