Engine Number Three
07-14-2009, 08:08 AM
#76
Registered
Typical summer temps in Greece
30 degree Celsius = 86 degree Fahrenheit
40 degree Celsius = 104 degree Fahrenheit
45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit
Mazda Dealers here in Greece use 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia Oil.
Here in Greece with the above temps I have a friend with RX-8 low power manual trans 5MT with 60K on his engine (first engine from factory) with 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia, no premix, oil change interval every 3000k , no mods, and with compression at spec but low (i.e 710KPA at 250rpms)
30 degree Celsius = 86 degree Fahrenheit
40 degree Celsius = 104 degree Fahrenheit
45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit
Mazda Dealers here in Greece use 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia Oil.
Here in Greece with the above temps I have a friend with RX-8 low power manual trans 5MT with 60K on his engine (first engine from factory) with 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia, no premix, oil change interval every 3000k , no mods, and with compression at spec but low (i.e 710KPA at 250rpms)
07-14-2009, 09:17 AM
#77
Typical summer temps in Greece
30 degree Celsius = 86 degree Fahrenheit
40 degree Celsius = 104 degree Fahrenheit
45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit
Mazda Dealers here in Greece use 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia Oil.
Here in Greece with the above temps I have a friend with RX-8 low power manual trans 5MT with 60K on his engine (first engine from factory) with 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia, no premix, oil change interval every 3000k , no mods, and with compression at spec but low (i.e 710KPA at 250rpms)
30 degree Celsius = 86 degree Fahrenheit
40 degree Celsius = 104 degree Fahrenheit
45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit
Mazda Dealers here in Greece use 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia Oil.
Here in Greece with the above temps I have a friend with RX-8 low power manual trans 5MT with 60K on his engine (first engine from factory) with 5W-30 Mazda Dexelia, no premix, oil change interval every 3000k , no mods, and with compression at spec but low (i.e 710KPA at 250rpms)
the OMP + 4 cycle dirty oil is just a band aid created by Mazda, I dont blame them tho. they have to do something like this or else no one will buy this type of engine (people are as lazy as **** ... )
710 kPA is pretty low. give it another year or so it will go down more.
07-14-2009, 10:12 AM
#78
Should say more like 80+ F over a certain amount of the year. I think everywhere in the USA minus maybe Alaska will see 80F+ during the summer for days and/or weeks worth. (as in total time not nessessarilly days/weeks in a row)
Now places like TX probably see 80+ for much of the year (or at least half??)
07-14-2009, 01:02 PM
#80
Registered
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay I'm going through a little dilemma and need advice. Started the 8 on a hot Thursday afternoon and it was sputtering really bad. At idle it was jumping between 200-700rpm even stalling out at times. Called the dealership and they said they couldn't look on it until the following Tuesday. I couldn't wait that long so I took it to a local auto mechanic. He looked on it and said that it needed new spark plugs and could get them the next day. Before he even put in the spark plugs he flooded the engine pulling it out of the garage. Long story short had to tow my car over to the dealership. The dealer is stating that it needs new coil packs and a "slight 10%" chance that it might be the engine.. Gonna cost me $780 for everything including unflooding the engine.
04 Rx8
51,000 miles (bought the car used last nov at 44,000)
I've gotten my oil changed every 3,000 miles at the dealership.
04 Rx8
51,000 miles (bought the car used last nov at 44,000)
I've gotten my oil changed every 3,000 miles at the dealership.
07-14-2009, 01:16 PM
#81
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Coils should be covered under warranty. My first set was. Did you purchase and extended warranty? Before I would pay for that I would pay for a compression test and if the compression is low they will have to replace the motor and cannot charge you for the other stuff. You may still need new coils as they are not included with the rebuilt engine but you can do that your self for about $150.00.
In San Antonio the average temp between March and November if 84.6 degrees. the average between April and September is 89.5 degrees. But this summer it is off the charts and all kinds of records are being broke.
In San Antonio the average temp between March and November if 84.6 degrees. the average between April and September is 89.5 degrees. But this summer it is off the charts and all kinds of records are being broke.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 07-14-2009 at 01:20 PM.
07-14-2009, 01:51 PM
#83
Registered
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coils should be covered under warranty. My first set was. Did you purchase and extended warranty? Before I would pay for that I would pay for a compression test and if the compression is low they will have to replace the motor and cannot charge you for the other stuff. You may still need new coils as they are not included with the rebuilt engine but you can do that your self for about $150.00.
In San Antonio the average temp between March and November if 84.6 degrees. the average between April and September is 89.5 degrees. But this summer it is off the charts and all kinds of records are being broke.
In San Antonio the average temp between March and November if 84.6 degrees. the average between April and September is 89.5 degrees. But this summer it is off the charts and all kinds of records are being broke.
Just came off the phone with the dealer and they said, that a compression test was done along with other diagnostic tests and everything came back good. Right now there wanting on the coil packs that will arrive tomorrow...
