Engine Number Three
07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
#101
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Based on the teardown pictures posted on these boards, you might as well break this new one in with 5w20 then switch to pure synthetic. The teardown pics I saw of one guy who ran RP for 47000 miles with a turbo showed no wear whatsoever!
07-15-2009, 02:35 PM
#102
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Yeah the reputation cost is high because although I like the new RX-8 I'm not sure I would want to mess with one again when there are other vehicles to choose from. Of course each person has had their own experience but the problems with tail lights, visors, engines, fuel tank, heater, starters, alternators, coils, fuel pumps, etc. is just too much at times for a $30,000 car. I am a car guy and I didn't expect a perfect relationship with a rotary equipped car and this car is 85% perfect but the common problems are just a bit much for me at times.
Plus I bought a brand new MPV mini van here at work a couple years ago and it has not held up well (rides rough, interior bits falling apart already, tranny problems) considering the Toyota Sienna we own has had almost 300,000 trouble free miles and is 9 years old. I think Mazda is great in a lot of areas, they just need to fine tune some others in terms of parts suppliers and quality. My MS Protege was a great reliable car and so have my dads Miata's. But, we will see how the Renesis II's fair, maybe Mazda finally got it right.
Plus I bought a brand new MPV mini van here at work a couple years ago and it has not held up well (rides rough, interior bits falling apart already, tranny problems) considering the Toyota Sienna we own has had almost 300,000 trouble free miles and is 9 years old. I think Mazda is great in a lot of areas, they just need to fine tune some others in terms of parts suppliers and quality. My MS Protege was a great reliable car and so have my dads Miata's. But, we will see how the Renesis II's fair, maybe Mazda finally got it right.
07-15-2009, 03:27 PM
#103
Since my divorce 1 1/2 years ago my cars daily highway mileage dropped from 80 miles a day to about 10 miles a day but my car gets driven the way it was meant to be driven and it gets redlined daily. The only thing I can think of that I didn't do is premix from day one.
07-15-2009, 03:45 PM
#104
Super Moderator
It is ok to replace 1 engine in 8 years but this is not always the case. As the topic suggests “engine three” and who says that later would be “engine four”
Anyway sure you are all right about the cost of swapping renesis II but the reputation cost is the highest of all. If you think that most of people assume that wankel is not reliable then al those thousands of RX-8 would not have been sold. So the reputation cost will impair more the futures sales of RX-8
Anyway sure you are all right about the cost of swapping renesis II but the reputation cost is the highest of all. If you think that most of people assume that wankel is not reliable then al those thousands of RX-8 would not have been sold. So the reputation cost will impair more the futures sales of RX-8
That is why you have an 8 year warranty.
Go and buy a Porsche and see what happens when the engine expires at 30,000.
Or a 09 Subaru with engines have not lasted 150 miles!. Or a Nissan that drinks more oil then any rotary ever would.
ALL makes have engine issues....
07-15-2009, 03:45 PM
#105
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Too be honest I always warm my car up before heading out but I only go by water temp and honestly I'm not far from the freeway and I always run through the gears to get up to merge speed due to the short on ramp. I usually let the water temp get to 150 at least before pulling away from my driveway and I never shut my car off cold.
i will have to research to find out what the best options are for getting an oil temp guage.
i will have to research to find out what the best options are for getting an oil temp guage.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 07-15-2009 at 03:49 PM.
07-15-2009, 04:22 PM
#106
Mazda's "compression test" consists of hooking up a vacuum gauge to a running motor.
Incomplete combustion could cause a failure of this test.
A proper compression test - where they actually measure the pressure in each chamber - is no longer recommended or carried out by Mazda stealerships.
07-15-2009, 05:42 PM
#108
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07-15-2009, 08:22 PM
#109
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Could you explain? I would figure, no matter how poorly you were combusting, if you were at a particular RPM with a VE that was rather constrained (as it is at a relative low RPM) that you would have a specific flow through the tb and hence a specific speed through the tb to act on the venturi.
That is not to say that I havent noticed that at a particular rpm, when the car runs rich with a light bog, that the vac falls. I just dont understand why this would be?
