My car is dead .Stealership giving me the run around
Did you have less than 60,000 on the odo? If you are within powertrain warranty, it should be completely free, if you are outside of powertrain but within extended core, then you have to pay for stuff that needs to be replaced that they can't re-use, but isn't actually part of the engine core. It typically runs $500-$600.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Westerville Ohio
This isn't auto insurance.... people please get that out of your heads.
This is flat out liability insurance by a business to protect itself from lawsuit losses. If what it takes to make him whole is to buy him an RX-8 and get those $9,000 in mods installed, then that is what will have to happen.
Likely, he won't specifically require it, but legally, he has that right. Auto insurance applies vehicle and parts depreciation into the calculation. This DOES NOT APPLY here.
THIS IS NOT AN AUTO INSURANCE ISSUE.
This is flat out liability insurance by a business to protect itself from lawsuit losses. If what it takes to make him whole is to buy him an RX-8 and get those $9,000 in mods installed, then that is what will have to happen.
Likely, he won't specifically require it, but legally, he has that right. Auto insurance applies vehicle and parts depreciation into the calculation. This DOES NOT APPLY here.
THIS IS NOT AN AUTO INSURANCE ISSUE.
The fact that it is a 91,000 mile RX-8 has absolutely NOTHING to do with it, is what I am telling you.
He could easily sue and get a judgment of $25,000, $50,000, or more from this. Negligence on the part of the dealer. (Not changing that fuel hose) Most states even have a multiplier in negligence based claims. I don't recommend that route, but asking for, and getting, the full $19k isn't something that should be difficult based on the circumstances.
The value of the base vehicle is only of passing interest in the matter.
He could easily sue and get a judgment of $25,000, $50,000, or more from this. Negligence on the part of the dealer. (Not changing that fuel hose) Most states even have a multiplier in negligence based claims. I don't recommend that route, but asking for, and getting, the full $19k isn't something that should be difficult based on the circumstances.
The value of the base vehicle is only of passing interest in the matter.
In case it matters, I do have personal experience here. I went through 3 years of suing Toyota and one of their dealers after the dealer's negligence destroyed the car. The value of the car itself didn't matter. I was easily able to lump car payments, insurance payments, loss work time, and even towing expenses in with the actual cost of the damage.
The value of the car is only of passing interest in the matter.
The value of the car is only of passing interest in the matter.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 76
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From: Westerville Ohio
All your doing is proving my original statement that the OP likely has a fight on his hands with the evil insurance empire. Thanks.In all seriousness, I hope the dealership and their insurance carrier make things right for the OP.
Last edited by Go Steelers; Jun 2, 2010 at 10:01 AM.
Most of that 3 years was dealing with an incompetent lawyer on my end and painfully learning everything I am trying to impart here. If it happened to me again, it would be significantly easier.
It also makes it quite a bit easier for the OP that the damage occurred while it was in the dealer's hands, and there is solid public record that it was (fire department was called after all), unlike mine where the negligence wasn't apparent for some time until my drivetrain welded itself together (those seals are important!).
It also makes it quite a bit easier for the OP that the damage occurred while it was in the dealer's hands, and there is solid public record that it was (fire department was called after all), unlike mine where the negligence wasn't apparent for some time until my drivetrain welded itself together (those seals are important!).
The fact that it is a 91,000 mile RX-8 has absolutely NOTHING to do with it, is what I am telling you.
He could easily sue and get a judgment of $25,000, $50,000, or more from this. Negligence on the part of the dealer. (Not changing that fuel hose) Most states even have a multiplier in negligence based claims. I don't recommend that route, but asking for, and getting, the full $19k isn't something that should be difficult based on the circumstances.
The value of the base vehicle is only of passing interest in the matter.
He could easily sue and get a judgment of $25,000, $50,000, or more from this. Negligence on the part of the dealer. (Not changing that fuel hose) Most states even have a multiplier in negligence based claims. I don't recommend that route, but asking for, and getting, the full $19k isn't something that should be difficult based on the circumstances.
