dizenman

iTrader: (2)

Hey, first off I'm not 100% sure if I need a new engine yet, but I should know by tomorrow morning. I'm trying to preemptively find out all of the information I can. I posted a thread on Thursday about an extremely odd knocking I was having, (Charles Hill suggested the fuel pump, I spoke to Juni about it and he didn't think it was the case, but is going to look into it.)

In addition to misfires. Here's a link to my previous thread so you could read about what happened: (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/odd-knocking-224810/).

As far as coils and spark plugs, those were changed about 7-8000 miles ago, and the engine has roughly 6,000 miles on it. Since I have had this engine, I have had the oil changed 3 or 4 times. I have been extremely **** about the maintenance, and have been taking care of a rotary as I should. I check the oil levels about every 3rd day, etc.

Here is my question: Considering the engine only has 6,000 miles on it and I have been taking care of it as I have been, If it is blown would it be considered a manufacturers defect or something to that effect? Would there be any way I could get Mazda to honor any sort of warranty on this given I have 104,000 on the chassis? Thanks for any help in advanced, I'm really trying to figure this out since I don't have $3,000+ to spend on a rebuild.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

The issues you're facing are: why did the engine perform for 6k miles, if it were a manufacture defect? How was the car driven in that 6k miles? Were there any issues before the initial misfire? Was the engine properly broken in?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If it is the fuel pump, it's possible that it caused a lean spike (from suddenly lower than expected fuel delivery) and damaged one or more seals. If this is in-fact true, then you are pretty much hanging on any good will Mazda may have for you. The fuel pump is only covered up to 60,000 miles, and "failure caused by a failure of a part not covered by warranty" is typically not covered. Legally, the dealer would have no obligation to cover it, however, some might anyway within 100k. After 100k, you lose even more ground

zoom44

Mazda remans come with a 12k mile warranty if im not mistaken

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

bold

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

If that were the case I could replace the fuel pump and then call it random haha. Hopefully that doesn't end up happening.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

I hope this is true, I'm going to call the mazda dealership that replaced the motor tomorrow if the motor is blown. I should know by tonight or tomorrow what has happened.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

I just checked all of the service paperwork, and the motor is covered for 12,000 miles or one year, so if it is blown it is under warranty. As for the knocking, I looked over the paperwork and there was a note at 22k miles ago the motor mounts were weak and the previous owner declined to replace them. Could it be possible that they are blown out, which is the reason for the engine knocking?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

motor mounts? Knocking ?

err ...

well, S1 stock fuel pumps sucks. it could be the cause, but if your engine is dead then get it replaced first, deal with the fuel pump in a bit.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

The motor mounts is just a guess because I know they are weak. I hope the engine isn't blown. I wont know until tomorrow.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I personally know 2 owners up here in NE that had an engine fail due to a failed fuel pump, and the reman immediately failed during post-installation shakedown because of the pump (again).

If the pump is bad, "fixing it later" isn't really a good option. The original symptoms you had certainly sound like fuel pump.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

well, the reason why I said "fixing it later" because the dealer might rape him on the pump and install ...

if he doesn't push the engine then it shouldn't be too much of a problem ... until his new fuel pump is in.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

Any things that need repair aside from what is covered at the warranty, I will have done at JRX rotary. I don't trust dealers much, so I would only have done there what is absolutely required.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

I must say, Mazda Corporate in Irvine is by far one of the worst possible places to deal with. The replacement part warranty clearly states that my engine is indeed covered, however they twist words to try and not cover it, and have the maturity of children, which I will later explain.

I brought the car to my local Mazda dealership to look at, and with their inspection, they called me and told me it was low roughly 2 quarts of oil. this is odd to me, because the oil was changed 2500 miles ago, there was no leak, and I frequently check the oil. However the reason at that point they said they were not going to cover it, is because they say the replacement parts warranty only covers parts purchased, not replaced under warranty. I'm going to copy and paste it directly from mazda so you guys can see what it actually states, with certain key words bolded. (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ownersWarranty)

"
Genuine Mazda Parts Warranty

Mazda's genuine new or remanufactured parts (other than battery) and accessories purchased from or installed by a Mazda dealer are covered under the Replacement Parts and Accessories Warranty. This includes Mazda Accessories installed by a Mazda dealer prior to the retail delivery of a new Mazda vehicle. A Mazda dealer will repair or replace any properly installed Mazda part or accessory found to be defective in material or workmanship during the Replacement Parts and Accessories Warranty or the remainder of the warranty coverage applied by Mazda to the component.

Mazda's Replacement Parts and Accessories Warranty coverage:
Dealer-Installed Replacement Part or Accessory under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
1996 and newer vehicles
12 months/12,000 miles, whichever comes first from the date the part was installed on the vehicle.
Labor for removal or replacement will also be covered.
Customer must provide a copy of the Mazda Dealer repair order showing installation of the part at an authorized Mazda dealer.
1995 and earlier vehicles
12 months/unlimited miles, whichever comes first from the date the part was installed on the vehicle.
Labor for removal or replacement will also be covered.
Customer must provide a copy of the Mazda dealer repair order showing installation of the part at an authorized Mazda dealer.


Dealer-Installed Replacement Part or Accessory under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
1995 and newer vehicles
A replacement part or accessory is covered for the remainder of the warranty coverage applied by Mazda to the component.
1994 and earlier vehicles
12 months/unlimited miles or remainder of New Vehicle Limited Warranty, whichever is longer.
Labor for removal or replacement will also be covered.
Customer must provide a copy of the Mazda dealer repair order showing installation of the part at an authorized Mazda dealer.
Replacement Part or Accessory Sold Over-the-Counter:
1996 and newer vehicles
12 months/12,000 miles, whichever comes first from the date the part was purchased.
Labor for removal or replacement is NOT covered.
A copy of the parts invoice is required to validate the parts warranty.
1995 and earlier vehicles
12 months/unlimited miles, whichever comes first from the date the part was purchased.
Labor for removal or replacement is NOT covered.
A copy of the parts invoice is required to validate the parts warranty.

