416to212

Lately, my engine has been acting up. On the local streets the car is fine but after a highway drive it wants to stall and has stalled once I come to a complete stop.

I was thinking maybe it's the coils or my engine is failing. My plugs were changed at 30k, I'm at 39K now on my 05.

But today, I'm facing another issue. My car won't start and I'm parked in underground parking.

I turn the key with the clutch in and I can hear the starter motor clearly turning/whirring but the engine won't turn over. It won't even sputter.

Questions:
1. What does a flooded engine sound like when you're trying to turn on the engine? Do you think I'm flooded?

2. When an engine fails will the car not start up at all?

3. Can I get a Mazda tech come out and see what my problem is?

BTW Sorry about another thread about the car not starting but I did a lot of searching and my situation is a combination of unique circumstances. I appreciate the help brethren.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

1) Depends on how flooded it is. Normally you will hear the engine trying to start but it just never fires.
2) Ive seen a car run with at least one blown apex seal
3) HA! Not a chance. They will tell you to use your Mazda Roadside and tow it in.

So on to what to do...

1) Check your wires to make sure they are connected...sometimes they pop off if they weren't securely put on...no biggie.
2) Check your plugs and see how bad they look. If they are wet...you're flooded.

And now on to the questions...

1) You mentioned that you changed your plugs at 30K...did you do your coils as well?
2) Have you been having problems starting your car lately?
3) Have you done any work on the car recently?

shaunv74

Yup. Flooded. You'll need to use the deflood DIY on the forum. Or have it towed to a dealer and they will deflood it for you for a price.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I would agree. It's flooded.


However, just doing a de-flood probably won't work, since your ignition is probably garbage. It doesn't have the strength to start it, even if it isn't flooded, so it just floods. Cyclic reaction at this point.


Get your ignition replaced (bring KY jelly and the contents of your checking account and bend over for the dealer if you have them do it), and then do the deflood.


Alternatively, if you have a manual, push/pull start it and it should still start up. Just keep the revs up to keep it from stalling and flooding back out, get it home, and order that ignition!

($140 to $160 for the coils from vendors here, dealers charge $300+, the change is a simple 20 minute swap with a 10mm wrench.)


And since flooding usually quickly accelerates the failure of the cat, keep an eye on the cat for a while too.

WTBRotary!

iTrader: (6)

I had this problem and I had no apex seals on rotor #1... Go figure... compression test....

416to212

I tried the Mazda method and the windsheild washer fluid method but neither gave a hint of a spark or turnover. I even removed and dried/cleaned my spark plugs and turned the ignition key to try to dump out some if the fluid in the rotor housings while the plugs are out. I even used a second jumper car's battery just in case it was a battery problem.

I think some of you are right about my ignition being toast. By ignition do you just mean the coils. My spark plugs look good. They are only 9k old. I get absolutely no hint right now that the engine will turn over. Not even a clunk-clunk or chug-chug sound of a spark maybe catching. Sounds aligned with a bad ignition right?

Even with a bad ignition can I push/pull start this car? Will it still work?

Oh and I plan to do my own compression test. What are the readings supposed to be? Over 0.7 and over right?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

'Ignition' refers to the entire system. Without enough power to the coils, they can't produce the power pulse. Without the coils functioning correctly, they won't produce the correct power pulse, if any at all. Without the plug wires functioning correctly, they won't transmit the power pulse to the plugs. Without the plugs functioning correctly, you won't get an appropriate spark. And while not part of it, the e-shaft sensor needs to be reading correctly to make sure that the spark is occurring at the right place in the cycle.

You only mentioned changing your plugs, when typically coils and wires fail around 30,000 miles of use as well. They typically just keep degrading, rather than suddenly failing, but they can suddenly fail too.


And push/pull starting the car on a bad ignition is possible, depending on how bad it is. If you get a spark at all, in theory it should work. Certain levels of spark are too low to keep it running though. And no spark of course means definitely not.

416to212

Okay so I plan on buying a new set of coils from Mazmart. I hope I can get this thing started.

BTW Is the compression tester for the rotary the same as a compression tester in a piston engine?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No, it is not.


A piston engine compression tester can just measure peak compression over the cranking, record it easily with a max dial in the analog tester.

The rotary needs to capture 3 individual values per rotor. And it's not the highest value that counts, but the lowest. So you need an electronic one that can record 3 values, and update each of those values correctly on each revolution of the rotor.


There are a couple aftermarket ones, but typically the price is cost-prohibitive for people to get them. It's far cheaper getting it done at a dealer.








