Synthetic Oil and the Renesis Engine
12-16-2003, 08:56 PM
#201
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Mazda changes mind again on Synthetic oil!!
I just received this e-mail today from Mazda USA on the use of synthetic oil in the rotary engine.
Here it is:
Dear Glen,
Referencing the e-mail I sent last week, we've received an update from Mazda Motor Corporation in Japan. They have advised they would like to do some additional long term testing before recommending synthetic oil for the RX-8. For this reason, we recommend continuing to adhere to the oil specifications referenced on page 8-9 of the Owner's Manual which specify the use of mineral oils only.
Should you have any further questions regarding this matter, please feel free to contact me at 800-222-5500 option #4.
Regards,
Jennifer Gray
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
I have e-mailed them back asking what are the consequences if I have already switched to synthetic oil. I also advised them that in my owners manual it does NOT mention the use of mineral oils at all.
I'll let you know the next reply!
Glen
Here it is:
Dear Glen,
Referencing the e-mail I sent last week, we've received an update from Mazda Motor Corporation in Japan. They have advised they would like to do some additional long term testing before recommending synthetic oil for the RX-8. For this reason, we recommend continuing to adhere to the oil specifications referenced on page 8-9 of the Owner's Manual which specify the use of mineral oils only.
Should you have any further questions regarding this matter, please feel free to contact me at 800-222-5500 option #4.
Regards,
Jennifer Gray
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
I have e-mailed them back asking what are the consequences if I have already switched to synthetic oil. I also advised them that in my owners manual it does NOT mention the use of mineral oils at all.
I'll let you know the next reply!
Glen
12-16-2003, 09:09 PM
#202
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Poor Jennifer!
Her sources can't decide how to approach this issue here in the States. I wonder how long these long-term tests will take before we have an official announcement from Mazda Japan.
Her sources can't decide how to approach this issue here in the States. I wonder how long these long-term tests will take before we have an official announcement from Mazda Japan.
12-16-2003, 09:22 PM
#203
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Hum ... Jennifer Gray ... I wonder if she's related to Jean Gray and that's how Cyclops got a pre-production "8" ... :D
Glen220 - Thanks for the update. I must admitt if I'm gonna burn as much as I think I'm going too of either synthetic as mineral - I was thinking of going with the cheaper alternative. And I was wondering about long term too. Hopefully they can get some solid info soon.
Glen220 - Thanks for the update. I must admitt if I'm gonna burn as much as I think I'm going too of either synthetic as mineral - I was thinking of going with the cheaper alternative. And I was wondering about long term too. Hopefully they can get some solid info soon.
12-16-2003, 09:25 PM
#204
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Page 8-9 of the manual does not state a mineral or synthetic preference whatsoever - so what on earth are they referring to "the oil specifications referenced on page 8-9 of the Owner's Manual which specify the use of mineral oils only"
12-16-2003, 09:33 PM
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I'm also a little stumped by all the voodoo that people are coming up with regarding synthetic oil and how you're not supposed to use it in the RX-8. It's the 21st century for goodness sakes!
The "official" word on oil type is in the owners manual.
The bottom line is, in the FC and FD RX-7's the owners manual specifically said not to use synthetic oil. In the RX-8 manual it does not say that. It gives an oil specification and says you must use oil that meets the specification. If Mazda did not want you to use synthetic oil in the RX-8 they would have said so in the manual. All the quotes and emails from people at mazda and such are just hearsay from folks who either don't know or want to err on the side of caution (ie: if you call up and say "can I do blah in my RX-8" the safest answer is gonna be "No", especially if the person giving the answer doesn't really know) and it just helps spread the confusion.
The "official" word on oil type is in the owners manual.
The bottom line is, in the FC and FD RX-7's the owners manual specifically said not to use synthetic oil. In the RX-8 manual it does not say that. It gives an oil specification and says you must use oil that meets the specification. If Mazda did not want you to use synthetic oil in the RX-8 they would have said so in the manual. All the quotes and emails from people at mazda and such are just hearsay from folks who either don't know or want to err on the side of caution (ie: if you call up and say "can I do blah in my RX-8" the safest answer is gonna be "No", especially if the person giving the answer doesn't really know) and it just helps spread the confusion.