07-14-2009, 04:23 PM
#86
Super Moderator
Got to agree with 'nycgps'...
The fundamental issue with Series I engines is the OMP SYSTEM, it is just not good enough.
History shows that older 13B's had center oil nozzles to lubricate Apex seals, the RENESIS did not....so it does not matter how many engines you have replaced, they are fundamentally flawed...this is why PRE-mixing is a MUST.
This is also why Mazda changed the MOP system on Series II RX-8's, to the best system they have ever used, it is now fed by the engines oil pump with two large electric solenoids to release oil, not the stupid stepper motor used over the past 35 years.
Next..is the oil Grade, as nycgps says a 5W20 is not good enough.
The fundamental issue with Series I engines is the OMP SYSTEM, it is just not good enough.
History shows that older 13B's had center oil nozzles to lubricate Apex seals, the RENESIS did not....so it does not matter how many engines you have replaced, they are fundamentally flawed...this is why PRE-mixing is a MUST.
This is also why Mazda changed the MOP system on Series II RX-8's, to the best system they have ever used, it is now fed by the engines oil pump with two large electric solenoids to release oil, not the stupid stepper motor used over the past 35 years.
Next..is the oil Grade, as nycgps says a 5W20 is not good enough.
07-14-2009, 05:00 PM
#87
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Damn premixing is kind of a pain in the *** since these local bastard wanna charge so much for Lucas UCL but I guess I have no choice. If I premix, use 15W oil, and do regular changes and my engine fails again I'm gonna murder someone.
07-14-2009, 09:39 PM
#88
Got to agree with 'nycgps'...
The fundamental issue with Series I engines is the OMP SYSTEM, it is just not good enough.
History shows that older 13B's had center oil nozzles to lubricate Apex seals, the RENESIS did not....so it does not matter how many engines you have replaced, they are fundamentally flawed...this is why PRE-mixing is a MUST.
This is also why Mazda changed the MOP system on Series II RX-8's, to the best system they have ever used, it is now fed by the engines oil pump with two large electric solenoids to release oil, not the stupid stepper motor used over the past 35 years.
Next..is the oil Grade, as nycgps says a 5W20 is not good enough.
The fundamental issue with Series I engines is the OMP SYSTEM, it is just not good enough.
History shows that older 13B's had center oil nozzles to lubricate Apex seals, the RENESIS did not....so it does not matter how many engines you have replaced, they are fundamentally flawed...this is why PRE-mixing is a MUST.
This is also why Mazda changed the MOP system on Series II RX-8's, to the best system they have ever used, it is now fed by the engines oil pump with two large electric solenoids to release oil, not the stupid stepper motor used over the past 35 years.
Next..is the oil Grade, as nycgps says a 5W20 is not good enough.
but still feeding dirty 4 cycle oil ... grrr
and the older rotary engines they feed the oil at center *only* ...
I still think premix it with gasoline gives ya the best results ... and I still think premix is the only way to make sure that your engine will get 99.999998 % of the lubrication that it needs.
So yeah, i still still premix even with my next rotary.
You dont really need idemitsu, you can use Royal purple or Redline's 2 cycle oil. Go at least TWC3. or even better, the JASO-FC.
I got Idemitsu cuz ... I got it for cheap lol. and well it has that "rotary" label on it so yeah I use that
If I premix, use 15W oil, and do regular changes and my engine fails again I'm gonna murder someone.
but if ... you know ... Can I join you ? :P
Last edited by nycgps; 07-14-2009 at 09:41 PM.
07-14-2009, 09:57 PM
#89
Super Moderator
Agree,
I think the issue which has created problems in the "lubricity' of the RENESIS is the side Exhaust Porting and the new rotor's cut off rings, these obviously need oil lubrication, part of the side oil weepers dual function, but they forgot the centre of the Apex Seal.
Perhaps Mazda were concerned that oil in the middle area could foul the spark plus which are also in the center of the rotor??...I don't think this was a huge problem for RX-7's.
As we know in the "A" and some "B" rotary engines oil was "injected" below the Carburettors which mixed with air/fuel for internal lubrication.
Only time will tell if the new 6 injector set up will work, another thing is we have more "small" holes that Apex Seals have to skip over which were not there in earlier rotaries.
I think the issue which has created problems in the "lubricity' of the RENESIS is the side Exhaust Porting and the new rotor's cut off rings, these obviously need oil lubrication, part of the side oil weepers dual function, but they forgot the centre of the Apex Seal.
Perhaps Mazda were concerned that oil in the middle area could foul the spark plus which are also in the center of the rotor??...I don't think this was a huge problem for RX-7's.
As we know in the "A" and some "B" rotary engines oil was "injected" below the Carburettors which mixed with air/fuel for internal lubrication.
Only time will tell if the new 6 injector set up will work, another thing is we have more "small" holes that Apex Seals have to skip over which were not there in earlier rotaries.
