Haze

Thanks very much. That was an informative and amusing review. The only thing that I know about driving Italian cars in bad weather is never drive a 1967 Alfa Romeo Duetto on ice. It likes to pirouette like a ballerina.

tubingchamp

iTrader: (3)

Give it snow tires and it should be fine.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

A bit of a caution, there's AWD and AWD. If I remember properly, the Audi TT is Audi's first sortof AWD car. Rather than having a real center differential, it has a viscous coupling to the rear wheels that engages only when there is slip and then only at relatively low speeds. This is a system found on automatic-equipped Subaru's and most "pretend" SUV's like the RAV-4. The other Audis and cars with a real center differential are different beasts altogether. I had Audi Quattros (5000/100's) for the past 15 years in Michigan, and no way, no how will any 2WD system compare. (It was fun to go out on bad days and pull even 4x4 pickups back onto the road.) The TT is a fwd car with just a little extra to get you going in slippery conditions, better than the RX8 in that regard, but not a huge difference. Both the -8 and the TT are lacking in ground clearance, so it will be easy to get hung up on unplowed roads. The A4/A6 Quattros however, are incomparable winter machines that the 8 or TT can't begin to approach.

chipkent

I agree that the TT and 8 are limited by ground clearance. That's what I'm considering right now. As long as I don't get suck somewhere without an alternative car, it won't be a big deal. How often it will really happen is the question.

I'll have to research the TT AWD system. I know the system on my Subaru is rock solid, and I can drive anywhere. There is nothing pretend about it.

Rote8

No, I hate rain, much less ice.

My car is already squirrely on dry pavement.

124Spider

While I certainly agree that the RX-8 isn't a good choice for a "snow car," if your "car is already squirrely on dry pavement," there's something seriously wrong with either the car or the nut behind the wheel. These are very stable cars, properly driven, especially since they have so little torque.

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

his car is supercharged. troll.

Whiterat

I've got about 2mm of tread left on the read about about 5 on the front (standard tyres too) and I'm loving it!

I must admit it is a slight pain when you're trying to get up a slight incline, but on the plus side - no need for 3 point turns at the moment.

124Spider

Ah, where to start with so much material in such a short post?

We'll start with "his [sic] car is supercharged." So what? I don't care if he has 500 rwhp, if the car is squirrely on dry pavement, either there's something wrong with the car, or the nut behind the wheel. Drive a car as nicely-behaved as this one right, assuming it's set up properly, and it's not "squirrely." I don't care how much power it has, it's "squirrely" only if you're driving it like an idiot. That's a simple fact; sure, if you're not so good as squeezing the throttle, the car could do some unpleasant things, but, again, that's the nut behind the wheel, not the blower or the car.

And it's worth pointing out, because the simple fact obviously eluded you, that this thread is about driving a stock RX-8 in the winter. Not about driving a supercharged RX-8 any time. So what was the point the guy who can't control his car trying to make, in a thread about driving a stock RX-8 in the winter?

Now, for "troll." Not much to say about that except you need to find a new pejorative, or at least use that one when it's applicable. My pointing out that this car, properly driven, is hardly "squirrely" is so far from being a "troll" as to be laughable. So I'll laugh.

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

looks like you showed me....

you sure like to get worked up over nothing, lol

not even sure why someone without an rx8 is even posting here...troll.

124Spider

Yeah, if (i) trying to help the OP, and (ii) sorting out the crap in the meantime, is "showing [you]," or "getting worked up," you're right.

Some of us actually try to help answer questions. Since I know a lot about these cars, having driven one for five years, including autocrossing it and driving it a bit on the track, I try to be helpful. You might try that sometime, in the unlikely event that you have something positive to contribute.

And you really need to come up with an applicable pejorative, if you insist on calling people names like five-year-old.

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

You try to help answer questions?

Seems to me from the past few threads you've posted in you try to stir up trouble on a forum where *most* of the members love this car, quirks and all.

Sure maybe you have contributed something meaningful in the past, I don't really know or care. But why come in here acting like you are all high and mighty? You think you have something to teach here since you are so experienced? How about not coming in here and calling someone "a nut at the wheel"; which is pretty much an assumption based on nothing. Whatever happened to a thing called manners or humility?

Sorry you got so offended by me calling you a troll. That's just what it looked like to me when you come in here with the attitude. If I'm wrong about all this and I am reading too much in between the lines, than I apologize. For the most part we are a big family here at rx8club; let's strive to keep it that way.