The value of the base vehicle is only of passing interest in the matter.
where's the OP with an update though?
So here's the UPDATE guys after a month it is still on going.I really don't wish this on anybody, after what I"m still having to go through.
After the dealers insurance contacted me with a claim number I called up my insurance company to make a report. After about 3 days or so later reporting it, my own insurance company was trying to offer me a settlement of 9000. Which is unacceptable imo. I still owe 7000 that would only leave me with 2000 in my pocket and no car. Which is complete BS. I go in to a dealer with a car with 9000 in parts and leave with 2000 in my pocket. That just not right.
When I went to go get the plates off my car that day the dealers insurance adjuster was there also appraising my car still. I was like this is odd my insurance is trying to give me a settlement without even communicating with the dealers insurance. Later on I get a call from the dealers insurance company saying that they were a little confused. They wanted to know if i was going through my insurance or there insurance. So i told them that I was going through mine to deal with you guys. I though that was just the normal procedure, that what you pay your insurance for. After telling the lady that I guess she contacted my insurance and closed the claim on their end and I had to do everything through my insurance. Which is now turning into a nightmare.
I was told by a client of mine that works for an insurance company that I didn't have to go through my insurance and that I should withdraw the claim and go back through the dealers insurance. I called up the dealers insurance and when I told them I was going to withdraw the claim from my insurance and deal directly with the. The lady from their insurance told me it was to late and that its out of there hands. Which is complete B.S., because they are still responsible and I know she just said that because they don't want to deal with it. So now I'm getting the run around from there insurance.
So I called up my insurance. My insurance is treating it if is some sort of accident. They want me to pay a 500 dollar deductible. I don't think I have to pay for anything and on top of that only offering me 9000 for everything. Thats lower than the actual value of the car through kelly blue book and nadaguides. I told them that unacceptable. I asked them what about the parts list I faxed them that had receipts for almost $9000 worth of parts. They told me that they didn't want to pay for any of that. I was like WTF.Your not paying me, they should be pursuing money from the dealers insurance. She said they offer me a settlement first then deal with them after. I though they dealt with them in real time.?. The lady from my insurance was like well if you were to sell those parts at a yard sale or something you wouldn't be getting the full value. Im like that makes absolutely no sense. Im not trying to sell my parts at a damn yards sale and on top of that even if i did I would make something out of it. Im trying to get paid to make it as if this all never happened in the first place. Now both companies are just giving me the complete run a round.
I said enough is enough. So I ended up getting a lawyer, which could either be a bad thing or a good thing, because I"d have to pay him also which might not be worth it in the end. He was telling how they have to pay for the car and the parts. if they don't pay or something we can sue for triple damage or something like. He said you might not get 100% for the parts but you should be getting something. After about 3 weeks now he was able to get it to 13000 which still sucks because after paying him 1/4 Im still where i was at 9000.I still owe 7000 on this car so that would leave me with 2000 in my pocket and no car still as I said before. I asked the lawyer about the parts and he said its a little better than the 9000. I told him 11000 to 12000 is where the value of the car should be without the parts. He said hes going to try to get more but 13000 looks like that might be as far as theyll offer because he said wether the 11000 or 12000 is the value of the its still better than the 9000 they were going to offer. WTF. He should be trying to get more no matter what. Sounds like he gave up and what about the triple damage he was talking about earlier. Probably just feeding me stuff that sounded good. I'd rather sue for triple.
Since this whole thing started I've had a rental. I just checked my statements today and for the past 4 days now i've been getting charged everyday for it. WTF. Now I'm really pissed after I've been told they were going to pay for it, which I should. I called up the lawyer and asked him about it and told him about the rental he said he'll call them up and get them to pay for it.Hopefully. I also asked him how the whole case is going he said he still at 13000. I told him that still not enough. At this point it sounds like he's not doing much of anything anymore. At this point I'd be happy with 14000 or 15000 just to get it over with. I told him i need more than that so he's going to try to talk to them some more and that where its all at now. What a freaking nightmare. I wish none of this ever happened in the first place. God help me. I hope none of you have to go through any of this.