About the only time that you will find me making that statement

416to212

Okay, I got down to the problem.
My engine was definitely flooded and to ensure my ignition system was up to par, I replaced the coils and the spark plug wires (plugs were okay).

I did the deflood procedure according to pulling the Fuel Pump fuse and unplugging the air pump but before plugging in the Fuel Pump fuse back in, I pulled the plugs and dried them and with the plugs out I cranked the engine to purge out more of the fuel.

In total I spent 3 hours swapping everything and doing the deflooding. It was a tough job but I was happy when it was all over. Until it finally fired up, it didn't even sound like it was likely to start up. If you have any questions please feel free to ask me, I'd love to help out.

Thanks for answering my orginal question guys.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

Now that you started it after it being flooded check your plugs and clean them up...they are likely pretty nasty looking.

416to212

Here is my variation of the Fuel Pump fuse pull out method due to being excessively flooded,

To start connect a second running car to your battery.

1. Pull out Fuel Pump fuse, disconnect Air Pump.

2. Crank 5 seconds, rest 5 seconds and do this for 1 minute.

3. Rest for 1 minute.

4. Crank 5 seconds, rest 5 seconds and do this for 1 minute.

5. Pull out the spark plugs and dry them out and brush them off. Set them off to the side.

6. With the plugs pulled out get in the car and crank the engine. Crank 5 seconds, rest 5 seconds. Repeat 3 times.

7. Take a look at the holes wehre your spark plugs should be. They should be oozing fuel and black soot. Use a cloth and clean up the mess.

8. Again with the plugs out crank the engine - crank 5 seconds, rest 5 seconds. Repeat 3 times. Check to see if any more fuel and soot are coming out of the spark plug holes. Clean up any more mess.

9. Reinstall the spark plugs (use anti-seize) and the plug wires.

10. Reinstall the Fuel Pump fuse.

11. Crank the engine. Crank 5 seconds, rest 5 second. This is the moment where the engine should start up. If it does not start after 1 minute go back to Step 1 and repeat everything all over.

12. Once the engine starts up keep things above 2000 rpm until the smokes dies down. Plug your Air Pump back in. Go for a spirited drive.

13. Pull out your plugs once the car has totally cooled down (some other day) and clean the plugs again because they will be fouled after starting up your flooded engine.

I had to pull my plugs because my engine was so flooded that my ignition system would not burn off the extra fuel in the rotor housing when the Fuel Pump fuse was pulled out and the engine was cranked. Because the internals were so soaked I think there was no spark to burn out the extra fuel during these steps.

Also want to say, don't give up!

Hector Castillo

iTrader: (6)

Hey i think i have the same problem.This is what happend I took my car to the paint shop, and it was working perfectly. It never heated up, never had any difficulties with it. Only one week before the battery uncharged, and i was told i had to replace it. I charged it and it work again. I left the car at the paint shop and since they didnt turn it on in a cupple of days the battery uncharged. Heres were the problem starts, I think that in the paint shop they tried to force the car to turn on. Can the car get flooded by that? When I went i took a new battery and i tried to turn on the car i noticed that the oil gauge was hardly going up when its ususally very high. After i tried turning it on the car smelled like fuel. Do you'll think my car is flooded? I've never had any other problems with the car. I'm worried about my car hopefully you can help me out. Thanks

FastFreddy61

Why would you do step 2 to 4 without doing step 5 after step 1 ?

corners

It sounds like its flooded.

I've flooded my car by trying to start it with a weak battery after not driving it for a few weeks. It was also 25 degrees (F) outside. It didn't have enough cranking speed to fire up, but it was still injecting fuel. I had to pull the plugs and fuel pump relays, crank it until it stopped flinging out fuel, then put everything back together and it reluctantly started. The oil gauge usually doesn't show full pressure until the engine actually starts.

corners

Sometimes if it isn't terribly flooded the spark plugs will light everything off and you don't need to pull the plugs. However, usually the cat fills with fuel so I've always pulled the spark plugs.

The Mazda TSB says to pull the E shaft sensor plug instead of the fuel pump relays, which will both prevent fuel pressure and prevent the coil packs from firing. It can damage the coil packs to fire them without spark plugs in place. However, at least on my car you have to take a bunch of stuff out of the way to get to the E shaft sensor plug, so I just pull the fuel pump relays. I've flooded it twice within 57k miles and my coils are still fine.

I usually just pull the leading plugs and leave the trailing plugs in place. Once most of the crud gets cleared out you can hear the trailing plugs firing on the remaining mixture and then you know it's dry enough in there to put it all back together and start it up. The trailing plugs will defoul themselves once the engine starts.