Last edited by sferrett; 12-16-2003 at 09:39 PM.
12-16-2003, 10:15 PM
#206
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That's got to be a load of BS... I mean, shouldn't a "rated" (SJ, etc) oil be fine?
Or should we all just go to castor?? Then our cars would at least smell good.
:D
Or should we all just go to castor?? Then our cars would at least smell good.
:D
12-16-2003, 10:19 PM
#207
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Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Yup, play it safe then by using exactly what Mazda specifies in the owners manual. SAE 5W20, API SL. That's it. Come on, this is easy - if your synthetic oil is 5W20 and API SL, then it meets warranty requirements.
Regards,
Gordon
Yup, play it safe then by using exactly what Mazda specifies in the owners manual. SAE 5W20, API SL. That's it. Come on, this is easy - if your synthetic oil is 5W20 and API SL, then it meets warranty requirements.
Regards,
Gordon
Do what the warranty says... and it says SAE 5W20, SPI SL. If your bottle of oil says that on it, Mazda can't do anything to void your warranty. I can't envision them wiggling out of that legal noose.
12-17-2003, 09:45 AM
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People who are looking to put synth oil into your rotary, answer me this: What do you hope to accomplish by putting synthetic oil into your engine?
General rule of thumb from the long established RX-7 community is this:
Expensive Synths are OK, like Amsoil, Redline, or Royal Purple. NEVER NEVER use Valvoline or Mobile 1!! There have been a number of folks that used Mobile 1 or Valvoline on the RX-7 email list that took their engines apart to see the buildup of crud around the exhaust ports and shrinking/cracking/destruction of a good number of different seals. The seal material was changed on the RENESIS, but I think it is too early for to see if the seals take synthetics well.
Generally for all rotaries, since oil MUST be changed at the SAME intervals for both Dyno oil and Synth, a major rason for moving to synth is down the drain, namely going longer between oil changes to justify the added cost of synths.
Again, Generally for rotaries, Dyno oil is perfect for street use. It you plan on tracking the car, go ahead and change the oil to synth but make sure you are changing the oil at 2000 miles, and/or after ever race if you do a lot of track time!
Back to brands.... it really does depends on what brand you are using. Blanket statements like all synthetics are bad are not true anymore. There is a story that when Mazda was hot and heavy into racing, they used a synthetic with bad results. To avoid litigation, they withheld the name of the brand, and just used the blanket statement of "Synthetics are bad" (This was even mentioned in an issue of Sport Compact Car Magazine a few years ago)
Conclustions: If you are worried, stay with dyno-juice, and change your oil often. If you are dead-set about using synthths, go ahead but use the expensive stuff, and change your oil often. If you don't care, use whatever, and change your oil often.
General rule of thumb from the long established RX-7 community is this:
Expensive Synths are OK, like Amsoil, Redline, or Royal Purple. NEVER NEVER use Valvoline or Mobile 1!! There have been a number of folks that used Mobile 1 or Valvoline on the RX-7 email list that took their engines apart to see the buildup of crud around the exhaust ports and shrinking/cracking/destruction of a good number of different seals. The seal material was changed on the RENESIS, but I think it is too early for to see if the seals take synthetics well.
Generally for all rotaries, since oil MUST be changed at the SAME intervals for both Dyno oil and Synth, a major rason for moving to synth is down the drain, namely going longer between oil changes to justify the added cost of synths.
Again, Generally for rotaries, Dyno oil is perfect for street use. It you plan on tracking the car, go ahead and change the oil to synth but make sure you are changing the oil at 2000 miles, and/or after ever race if you do a lot of track time!
Back to brands.... it really does depends on what brand you are using. Blanket statements like all synthetics are bad are not true anymore. There is a story that when Mazda was hot and heavy into racing, they used a synthetic with bad results. To avoid litigation, they withheld the name of the brand, and just used the blanket statement of "Synthetics are bad" (This was even mentioned in an issue of Sport Compact Car Magazine a few years ago)
Conclustions: If you are worried, stay with dyno-juice, and change your oil often. If you are dead-set about using synthths, go ahead but use the expensive stuff, and change your oil often. If you don't care, use whatever, and change your oil often.
12-17-2003, 09:59 AM
#210
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Originally posted by rotarynews.com
People who are looking to put synth oil into your rotary, answer me this: What do you hope to accomplish by putting synthetic oil into your engine?
