Cold Starting Problem
07-19-2012, 12:38 PM
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Cold Starting Problem (Update - It's happening again!)
Alright, I've read through every possible post about flooding / starting / misfires so I figured I would ask for any other advice (that I may have missed)...
Over the last week my RX-8 has had trouble starting when the engine is cold. It will either take longer than usual to start or it will start up and misfire until I give it a little gas. Eventually get a CEL with either p0301 or p0302
New plugs / coils are on the way - so my question is this:
This morning the car would not start at all. Same fault codes as before, and now of course it seems to be acting like it is flooded. Other than cleaning the ESPS, changing out coils / plugs, and fixing my now flooded engine - what else could I be missing? I do not believe I have a compression problem as the car starts beautifully when hot, but I guess it could be the engine finally giving out.
Any help / advice / flaming is welcome.
UPDATE
Once again this morning the car won't start. I have changed the coils and plugs - the wires are less than a year old and in great shape. Is it possible that I just have a bad battery? In other words -> weak battery = eventual starting problem = flooded engine = fouled plugs?
Having the battery tested as soon as I get a ride to the nearest Autozone, I will update with my findings.
Over the last week my RX-8 has had trouble starting when the engine is cold. It will either take longer than usual to start or it will start up and misfire until I give it a little gas. Eventually get a CEL with either p0301 or p0302
New plugs / coils are on the way - so my question is this:
This morning the car would not start at all. Same fault codes as before, and now of course it seems to be acting like it is flooded. Other than cleaning the ESPS, changing out coils / plugs, and fixing my now flooded engine - what else could I be missing? I do not believe I have a compression problem as the car starts beautifully when hot, but I guess it could be the engine finally giving out.
Any help / advice / flaming is welcome.
UPDATE
Once again this morning the car won't start. I have changed the coils and plugs - the wires are less than a year old and in great shape. Is it possible that I just have a bad battery? In other words -> weak battery = eventual starting problem = flooded engine = fouled plugs?
Having the battery tested as soon as I get a ride to the nearest Autozone, I will update with my findings.
Last edited by kmac540; 07-21-2012 at 09:59 AM.
07-19-2012, 12:39 PM
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Unlikely that it's a compression issue.
Ignition is certainly the biggest possible reason, and you have that covered. Wait on that, replace it when it arrives, and then see if you still have issues.
Ignition is certainly the biggest possible reason, and you have that covered. Wait on that, replace it when it arrives, and then see if you still have issues.
07-19-2012, 04:35 PM
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Thanks RIWWP... You always seem to give great advice, I just needed to hear someone else tell me it likely isn't a compression issue. I've only had the car a year and I would hate to have it out of commission already.
07-19-2012, 09:00 PM
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Update!
New plugs fixed the problem (after yet another deflooding just to be sure). Got lots of white-ish blue smoke on start up - I'm assuming it was just built up fuel / oil. For piece of mind I measured the resistance of the old plugs and one of them was completely dead - no resistance at all. The other 3 were pretty low compared to the new plugs. My slightly educated guess is that when I changed the plugs / coils a year ago I had one bad plug out of the box - which probably lead to the eventual demise of the other 3. Either way, everything checks out fine and as a bonus my fuel trims are WAY better than they were.
New plugs fixed the problem (after yet another deflooding just to be sure). Got lots of white-ish blue smoke on start up - I'm assuming it was just built up fuel / oil. For piece of mind I measured the resistance of the old plugs and one of them was completely dead - no resistance at all. The other 3 were pretty low compared to the new plugs. My slightly educated guess is that when I changed the plugs / coils a year ago I had one bad plug out of the box - which probably lead to the eventual demise of the other 3. Either way, everything checks out fine and as a bonus my fuel trims are WAY better than they were.
07-20-2012, 01:58 PM
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I did test all of the coils (per the DIY but I just used an old standard copper plug to verify), I'm pretty sure that it was a bad plug out of the box. With the car not quite running at the optimum condition it must have lead to the others becoming fouled.
07-21-2012, 09:59 AM
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Once again this morning the car won't start. I have changed the coils and plugs - the wires are less than a year old and in great shape. Is it possible that I just have a bad battery? In other words -> weak battery = eventual starting problem = flooded engine = fouled plugs?
Having the battery tested as soon as I get a ride to the nearest Autozone, I will update with my findings.
Having the battery tested as soon as I get a ride to the nearest Autozone, I will update with my findings.
07-21-2012, 12:09 PM
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Battery was low, but still good. After a quick charge it tested at 684 CCA. Going to de-flood and try this all over again. Any thoughts on what I could be the problem would be great...
I forgot to mention the details of my vehicle.
2004 RX-8 GT 6spd; 82,000 miles; all maintenance done by dealer until I purchased the car in 2011. Records show that there was a engine warranty swap at 35,000 miles and the car has been perfect until now. Oil always changed regularly and it never runs low (10w30 Castrol GTX). No real mods other than a test pipe (no cat).