After the dealers insurance contacted me with a claim number I called up my insurance company to make a report. After about 3 days or so later reporting it, my own insurance company was trying to offer me a settlement of 9000. Which is unacceptable imo. I still owe 7000 that would only leave me with 2000 in my pocket and no car. Which is complete BS. I go in to a dealer with a car with 9000 in parts and leave with 2000 in my pocket. That just not right.
When I went to go get the plates off my car that day the dealers insurance adjuster was there also appraising my car still. I was like this is odd my insurance is trying to give me a settlement without even communicating with the dealers insurance. Later on I get a call from the dealers insurance company saying that they were a little confused. They wanted to know if i was going through my insurance or there insurance. So i told them that I was going through mine to deal with you guys. I though that was just the normal procedure, that what you pay your insurance for. After telling the lady that I guess she contacted my insurance and closed the claim on their end and I had to do everything through my insurance. Which is now turning into a nightmare.
I was told by a client of mine that works for an insurance company that I didn't have to go through my insurance and that I should withdraw the claim and go back through the dealers insurance. I called up the dealers insurance and when I told them I was going to withdraw the claim from my insurance and deal directly with the. The lady from their insurance told me it was to late and that its out of there hands. Which is complete B.S., because they are still responsible and I know she just said that because they don't want to deal with it. So now I'm getting the run around from there insurance.
So I called up my insurance. My insurance is treating it if is some sort of accident. They want me to pay a 500 dollar deductible. I don't think I have to pay for anything and on top of that only offering me 9000 for everything. Thats lower than the actual value of the car through kelly blue book and nadaguides. I told them that unacceptable. I asked them what about the parts list I faxed them that had receipts for almost $9000 worth of parts. They told me that they didn't want to pay for any of that. I was like WTF.Your not paying me, they should be pursuing money from the dealers insurance. She said they offer me a settlement first then deal with them after. I though they dealt with them in real time.?. The lady from my insurance was like well if you were to sell those parts at a yard sale or something you wouldn't be getting the full value. Im like that makes absolutely no sense. Im not trying to sell my parts at a damn yards sale and on top of that even if i did I would make something out of it. Im trying to get paid to make it as if this all never happened in the first place. Now both companies are just giving me the complete run a round.
I said enough is enough. So I ended up getting a lawyer, which could either be a bad thing or a good thing, because I"d have to pay him also which might not be worth it in the end. He was telling how they have to pay for the car and the parts. if they don't pay or something we can sue for triple damage or something like. He said you might not get 100% for the parts but you should be getting something. After about 3 weeks now he was able to get it to 13000 which still sucks because after paying him 1/4 Im still where i was at 9000.I still owe 7000 on this car so that would leave me with 2000 in my pocket and no car still as I said before. I asked the lawyer about the parts and he said its a little better than the 9000. I told him 11000 to 12000 is where the value of the car should be without the parts. He said hes going to try to get more but 13000 looks like that might be as far as theyll offer because he said wether the 11000 or 12000 is the value of the its still better than the 9000 they were going to offer. WTF. He should be trying to get more no matter what. Sounds like he gave up and what about the triple damage he was talking about earlier. Probably just feeding me stuff that sounded good. I'd rather sue for triple.
Since this whole thing started I've had a rental. I just checked my statements today and for the past 4 days now i've been getting charged everyday for it. WTF. Now I'm really pissed after I've been told they were going to pay for it, which I should. I called up the lawyer and asked him about it and told him about the rental he said he'll call them up and get them to pay for it.Hopefully. I also asked him how the whole case is going he said he still at 13000. I told him that still not enough. At this point it sounds like he's not doing much of anything anymore. At this point I'd be happy with 14000 or 15000 just to get it over with. I told him i need more than that so he's going to try to talk to them some more and that where its all at now. What a freaking nightmare. I wish none of this ever happened in the first place. God help me. I hope none of you have to go through any of this.