...
Generally for all rotaries, since oil MUST be changed at the SAME intervals for both Dyno oil and Synth, a major rason for moving to synth is down the drain, namely going longer between oil changes to justify the added cost of synths.
People who are looking to put synth oil into your rotary, answer me this: What do you hope to accomplish by putting synthetic oil into your engine?
...
Generally for all rotaries, since oil MUST be changed at the SAME intervals for both Dyno oil and Synth, a major rason for moving to synth is down the drain, namely going longer between oil changes to justify the added cost of synths.
Oil changes - right now, Mazda's regular oil change volume of 3.7 quarts is only changing about half of the total oil capacity of 7 quarts. Therefore, using an oil capable of extended life is valuable, since half the oil after a change is old!
Regards,
Gordon
12-17-2003, 01:30 PM
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Great point Gordon. I've been a proponant of synthetic oil for many years (Mobile 1). I use to purchase Mobile 1 when it was $8 USD a quart back in the mid 80s.
I've exchanged my oil at Pepboys three times now. First purchasing Moble 1 0W20. Then after reading many threads (here) on synthetics, I exchanged my case for GTX 5W20. Finally after reading Mazda's letter on this post, exchanging GTX for Mobile again. I have to find an alternate Pepboys to do my next exchange (ha).
Gordon, your points in using synthetic are valid to me, and I agree. I just have one concern and hopfully you can clear it up. My only concern with synthetic is from what I've read on this forum, is its inability to "burn" and aid in combusion.
But as far as using synthetic, I'm on the fence but leaning towards synthetic.
Thanks
Al
I've exchanged my oil at Pepboys three times now. First purchasing Moble 1 0W20. Then after reading many threads (here) on synthetics, I exchanged my case for GTX 5W20. Finally after reading Mazda's letter on this post, exchanging GTX for Mobile again. I have to find an alternate Pepboys to do my next exchange (ha).
Gordon, your points in using synthetic are valid to me, and I agree. I just have one concern and hopfully you can clear it up. My only concern with synthetic is from what I've read on this forum, is its inability to "burn" and aid in combusion.
But as far as using synthetic, I'm on the fence but leaning towards synthetic.
Thanks
Al
12-17-2003, 04:50 PM
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Expensive Synths are OK, like Amsoil, Redline, or Royal Purple. NEVER NEVER use Valvoline or Mobile 1!! There have been a number of folks that used Mobile 1 or Valvoline on the RX-7 email list that took their engines apart to see the buildup of crud around the exhaust ports and shrinking/cracking/destruction of a good number of different seals.
I agree with Borg, the properties of synthetic are far superior and there has been little evidence to support that its actually harmful to rotaries.
:D
12-17-2003, 07:01 PM
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This debate goes on and on... There are people on both sides of the fence...
From LONG time rotary people at Mazdatrix: http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm
This has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions ever!
Here is our answer:
The Rotary engine has an oil injection system that injects small amounts of oil into either the intake tract, carb, or rotor housing (depending on year/model). This is needed to lubricate the various internal seals and surfaces.
The injected oil MUST BURN, and must burn clean. The root answer to the question is that not ALL synthetic oils burn, and not ALLof them burn clean.
The ones that do not burn accumulate until they foul the spark plugs.
The ones that do not burn clean can leave residues of various substances (like ash? plastic? non-organic sand?) that accumulate until the spark plugs foul, or a seal sticks -- could be apex seal, side seal, corner seal, or oil control ring. The normal consequence of a stuck seal is an engine tear down.
In the many years we have been involved in rotary engines, we have NEVER had a problem with GOOD petroleum based oils. They work fine! They are less expensive than synthetics. (We use Castrol 20-50 GTX). They burn clean, etc. etc.
The problem with answering the original question is that it is NOT a simple yes or no. We DO simplify it to a "NO", but that is because we do NOT know whether the specific brand of synthetic the customer has in mind will work. AND, if it does not work, how long will it be before the damage shows up, and how bad will the damage be? Maybe it will take 10,000 miles, maybe 50,000 miles?? Maybe the engine will fail due to something unrelated to the oil, and there won't be enough left to determine why the failure happened.