124Spider

No problem.

For the record, this thread is pretty typical of the "trouble" I stir up on this board. (Although, in the interest of full and fair disclosure, I rarely post here any more, since the board became overrun with fanbois.)

Nevertheless, to the extent that I still post, I sometimes try to sort out fanboi BS from reality, when it is relevant. For instance, when someone states, as happened a few days ago, "nothing handles like an RX-8," I merely pointed out that, while the RX-8 is a fine car, combining nice performance with real-world usability, it's not the ultimate handling car, even in its general price range, which is the simple truth.

That's similar, I think, to correcting a post suggesting that the RX-8 is squirrely, even on dry pavement. The OP in this thread is thinking about buying one; I felt it worth my two minutes to correct any misimpression that guy made with his post about having difficulty controlling his car. It is a simple fact that either the car or the driver is at fault when a car goes sideways, and this car, properly set up, is a very, very balanced car. The term "nut behind the wheel" is, in fact, a common humorous way we racers refer to ourselves when we make a mistake in a race. No disrespect was meant.

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

fair enough

White_Shadows

^ Blah blah blah lol

I'm a mixed bag of m&m's on this one.
Part of me says just drive the ferrari. Shoot when it breaks just buy another one, but after owning a Ducati I know all to well that if you put miles on them they seem to rack up a serious tab. (Just don't tell the guy I sold it to that I rode it through the snow lol)
Personally I'd get this thing

Or do it Ken Block style



lol j/k but seriously I donno that I would do a lightweight rwd car for a winterbeater.
Just some food for thought
Acura RL AWD
Infinity G35x (also awd)
Mazda Speed 6 (They are in every mazda dealership in cali I swear) also awd
VW R32 (4motion part time 4wd)
300c awd could be fun. (stay away from the CTS AWD though)
I've been in the Lincoln MXZ AWD does AMAZING in the snow, but is not a sports car.
Had a coworker with the most beutiful S4 i've ever seen so that would have my vote.
All in the same budget,
Lower budget yet staying with the DSM lifestyle any VR4 would be great too.
Good luck on your choice I love my RX8, but like I said a lightweight RWD car is not always the best choice for snow none the less snow specific.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad you're happy with your Subbie, but even within the present Subaru lineup, there are huge differences in the AWD systems being used. Here's a video produced by Subaru discussing (to their own advantage of course) different AWD systems and showing how they opereate differently in a "lab" test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs

The CRV and Highlander systems are clearly shown to be a joke. But notice how differently the Forester and Legacy GT systems operate under the same conditions. When the Forester's front wheels encounter "ice" the car stops until the electronics decide to sent power to the rear wheels. The GT (and the VW 4Motion) do not do this. The present Audi Quattros (except the TT) are like the GT in that the center differential is torque-splitting and mechanical. All 4 wheels are driven all of the time and when one half starts to slip, it feeds power to the other. The non-TT Audi systems are also "symmetrical" and always have been since their engines are mounted longitudinally.

You can also check this out:

audamotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/symmetrical-awg-aag.rtf

which describes the four (4) different AWD systems in the 2009 Subaru lineup. There is no system that is "best" in every aspect, but overall, the more money one spends, the better it works (though weight may become an issue). A limited-slip differential is usually a costly extra on RWD or AWD cars, and a the more sophisticated torque-sensing types (Torsen) even more so. To get the same effect in an AWD car, you need 3 of them which means big bucks. To save money, one can use all kinds of combinations of open differentials, hydraulic or viscous control, electronic stability control (brake the spinning wheel) and so on. The manufacturers don't make it easy to find out about this stuff, cause they all want their version of Quattro, but at a lower-than-Audi price point. Even Audi wants that when they turned a Golf into the TT, lol.

So, as a result, "AWD" can be super useful, or basically useless. YMMV.

BTW, I park my 8 for the winter ... regardless of traction, I don't want my polished BB finish sandblasted with road salt.

heyarnold69

iTrader: (1)

why are they triangles?

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Maybe only to help them fit on regular cars. I think a place in MN builds these tracks and they can be installed on various vehicles. Pretty cool.

Regarding the video about the Subies, I wonder if the B5 or B5.5 Passat could have done the one wheel with traction test. That generation (from about '98 to '05 or so) had the longitudinal engine and the true quattro awd.

Maybe that's when the claim came out about a Passat pulling with one wheel - I dunno.