That sucks dude. Since your going through your own insurance though I have a feeling they won't give u anything for the mods on the car unless you also had insurance for the parts. Seems like you would of been better off dealing with the dealer directly, maybe your lawyer can look into that. Best of luck, keep us updated.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 76
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From: Westerville Ohio
You should have RIWWP represent you...this was supposed to be easy. Sounds like you are getting the total run around from both insurance companies...and now your lawyer.
I'm not going to rant about the mistakes you made with talking to them...I'm fairly sure you are fully aware.
Best of luck, hope it turns out in your favor. Doesn't sound like the lawyer is going to win any awards...
Best of luck, hope it turns out in your favor. Doesn't sound like the lawyer is going to win any awards...
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 47
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From: New Bedford, MA
I think I'd be on the phone to the people at the dealer's insurance every day, 5 or 6 times a day. Until they were so f'ing sick of hearing my voice that they'd try to fix the problem just so I'd stop calling.
The dealer should be giving you the value of your car plus the value of all the parts they set on fire. It's not a sale, depreciation of what the parts would be worth in a sale should never come into play, they should be paying you for the money they cost you.
The dealer should be giving you the value of your car plus the value of all the parts they set on fire. It's not a sale, depreciation of what the parts would be worth in a sale should never come into play, they should be paying you for the money they cost you.
EveryonesFavouritePenguin
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From: Stoney Creek, Ontario
Yeah, seriously. I think you should look into a lawyer that specializes in insurance claims.
Or look up the laws yourself to save on fees.
You need to go through this whole process thinking 'does this put me back in the same financial position as before my car was on fire?' if not, then it hasn't been done properly.
Now as far as it goes, there IS depreciation of stuff. But the thing is that EVEN considering depreciation, you should be able to get another rx8.
Case in point.
If you bought your rx8 the DAY the rx8 released, they probably wouldn't still give you the 40 grand it was originally worth. But they should give you the 12-ish grand you would need to buy another like rx8 with like kilometers/miles. That would cover you for the car. For argument sake, let's say that the 9 grand in mods is in the form of 1 turbo kit setup, and its impossible to find used parts. If the only way to REPLACE the parts is by buying full pop brand new parts, then that's what they have to do. Their insurance covers everything in your car. Stereo, mods, rims... hell, even a laptop and cd's that were left in it (again for argument sake) this isn't an auto accident, or an auto claim. It's a property claim for them, and they need to replace it in a prudent and reasonable matter.
If the money they offer isn't enough to cover it, reject their claim offer. Keep doing that and make sure you have receipts to show the value of all the mods. It's not mandatory, but it helps a lot.
Or look up the laws yourself to save on fees.
You need to go through this whole process thinking 'does this put me back in the same financial position as before my car was on fire?' if not, then it hasn't been done properly.
Now as far as it goes, there IS depreciation of stuff. But the thing is that EVEN considering depreciation, you should be able to get another rx8.
Case in point.
If you bought your rx8 the DAY the rx8 released, they probably wouldn't still give you the 40 grand it was originally worth. But they should give you the 12-ish grand you would need to buy another like rx8 with like kilometers/miles. That would cover you for the car. For argument sake, let's say that the 9 grand in mods is in the form of 1 turbo kit setup, and its impossible to find used parts. If the only way to REPLACE the parts is by buying full pop brand new parts, then that's what they have to do. Their insurance covers everything in your car. Stereo, mods, rims... hell, even a laptop and cd's that were left in it (again for argument sake) this isn't an auto accident, or an auto claim. It's a property claim for them, and they need to replace it in a prudent and reasonable matter.
If the money they offer isn't enough to cover it, reject their claim offer. Keep doing that and make sure you have receipts to show the value of all the mods. It's not mandatory, but it helps a lot.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
Don't know if you have talked to the Dealer Principal/Owner of the Mazda Dealership as I suggested??..would be good if you replied.