WE are not willing to take that gamble, are you ?
Then, take a minute to think of WHY you want to use a synthetic. If a rotary engine (properly maintained, oil changes at 3K intervals, etc.) can still be running fine at over 200,000 miles, the engine does not need any more cooling, the gas milage will not be any better, etc. etc. WHY do you want to spend more $$ and gamble on engine and/or spark plug damage? (If you are into the fossil fuel thing, pollution, depleting our resources, etc. then you should not be driving ANY car!)
We are not chemists, and we do not have the time, $$'s, nor inclination to do 100K mile tests of various synthetics in rotary engines.
We DO use synthetics in the transmissions and rear ends - it works fine.
Anyway - that is the MAZDATRIX version of the synthetic question.
Now, we have the other side of the fence, Racingbeat (http://racingbeat.com) :
Racing Beat has been recommending the use of synthetic oils in rotary applications for several years. Our research has found that synthetic oils provide superior friction reducing between sliding surfaces, reduced foaming, and lower oil temperatures. We have tested several different synthetic oils and have found that while most offered improved wear and lower oil temperatures, none offered any horsepower gains... except for Royal Purple!
Our in-house testing has yielded up to a 2% performance increase after changing from mineral-based oil to Royal Purple Synthetic Motor Oil. How could this be? Jim Mederer, co-founder and chief engineer at Racing Beat, was truly puzzled. With over 35 years of professional racing experience under his belt, he has seen and tried just about every “new” lubricant that hits the market. All offered better wear and lower oil temperatures but none offered any horsepower improvement. After spending time consulting with the engineers at Royal Purple to better understand the reason for the horsepower gain, it was explained that the secret was the proprietary ingredient “Synerlec”. This Synerlec ingredient provides an ultra-slick film on internal engine components to significantly reduce power-robbing friction. Less friction equals more power!
Other professional engine builders have confirmed that Royal Purple Synthetic Racing Oil delivers measurable horsepower gains. Independent dyno tests show increases up to 5% (on smaller displacement engines) with nothing more than an oil change.
Additional info from Dave at FC3s.ORG:
The combustion temps in the rotary engine are about what 1200-1600F? Can anyone tell me what temp most synthetic oil hits flash point? ~600F Now with that in mind, what are the odds that there is going to be leftovers in the combustion chamber from oil? The older oils didn't have the technology that we have today. That is the reason that the synthetic oils used to have a bad rap. Older oils used to not be good, and most if not all were very bad to use in the rotary engine. I use royal purple racing 21 in our Project 86 TII and I use royal purple 10W30 regular synthetic oil in my 91 N/A vert. I gained 3HP on the G-Tech and aftermarket oil gauges registered -5F just at idle and up to -15 under hard boost. Oil pressure was lowered by about 3-5psi compared to dino oil.
Like I said before: If you are worried, stay with dyno... If you want to go synth, go ahead.. but make sure the oil has no ash. If you don't care, the do whatever... Just change your oil often!
From LONG time rotary people at Mazdatrix: http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm
This has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions ever!
Here is our answer:
The Rotary engine has an oil injection system that injects small amounts of oil into either the intake tract, carb, or rotor housing (depending on year/model). This is needed to lubricate the various internal seals and surfaces.
The injected oil MUST BURN, and must burn clean. The root answer to the question is that not ALL synthetic oils burn, and not ALLof them burn clean.
The ones that do not burn accumulate until they foul the spark plugs.
The ones that do not burn clean can leave residues of various substances (like ash? plastic? non-organic sand?) that accumulate until the spark plugs foul, or a seal sticks -- could be apex seal, side seal, corner seal, or oil control ring. The normal consequence of a stuck seal is an engine tear down.
In the many years we have been involved in rotary engines, we have NEVER had a problem with GOOD petroleum based oils. They work fine! They are less expensive than synthetics. (We use Castrol 20-50 GTX). They burn clean, etc. etc.
The problem with answering the original question is that it is NOT a simple yes or no. We DO simplify it to a "NO", but that is because we do NOT know whether the specific brand of synthetic the customer has in mind will work. AND, if it does not work, how long will it be before the damage shows up, and how bad will the damage be? Maybe it will take 10,000 miles, maybe 50,000 miles?? Maybe the engine will fail due to something unrelated to the oil, and there won't be enough left to determine why the failure happened.