07-14-2009, 10:01 PM
#90
Agree,
I think the issue which has created problems in the "lubricity' of the RENESIS is the side Exhaust Porting and the new rotor's cut off rings, these obviously need oil lubrication, part of the side oil weepers dual function, but they forgot the centre of the Apex Seal.
Perhaps Mazda were concerned that oil in the middle area could foul the spark plus which are also in the center of the rotor??...I don't think this was a huge problem for RX-7's.
As we know in the "A" and some "B" rotary engines oil was "injected" below the Carburettors which mixed with air/fuel for internal lubrication.
Only time will tell if the new 6 injector set up will work, another thing is we have more "small" holes that Apex Seals have to skip over which were not there in earlier rotaries.
I think the issue which has created problems in the "lubricity' of the RENESIS is the side Exhaust Porting and the new rotor's cut off rings, these obviously need oil lubrication, part of the side oil weepers dual function, but they forgot the centre of the Apex Seal.
Perhaps Mazda were concerned that oil in the middle area could foul the spark plus which are also in the center of the rotor??...I don't think this was a huge problem for RX-7's.
As we know in the "A" and some "B" rotary engines oil was "injected" below the Carburettors which mixed with air/fuel for internal lubrication.
Only time will tell if the new 6 injector set up will work, another thing is we have more "small" holes that Apex Seals have to skip over which were not there in earlier rotaries.
Anything else --- band aids
sad, but true
the more "holes" they add to the housings, the more apex seals "jumping" will occur ... and most of us know what that means ...
07-15-2009, 03:06 AM
#92
Registered
However, how is it possible if the renesis I engines are fundamentally flawed MAZDA to replace your no compression engine with a rebuilt engine that again is faulty !!!!
Mazda should replace the renesis I engine with renesis II engine (at a warranty replacement) in order to reduce replacement engines at warranty.
What is the purpose to replace an engine with another engine that will last the same few miles ???
Something is not logical here. Every motor industry in case that they discovered a design problem in an engine will replace the engine with the properly designed one under warranty. Why Mazda does not do that?
07-15-2009, 03:11 AM
#93
The second gen Renesis requires a lot of things to be done in order for it to work properly.
1 - New PCM to control third oil injector
2 - A new dash cluster for the warm-up procedure
3 - An entirely new wiring harness
4 - A new OMP system
The list goes on...
It will be too costly for Mazda to replace them with the second gen Renesis engines.
1 - New PCM to control third oil injector
2 - A new dash cluster for the warm-up procedure
3 - An entirely new wiring harness
4 - A new OMP system
The list goes on...
It will be too costly for Mazda to replace them with the second gen Renesis engines.
07-15-2009, 03:42 AM
#94
Registered
^ Yes I also agree to that but what is most costly ? Is cheaper to replace 3-4 engines renesis I to a customer or to replace 1 engine renesis II.
And what about the reputation cost that Mazda has to pay about all those replacements. I guess the reputation cost is the highest.
And what about the reputation cost that Mazda has to pay about all those replacements. I guess the reputation cost is the highest.
07-15-2009, 04:03 AM
#95
It's cheaper AND faster to replace 3-4 refurbished engines than to get a brand new second gen Renesis and all the required parts for the swap.
As for the reputation, Mazda's rotary equipped vehicles are known by many as an unreliable engine concept so may people stay away from them. (Flamesuit ON)
As for the reputation, Mazda's rotary equipped vehicles are known by many as an unreliable engine concept so may people stay away from them. (Flamesuit ON)
07-15-2009, 04:12 AM
#96
Super Moderator
^ Yes I also agree to that but what is most costly ? Is cheaper to replace 3-4 engines renesis I to a customer or to replace 1 engine renesis II.
And what about the reputation cost that Mazda has to pay about all those replacements. I guess the reputation cost is the highest.
And what about the reputation cost that Mazda has to pay about all those replacements. I guess the reputation cost is the highest.
Cheaper freight/shipping costs than a crated engine from Japan, plus all the extra parts, PCM, Wiring Harnesses, 2 EMOP's, pipes, sensors, switches.
Mazda would really only be counting on replacing your engine once, not twice in 8 years.
Last edited by ASH8; 07-15-2009 at 04:16 AM.
07-15-2009, 04:30 AM
#97
Super Moderator
The Labor cost of replacing all those other parts, pulling dashboards apart, replacing wiring harnesses, PCM etc. At a guess it may be double (at least) the man hours when compared to just going the familiar reman way.
07-15-2009, 07:16 AM
#98
Registered
It is ok to replace 1 engine in 8 years but this is not always the case. As the topic suggests “engine three” and who says that later would be “engine four”
Anyway sure you are all right about the cost of swapping renesis II but the reputation cost is the highest of all. If you think that most of people assume that wankel is not reliable then al those thousands of RX-8 would not have been sold. So the reputation cost will impair more the futures sales of RX-8
Anyway sure you are all right about the cost of swapping renesis II but the reputation cost is the highest of all. If you think that most of people assume that wankel is not reliable then al those thousands of RX-8 would not have been sold. So the reputation cost will impair more the futures sales of RX-8