Icky Mettle

A 2003 B5.5 Passat with 4-Motion is what I traded in on the RX-8. Without a doubt the AWD drive set-up on these cars is nothing short of astounding. I was able to run that car through conditions that left large 4x4s stranded on the roadside. Sadly, the rest of the car was a complete disaster. Even though I'd probably rather push a VW/Audi product off a cliff than ever drive one again, I'll still find an Audi catching my eye from time to time. Damn they're sexy...

diabolical1

i found myself in the snow a weeks ago trying to convince my Rx-8 to take me home. a half a tank of gas later (about 12 miles) i made it only to get stuck in front of my apartment for about 3 hours trying to make it about 10 yards to my garage.

i can attest to the Rx-8 being useless in the snow without snow tires. unfortunately, i don't have another set of wheels to mount with snow tires, so my Rx-8 is pretty much parked until spring.

diabolical1

at the risk of going slightly off topic, what kinds of issues were you having?

djfa

iTrader: (3)

i have owned sport compact cars all my life which were all FWD. I recently got my rx8 and its my first winter in montreal. Its -35 with windchill factor. I have never had a problem so far to start it. I let it warm max 3 mins when its really cold.

I put dunlop graspic tires on rims and I think it handles a lot better than any of the FWD cars that I owned. Especially the stability control makes it a breeze to drive. The only thing that sucks is that I have the mazdaspeed kit and the side skirts lost chunks of paint which will cost me to fix in summer and the front lip got cracked by a piece of ice that I couldnt avoid. Its prolly gonna cost me 500+ at the bodyshop come summer.

I dunno if its just me though but the seat warmers are garbage. There is just one setting and they dont put your *** on fire the way I like it. The heater doesn't give out really hot air either even at max settings. Its just "warm"

But I don't care for that. The sound of the rx8 and the curves on it is why I wanna be in it every day rain or shine.

Icky Mettle

Don't get me wrong, VW builds fine products - the driving experience is great when something expensive isn't failing. I bought the car VW Certified and had the gas tank replaced the first week of ownership due to a fractured ventilation valve, had recurring transmission problems and rear diff seepage that even a replacement couldn't fix, 3 cat failures before 45k miles, constant electrical and AC problems, premature water pump failure, toss in the long list of smaller annoyances and failures and it's enough to drive you completely nuts, and broke, after warranty. The final straw after three years was when the replacement gas tank failed again for the very same reason and would actually leak when filled above 3/4 of a tank. My warranty had just expired and VW of America wouldn't cover it. In fact, they wanted $3,000 to fix it. I fought with VW and my dealer for weeks, got the NHTSA involved, and was about to hire a lawyer when I just said screw it and traded it in before going the long route and wasting my time and money in court.

The B5.5s seem to have earned a reputation for reliability and quality control issues. Shame too, because they're fantastic all-around performers when they aren't shaking the change out of your pockets. The 2.8 V6 falls short at only 190 bhp, but the 4-Motion adds the type of handling and confidence you just don't get in most 5 passenger cars.

Anyhow, getting back on topic...

I mounted 17' wheels with Blizzaks in the beginning of December and finally put them to the test this week. We got 4-5 inches of snow here and I didn't have any problems getting around. Honestly, I was quite amazed at how well the car performed in the snow. As long as you have dedicated winter tires and drive carefully, the only thing you'll have to worry about is ground clearance or plow ridges, especially if you have the appearance package w/ front lip.

longpath

iTrader: (1)

I've done back to back comparisons on the same exact road within an hour and a half of one another on wet ice with slush on top (presumably due to the salting of the road, even though the temperature was below freezing) with an automatic equipped Audi A6 and an automatic equipped Subaru Impreza. Without question, the Subaru was easier to control. The power delivery was smoother, while the Audi had a noticeable one and a half second lag that made balancing it in the drift very trying. This lag made contending with the additional felt mass of the Audi all the more annoying. While the Subaru system might be technically inferior, if your assertion is accurate, there is no question that in the specific instance of the particular A6 I tested, the Subaru was much easier to drive and control.

Regarding the Original Poster's question, I don't know that I would specifically pick an RX-8 as a dedicated Winter car; but I use mine all four seasons and have no trouble. I do carry a 50 pound (23Kg) bag of salt in the boot both as ballast and for emergencies if I get stuck on ice.

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

I thinks it is a nice drive in a considerable amount of snow, because of clearance issues.
I owned a Ranger w/turbo and that thing sucked. I think it's better than an FD in the snow too.