Next step Mazda NAO, after all you were having engine replaced under warranty..were you not?
The Mazda DEALER working on behalf of MNAO and MMC Japan was and had replaced your engine, a gas fire resulted because of negligence by the Dealer Mechanic/Tech and Destroyed your car.
YOUR CAR NEEDS TO BE REPLACED AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE ORIGINAL.
That is the issue...
If they can't replace with same, they have to pay you out with the same...so you can BUY similar.
IMO depreciation does not come into it...this is not a car accident or any fault of the insured owner (YOU)., it is not 'any' cost Your insurance company should bear at all.
THE MAZDA DEALER HAS TO PUT THIS RIGHT....NO ONE ELSE.
IF HIS/THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY YOU OUT AN AMOUNT THE DEALER PRINCIPAL HAS TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE....SIMPLE.
Next step Mazda NAO, after all you were having engine replaced under warranty..were you not?
The Mazda DEALER working on behalf of MNAO and MMC Japan was and had replaced your engine, a gas fire resulted because of negligence by the Dealer Mechanic/Tech and Destroyed your car.
YOUR CAR NEEDS TO BE REPLACED AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE ORIGINAL.
That is the issue...
If they can't replace with same, they have to pay you out with the same...so you can BUY similar.
IMO depreciation does not come into it...this is not a car accident or any fault of the insured owner (YOU)., it is not 'any' cost Your insurance company should bear at all.
THE MAZDA DEALER HAS TO PUT THIS RIGHT....NO ONE ELSE.
IF HIS/THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY YOU OUT AN AMOUNT THE DEALER PRINCIPAL HAS TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE....SIMPLE.
Sydney, Australia
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 1
From: Sydney, Australia
I just came across this thread via the new, related, part out thread. Its all quite shocking - which leads me to ask if anyone makes a replacement set of fuel lines in something more fire proof than PVC tubing?
No offense, but I have to wonder why you would bother?
I mean, if the line comes free, and there is a fuel fire in your engine bay, the last thing you should be worried about is if the fuel line itself is going to burn. It's already too late.
The issue is the fuel line attachment, and the security of that attachment, so that a fire isn't started in the first place.
I mean, if the line comes free, and there is a fuel fire in your engine bay, the last thing you should be worried about is if the fuel line itself is going to burn. It's already too late.
The issue is the fuel line attachment, and the security of that attachment, so that a fire isn't started in the first place.
Sydney, Australia
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 1
From: Sydney, Australia
No offense, but I have to wonder why you would bother?
I mean, if the line comes free, and there is a fuel fire in your engine bay, the last thing you should be worried about is if the fuel line itself is going to burn. It's already too late.
The issue is the fuel line attachment, and the security of that attachment, so that a fire isn't started in the first place.
I mean, if the line comes free, and there is a fuel fire in your engine bay, the last thing you should be worried about is if the fuel line itself is going to burn. It's already too late.
The issue is the fuel line attachment, and the security of that attachment, so that a fire isn't started in the first place.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Ottawa, Canada
If someone else damages your car, do not go through your insurance. I'm not talking about you being involved in a car accident, but dealerships or parking lot attendants damaging your car while it was in their care. If you go through your insurance company, it'll be a claim on YOUR record, and your premiums will be affected. Let it go through their insurance at all times. Also note, that these businesses probably have better coverage than you do, or coverage for more aspects of the damage. Let them take responsibility for the damage they caused, and let them try and make things right. They value their reputation (I'd hope).
It could be it's too late to go through the dealer's insurance again, but that dealer should then be trying to help out by getting you parts at their cost or an equivalent value in maintenance or something on your 8. Or a wicked deal on a replacement 8. That way you recover expense without it really costing them (opportunity cost only), so it's win-win for both.
And to the OP: I'm so sorry about what you're going through!
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