(My vac at idle is running in the high 14"Hg-low 15"Hg when hot. I am wondering if it is a heat sensitive vac leak at the injectors (rpms race slightly with carb cleaner when blasted on top of the injectors and there is a reed like sound isolated to this area.) I have had to stop tuning 'til I figure it out. I haven't checked the compression yet, despite the fact I have my brand new tester sitting in the garage. )
That is not to say that I havent noticed that at a particular rpm, when the car runs rich with a light bog, that the vac falls. I just dont understand why this would be?
(My vac at idle is running in the high 14"Hg-low 15"Hg when hot. I am wondering if it is a heat sensitive vac leak at the injectors (rpms race slightly with carb cleaner when blasted on top of the injectors and there is a reed like sound isolated to this area.) I have had to stop tuning 'til I figure it out. I haven't checked the compression yet, despite the fact I have my brand new tester sitting in the garage. )
07-15-2009, 08:30 PM
#110
The amount of air drawn in is directly affected by combustion.
Bigger boom, bigger suck.
Mish-mosh of reasons - carry-over charge, lower temp differential, wash-down, etc. - but the net result is lower vacuum.
Mazda recognizes this and its the reason they swap coils before resorting to an engine replacement.
Bigger boom, bigger suck.
Mish-mosh of reasons - carry-over charge, lower temp differential, wash-down, etc. - but the net result is lower vacuum.
Mazda recognizes this and its the reason they swap coils before resorting to an engine replacement.
07-15-2009, 08:34 PM
#111
Strictly speaking, this is not true.
Mazda's "compression test" consists of hooking up a vacuum gauge to a running motor.
Incomplete combustion could cause a failure of this test.
A proper compression test - where they actually measure the pressure in each chamber - is no longer recommended or carried out by Mazda stealerships.
Mazda's "compression test" consists of hooking up a vacuum gauge to a running motor.
Incomplete combustion could cause a failure of this test.
A proper compression test - where they actually measure the pressure in each chamber - is no longer recommended or carried out by Mazda stealerships.
I know about that part (the incomplete combustion would cause a failure --)
dunno why Mazda not doing it anymore tho, maybe people can't read for ****, doing it wrong(the test) all the time and send good motors to rebuild ?
Last edited by nycgps; 07-15-2009 at 08:37 PM.
07-15-2009, 08:48 PM
#112
Super Moderator
I am convinced many engines were changed in the early days that did not require them to be.....because Dealers and Distributors were not recognizing failed ignition coils.
Poor starting or no firing in any rotary is a sign of bad compressions/blow-by/seal leakage/coolant entry.
Having said that both types of condition testing whether it be by Vacuum or a PSI Tester will highlight some failure with "seals".
Which is the "better" type of test???, perhaps Vacuum is the easiest as RPM can influence a PSI test if it is not calculated correctly...ie. Human error.
EDIT: And not many dealers have the expensive mechanical PSI Testers, the vacuum one is the simplest and cheapest to perform.
Years ago here Dealers would borrow the Mazda Tester from the Distributor to test an RX-7 engine.
Poor starting or no firing in any rotary is a sign of bad compressions/blow-by/seal leakage/coolant entry.
Having said that both types of condition testing whether it be by Vacuum or a PSI Tester will highlight some failure with "seals".
Which is the "better" type of test???, perhaps Vacuum is the easiest as RPM can influence a PSI test if it is not calculated correctly...ie. Human error.
EDIT: And not many dealers have the expensive mechanical PSI Testers, the vacuum one is the simplest and cheapest to perform.
Years ago here Dealers would borrow the Mazda Tester from the Distributor to test an RX-7 engine.
Last edited by ASH8; 07-15-2009 at 08:53 PM.
07-15-2009, 08:49 PM
#113
It takes too many billable hours and a more expensive piece of equipment with too many variables to do a proper compression check.
The current check can be done on a hot motor with a cheap sensor in 1/2 hour, requires no interpolating and doesn't depend on starter speed. The plugs stay in, the car stays off a lift that could otherwise be making money and Mazda doesn't care if the motor is making power. They only care that it isn't gonna die and become a liability.
The current check can be done on a hot motor with a cheap sensor in 1/2 hour, requires no interpolating and doesn't depend on starter speed. The plugs stay in, the car stays off a lift that could otherwise be making money and Mazda doesn't care if the motor is making power. They only care that it isn't gonna die and become a liability.