During the warranty period, this warranty is transferable to subsequent owners."

The word "Or" that is in bold above is the reason that what they are saying is incorrect. Were it the word "and", then they would be correct in saying that the part had to be purchased, however that is not the case.

So after this is determined, they then say they will not cover it because the oil was low. First off, the oil was low, according to them, based on a picture of the dipstick. I checked the oil after it misfired and the oil level was not as low as what they are saying. I don't know if the car was on a level surface when they checked it, I don't know if they let the dipstick drip before taking the picture, and I don't know if they drained oil before taking the picture. When I checked it, it was not that low. But to further how suspect they are, the day after I was initially called saying it was roughly 2 quarts low(based on a dipstick, not an actual measurement), corporate was saying I was absolutely dry, and because of that they won't replace it. Again, this is contrary to what was originally told to me, and not even a rotary engine should use that much oil in just 2500 miles, when being regularly maintained. If this engine was burning such extreme amounts of oil, that would be a defect in itself, which is covered by the aforementioned warranty.

Now this is what really angered me. The person I spoke to in corporate, named Ernie, stated his district manager denied the case. So we ask to speak to the district manager. He tells us he can't transfer us. We ask for a name, and he tells us we can't get their name. We ask if we can get a direct number. He tells us we can't get a number. We ask if we can have them call us, and he tells us they don't call people. Either this district manager is president Obama, or he doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned. That behavior is absolutely childish, and is no way a company as large as mazda should treat their customers.

So they have 2 excuses as to why they wont cover it:

1) they say it has to be parts we purchased (clearly stated in the warranty that isn't the case)

2) the oil is low. (I maintain the car regularly and as per mazdas recommendation. If the oil was as low as it was, the engine had a defect and is covered as per the warranties text)


With what I have posted, how do any of you interpret this and how do you feel this should be handled? I so far have reported them to the bureau of automotive repair. I am shocked Mazda is acting as childish, and rude as they are with no regard for their customers, and that they have such little faith in their own product.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

A) Without commenting on what the actual status of your car was, I can tell you that an RX-8 CAN use that much oil. In fact, it SHOULD be using that much oil. 2 quarts in 2,500 miles is about average usage, which is normally listed as 1 quart in 1,000 - 1,500 miles. This is not a defect, but a specifically designed "feature" because the only way to lubricate and cool the internal seals is through injecting oil into the combustion chamber. Your most recent post makes it appear that you are not aware of this, and it (admittedly) puts your entire position in a bad one. However, your first post suggests that you are aware of it, so it's a bit confusing.

B) If you were in-fact 2 quarts low, your oil light would have been on (unless the oil light itself failed or the oil level sensor failed). It comes on at about 1 1/4th quart low. If you were in-fact low

C) You are correct, the warranty would cover complete engine purchase and installation, including removal of the previous engine. The dealer trying to claim that it only covers parts that you purchase from them and install yourself, or that you purchase elsewhere and they install, is ridiculous.


The problem you are going to have is that legally Mazda is saying "this guy ran his car out of oil", and legally they can stick to that story even if it's inaccurate, and win any legal case. Your only way of countering that claim is if you can find proof to the contrary. There are a few ways of going about it, including oil testing comparison between samples from the pan vs oil coolers and disassembling the engine.

Sorry, but this is going to be a tough fight for you, and you likely won't win.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

As per your post A, I do understand Rotaries burn a considerable amount of oil, And I have topped the oil off since my previous oil change 2500 miles ago. In fact, I keep a quart of oil in the engine bay near the wiper fluid reservoir, as do other members of this board (I have a few people that can indeed verify this in court if need be). I suppose where the ignorance on my part lies is the exact amount it is expected to burn. I was under the impression it was around 1-2 quarts between the 3000 mile oil change, and given the majority of my miles were average speed highway, I should have been on the lower end. If I am incorrect here, then It was not clearly explained to me the exact amounts it injects, however I do indeed check the oil frequently. Not at gas stations, since the car is hot and usually on unlevel surface, but in my driveway every other day.

as per post B, The sensor in my oil pan is faulty; It is always on even immediately after an oil change. The oil pan has been replaced once under warranty for this exact reason, and from what I've read it is a known fault.

and as per post C, I am going to get in writing their reasoning for denying my claim. If they mention the fact that it is purchased parts, I feel in court that will hold strongly to show that they are blatantly lying in hopes to not honor what is clearly written, or they have very low English comprehension skills. I am going to make attempts to talk to somebody as high up as possible, and I'm hoping that If I serve them in court, they will decide to settle simply because on their behalf it will be cheaper to replace the engine then to send a lawyer. I Have friends in the law field who will be helping me. I feel my chances are pretty good.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Understood. Good Luck.

Bladecutter

Hence the reason why in my maintenance log, I actually keep track of when I check the oil level, and how much I add.

And also, if I were ever to bring the car to the shop, before I start driving there, I would make sure every fluid is FULL. This way, they can't call you up and tell you you were two quarts low on oil, and your warranty is now void.

I can't even tell you how many times on this forum I've seen people reporting that the dealer starts off by saying their engine oil level was low when they brought the car into the dealer. I haven't even been here a year yet, either.

BC.