Are you happy with your RX-8 as a winter (snow) car?
01-11-2010, 12:31 PM
#51
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My RX-8(on Potenza RE960AS tires) has been fun thus far in the winter, though I've only had it out a few days. The heater isn't that great. I'm used to being able to leave a car's heater setting on max heat, on the lowest fan setting, on my feet only and that be able to keep the car nice and toasty. Not so with the 8. I have to put it on panel/floor, and at least the second fan setting, in the sub 20 deg F weather we've been having. No biggee, just a little more drafty air than I normally like. This is the first car with heated seats that I've ever had, so I love the seats. They do have a mediocre process control loop though. They'll take about 5-10 minutes to fully heat up, then they're blazing hot, and if you make it through that first blazing hot time period, they'll cool off a bit too much, then start repeating that cycle. Overall, I love having them though.
For a fun winter car, I'm always going to prefer rwd over fwd or awd. I believe that having drive just to the rear allows me to control which end of the car is receiving, or not receiving traction. In awd, when on the gas, you loose steering. I took my dad's wrangler out in the snow a few winters back and played around for awhile in a parking lot, switching between rwd/awd, and I felt considerably more in control with rwd. You'd be much less likely to get stuck with awd, but I just pay attention to where I'm driving, and have yet to get stuck in any rwd car (including a miata with bald Azeni tires.)
I've been leaving my traction control on for normal driving around in the snow/ice, but the car will be less likely to get stuck with it off. I was laughing as I tried to pull my car in my garage a couple days ago, and it wouldn't make any forward progress cause any time the rear tires starting spinning, it applied the brakes, killing any momentum. I pushed the dsc button and pulled right in. There was another really steep hill near my house that I tried both ways and was considerably easier to climb with dsc off.
For a fun winter car, I'm always going to prefer rwd over fwd or awd. I believe that having drive just to the rear allows me to control which end of the car is receiving, or not receiving traction. In awd, when on the gas, you loose steering. I took my dad's wrangler out in the snow a few winters back and played around for awhile in a parking lot, switching between rwd/awd, and I felt considerably more in control with rwd. You'd be much less likely to get stuck with awd, but I just pay attention to where I'm driving, and have yet to get stuck in any rwd car (including a miata with bald Azeni tires.)
I've been leaving my traction control on for normal driving around in the snow/ice, but the car will be less likely to get stuck with it off. I was laughing as I tried to pull my car in my garage a couple days ago, and it wouldn't make any forward progress cause any time the rear tires starting spinning, it applied the brakes, killing any momentum. I pushed the dsc button and pulled right in. There was another really steep hill near my house that I tried both ways and was considerably easier to climb with dsc off.
01-11-2010, 01:32 PM
#53
I've done back to back comparisons on the same exact road within an hour and a half of one another on wet ice with slush on top (presumably due to the salting of the road, even though the temperature was below freezing) with an automatic equipped Audi A6 and an automatic equipped Subaru Impreza. Without question, the Subaru was easier to control. The power delivery was smoother, while the Audi had a noticeable one and a half second lag that made balancing it in the drift very trying. This lag made contending with the additional felt mass of the Audi all the more annoying. While the Subaru system might be technically inferior, if your assertion is accurate, there is no question that in the specific instance of the particular A6 I tested, the Subaru was much easier to drive and control.
01-12-2010, 06:57 AM
#54
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http://www.audittcca.com/discussions...tart:int=0&-C=
I don't understand how consumer reports gives the TT and RX-8 similar reliability ratings when the RX-8 owners don't appear to have problems approaching these.
...but this is a digression...
01-12-2010, 08:40 AM
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I'm glad you're happy with your Subbie, but even within the present Subaru lineup, there are huge differences in the AWD systems being used. Here's a video produced by Subaru discussing (to their own advantage of course) different AWD systems and showing how they opereate differently in a "lab" test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs
The CRV and Highlander systems are clearly shown to be a joke. But notice how differently the Forester and Legacy GT systems operate under the same conditions. When the Forester's front wheels encounter "ice" the car stops until the electronics decide to sent power to the rear wheels. The GT (and the VW 4Motion) do not do this. The present Audi Quattros (except the TT) are like the GT in that the center differential is torque-splitting and mechanical. All 4 wheels are driven all of the time and when one half starts to slip, it feeds power to the other. The non-TT Audi systems are also "symmetrical" and always have been since their engines are mounted longitudinally.
You can also check this out:
audamotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/symmetrical-awg-aag.rtf
which describes the four (4) different AWD systems in the 2009 Subaru lineup. There is no system that is "best" in every aspect, but overall, the more money one spends, the better it works (though weight may become an issue). A limited-slip differential is usually a costly extra on RWD or AWD cars, and a the more sophisticated torque-sensing types (Torsen) even more so. To get the same effect in an AWD car, you need 3 of them which means big bucks. To save money, one can use all kinds of combinations of open differentials, hydraulic or viscous control, electronic stability control (brake the spinning wheel) and so on. The manufacturers don't make it easy to find out about this stuff, cause they all want their version of Quattro, but at a lower-than-Audi price point. Even Audi wants that when they turned a Golf into the TT, lol.
So, as a result, "AWD" can be super useful, or basically useless. YMMV.
BTW, I park my 8 for the winter ... regardless of traction, I don't want my polished BB finish sandblasted with road salt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs
The CRV and Highlander systems are clearly shown to be a joke. But notice how differently the Forester and Legacy GT systems operate under the same conditions. When the Forester's front wheels encounter "ice" the car stops until the electronics decide to sent power to the rear wheels. The GT (and the VW 4Motion) do not do this. The present Audi Quattros (except the TT) are like the GT in that the center differential is torque-splitting and mechanical. All 4 wheels are driven all of the time and when one half starts to slip, it feeds power to the other. The non-TT Audi systems are also "symmetrical" and always have been since their engines are mounted longitudinally.
You can also check this out:
audamotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/symmetrical-awg-aag.rtf
which describes the four (4) different AWD systems in the 2009 Subaru lineup. There is no system that is "best" in every aspect, but overall, the more money one spends, the better it works (though weight may become an issue). A limited-slip differential is usually a costly extra on RWD or AWD cars, and a the more sophisticated torque-sensing types (Torsen) even more so. To get the same effect in an AWD car, you need 3 of them which means big bucks. To save money, one can use all kinds of combinations of open differentials, hydraulic or viscous control, electronic stability control (brake the spinning wheel) and so on. The manufacturers don't make it easy to find out about this stuff, cause they all want their version of Quattro, but at a lower-than-Audi price point. Even Audi wants that when they turned a Golf into the TT, lol.
So, as a result, "AWD" can be super useful, or basically useless. YMMV.
BTW, I park my 8 for the winter ... regardless of traction, I don't want my polished BB finish sandblasted with road salt.
The continuous system is the cheapest and most efficient, short of the DCCD in the STi. I didn't know Audi had a symmetrical system, they don't really push this anywhere.
11-16-2021, 05:42 PM
#56
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Used to have a TT
Having owned an 01 tt 225 quattro, I would definitely go that route for a fun winter vehicle.
With good snow. Tires it's basically a snowmobile with heated seats. I live in western NY about an hour from Buffalo.
With good snow. Tires it's basically a snowmobile with heated seats. I live in western NY about an hour from Buffalo.
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