07-15-2009, 10:34 PM
#115
It takes too many billable hours and a more expensive piece of equipment with too many variables to do a proper compression check.
The current check can be done on a hot motor with a cheap sensor in 1/2 hour, requires no interpolating and doesn't depend on starter speed. The plugs stay in, the car stays off a lift that could otherwise be making money and Mazda doesn't care if the motor is making power. They only care that it isn't gonna die and become a liability.
The current check can be done on a hot motor with a cheap sensor in 1/2 hour, requires no interpolating and doesn't depend on starter speed. The plugs stay in, the car stays off a lift that could otherwise be making money and Mazda doesn't care if the motor is making power. They only care that it isn't gonna die and become a liability.
its just that I never know what's the value for passed/failed.
do ya know ?
07-16-2009, 12:52 AM
#116
Super Moderator
Actually called "Engine Vacuum Voltage Test", I guess you have seen the TSB "nycgps"?,
I cant see any reference values, perhaps Kevin may tell?
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-08-1924g.pdf
Engine Vacuum Voltage Tester #N3M1-18-791
I cant see any reference values, perhaps Kevin may tell?
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-08-1924g.pdf
Engine Vacuum Voltage Tester #N3M1-18-791
07-16-2009, 04:11 AM
#117
Registered
exactly. The reputation cost is the biggest cost Mazda has to pay. This cost may be so large sometimes that may enforce the shutdown of a production line.
07-16-2009, 04:16 AM
#118
Registered
You are concerned about Mazda's reputation?
That is why you have an 8 year warranty.
Go and buy a Porsche and see what happens when the engine expires at 30,000.
Or a 09 Subaru with engines have not lasted 150 miles!. Or a Nissan that drinks more oil then any rotary ever would.
ALL makes have engine issues....
That is why you have an 8 year warranty.
Go and buy a Porsche and see what happens when the engine expires at 30,000.
Or a 09 Subaru with engines have not lasted 150 miles!. Or a Nissan that drinks more oil then any rotary ever would.
ALL makes have engine issues....
And in Greece we have only 3 years warranty or 62000 Km. And the dealers will not replace your engine under warranty if you have installed an aftermarket exhaust.
07-16-2009, 04:46 AM
#119
Super Moderator
What do you want Mazda to go broke?
As I said go buy a Porsche..they walk away from their customers with no help.
...."enforce the shutdown of a production line" HUH?.
The RX-8 is only made at Mazda in Hiroshima on a line where the MX-5, Mazda 2, CX-7, CX-9, MPV and 8 come off, 8 production is so small it has little effect of their "production line"...on average about 30 a day.
In Australia we only have a 3 year warranty also.
LUCKY U.S.A ..
As I said go buy a Porsche..they walk away from their customers with no help.
...."enforce the shutdown of a production line" HUH?.
The RX-8 is only made at Mazda in Hiroshima on a line where the MX-5, Mazda 2, CX-7, CX-9, MPV and 8 come off, 8 production is so small it has little effect of their "production line"...on average about 30 a day.
In Australia we only have a 3 year warranty also.
LUCKY U.S.A ..
07-16-2009, 04:55 AM
#120
Registered
^ ok you have a point. I do not actually mean to shut down the entire production line. Just to stop producing RXs.
I wish I had the money to buy a carrera 911 and stay totally unsupported from dealer
I wish I had the money to buy a carrera 911 and stay totally unsupported from dealer
07-16-2009, 06:31 AM
#121
Actually called "Engine Vacuum Voltage Test", I guess you have seen the TSB "nycgps"?,
I cant see any reference values, perhaps Kevin may tell?
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-08-1924g.pdf
Engine Vacuum Voltage Tester #N3M1-18-791
I cant see any reference values, perhaps Kevin may tell?
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-08-1924g.pdf
Engine Vacuum Voltage Tester #N3M1-18-791
and when I play it with my multi-meter, I see some value, but I have no idea what is good or not ...
07-16-2009, 12:00 PM
#124
The mech calls it in to the Tech Line and gets a go or no go. They do no publish a number.
Its just a vacuum gauge and its output is known (its the exact same sensor that is used as your BARO sensor).
It would be easier to just put a mechanical gauge on.
The test is fairly involved and requires control over the OMP to run correctly. Anyone with an AccessPORT could do the test correctly.