I forgot to mention the details of my vehicle.
2004 RX-8 GT 6spd; 82,000 miles; all maintenance done by dealer until I purchased the car in 2011. Records show that there was a engine warranty swap at 35,000 miles and the car has been perfect until now. Oil always changed regularly and it never runs low (10w30 Castrol GTX). No real mods other than a test pipe (no cat).
07-21-2012, 02:25 PM
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Kind of feel like I'm keeping a diary here... Could use a little help here!
After de-flooding and cleaning up the plugs the car fired right up, only smoked for a little and runs perfect again. What I'm looking for is possible other causes outside of the ignition system since it is basically all new. Hopefully this doesn't happen again tomorrow morning, but if it does I would love to have someone else's thoughts on this.
After de-flooding and cleaning up the plugs the car fired right up, only smoked for a little and runs perfect again. What I'm looking for is possible other causes outside of the ignition system since it is basically all new. Hopefully this doesn't happen again tomorrow morning, but if it does I would love to have someone else's thoughts on this.
07-21-2012, 04:14 PM
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That's the plan so far... thanks for chiming in.
07-22-2012, 10:43 AM
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Got up a little late today and guess what? Car won't start!
I really need some help here guys. It is acting like its flooding overnight, which makes no sense. I'm completely stumped here.
I really need some help here guys. It is acting like its flooding overnight, which makes no sense. I'm completely stumped here.
Last edited by kmac540; 07-22-2012 at 12:32 PM.
07-22-2012, 01:28 PM
#13
If you pull the plugs...is one rotor set wet and the others OK?
If you have a sticking fuel injector they can leak fuel until the pressure drops...and flood out one rotor. This would make it difficult to start
It is unlikely that this would happen to both rotors though, so if only one is flooded you might want to think about it
Have you checked the fuel pressure? If the pump is failing or the filter is plugged you can also get strange symptoms. The fuel pump is supposed to be replaced at 100K or someting like that...so if you have dirty gas it could be plugged
If you have a sticking fuel injector they can leak fuel until the pressure drops...and flood out one rotor. This would make it difficult to start
It is unlikely that this would happen to both rotors though, so if only one is flooded you might want to think about it
Have you checked the fuel pressure? If the pump is failing or the filter is plugged you can also get strange symptoms. The fuel pump is supposed to be replaced at 100K or someting like that...so if you have dirty gas it could be plugged
07-22-2012, 08:39 PM
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If you pull the plugs...is one rotor set wet and the others OK?
If you have a sticking fuel injector they can leak fuel until the pressure drops...and flood out one rotor. This would make it difficult to start
It is unlikely that this would happen to both rotors though, so if only one is flooded you might want to think about it
Have you checked the fuel pressure? If the pump is failing or the filter is plugged you can also get strange symptoms. The fuel pump is supposed to be replaced at 100K or someting like that...so if you have dirty gas it could be plugged
If you have a sticking fuel injector they can leak fuel until the pressure drops...and flood out one rotor. This would make it difficult to start
It is unlikely that this would happen to both rotors though, so if only one is flooded you might want to think about it
Have you checked the fuel pressure? If the pump is failing or the filter is plugged you can also get strange symptoms. The fuel pump is supposed to be replaced at 100K or someting like that...so if you have dirty gas it could be plugged
I'm really hoping for some sort of magical cure if this is the case as I REALLY don't want to rebuild the engine because of one coolant seal. The engine has great compression and makes great power, has always been well taken care of and I'm sure to give it a good thrashing now and then at the track or autocross.
A couple of my friends swear by Blue Devil Gasket Sealant, I'm curious to anyone else's opinion... (let the flaming begin)
06-10-2019, 07:26 PM
#15
I would say that rotor number 2 had spark plugs that looked wetter (its difficult to say because I tried to crank it a few times). Upon clearing the "flooded" state I checked the coolant overflow tank and it was lower than usual. I've got a feeling that I have a failing coolant jacket seal (not sure if this is the proper term) - not blown, but not sealing tightly when the engine cools down. Started up to some white smoke (for a little) and as it was coming up to temperature the exhaust cleared up.
I'm really hoping for some sort of magical cure if this is the case as I REALLY don't want to rebuild the engine because of one coolant seal. The engine has great compression and makes great power, has always been well taken care of and I'm sure to give it a good thrashing now and then at the track or autocross.
A couple of my friends swear by Blue Devil Gasket Sealant, I'm curious to anyone else's opinion... (let the flaming begin)
I'm really hoping for some sort of magical cure if this is the case as I REALLY don't want to rebuild the engine because of one coolant seal. The engine has great compression and makes great power, has always been well taken care of and I'm sure to give it a good thrashing now and then at the track or autocross.
A couple of my friends swear by Blue Devil Gasket Sealant, I'm curious to anyone else's opinion... (let the flaming begin)
Any update on it? Mine too has similar symptoms. Its irritating.
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