WE are not willing to take that gamble, are you ?
Then, take a minute to think of WHY you want to use a synthetic. If a rotary engine (properly maintained, oil changes at 3K intervals, etc.) can still be running fine at over 200,000 miles, the engine does not need any more cooling, the gas milage will not be any better, etc. etc. WHY do you want to spend more $$ and gamble on engine and/or spark plug damage? (If you are into the fossil fuel thing, pollution, depleting our resources, etc. then you should not be driving ANY car!)
We are not chemists, and we do not have the time, $$'s, nor inclination to do 100K mile tests of various synthetics in rotary engines.
We DO use synthetics in the transmissions and rear ends - it works fine.
Anyway - that is the MAZDATRIX version of the synthetic question.
Racing Beat has been recommending the use of synthetic oils in rotary applications for several years. Our research has found that synthetic oils provide superior friction reducing between sliding surfaces, reduced foaming, and lower oil temperatures. We have tested several different synthetic oils and have found that while most offered improved wear and lower oil temperatures, none offered any horsepower gains... except for Royal Purple!
Our in-house testing has yielded up to a 2% performance increase after changing from mineral-based oil to Royal Purple Synthetic Motor Oil. How could this be? Jim Mederer, co-founder and chief engineer at Racing Beat, was truly puzzled. With over 35 years of professional racing experience under his belt, he has seen and tried just about every “new” lubricant that hits the market. All offered better wear and lower oil temperatures but none offered any horsepower improvement. After spending time consulting with the engineers at Royal Purple to better understand the reason for the horsepower gain, it was explained that the secret was the proprietary ingredient “Synerlec”. This Synerlec ingredient provides an ultra-slick film on internal engine components to significantly reduce power-robbing friction. Less friction equals more power!
Other professional engine builders have confirmed that Royal Purple Synthetic Racing Oil delivers measurable horsepower gains. Independent dyno tests show increases up to 5% (on smaller displacement engines) with nothing more than an oil change.
Additional info from Dave at FC3s.ORG:
The combustion temps in the rotary engine are about what 1200-1600F? Can anyone tell me what temp most synthetic oil hits flash point? ~600F Now with that in mind, what are the odds that there is going to be leftovers in the combustion chamber from oil? The older oils didn't have the technology that we have today. That is the reason that the synthetic oils used to have a bad rap. Older oils used to not be good, and most if not all were very bad to use in the rotary engine. I use royal purple racing 21 in our Project 86 TII and I use royal purple 10W30 regular synthetic oil in my 91 N/A vert. I gained 3HP on the G-Tech and aftermarket oil gauges registered -5F just at idle and up to -15 under hard boost. Oil pressure was lowered by about 3-5psi compared to dino oil.
Like I said before: If you are worried, stay with dyno... If you want to go synth, go ahead.. but make sure the oil has no ash. If you don't care, the do whatever... Just change your oil often!
12-17-2003, 07:47 PM
#215
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Ok gang, here is Mazda's response to my return e-mail to them.
Dear Glen,
Mazda's position is - until further testing can be completed we do not recommend synthetic oil.
I'd be happy to reimburse you for your synthetic oil change. Please fax that receipt to my attention - my fax number is 949-727-6703. I would also like to either send you a certificate to have the oil changed back to regular oil or you could fax a receipt to my attention -whatever works best for you.
You are a valued customer, Glen, for this reason I'm sending you two $** (deleted by Glen) Valued Consumer Gift Certificates. These can be used towards the purchase of accessories or services for your RX-8.
Regards,
Jennifer Gray
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Although Mazda's lack of research before issuing a statement that they had to retract concerns me, they certainly do try and make amends. I applaud them for that.
I also wonder how big of a deal they now think synthetic oil is since they were so quick to reimburse me for the Mobil1 oil change and pay/reimburse me to have it changed back??
I know some are wondering why I deleted the amount of the gift certificates. It is just something I feel strongly about in regards to any money and privacy. I will say it was less than $100. and was a nice gesture.
So I'm back to "dino" oil again.
Dear Glen,
Mazda's position is - until further testing can be completed we do not recommend synthetic oil.
I'd be happy to reimburse you for your synthetic oil change. Please fax that receipt to my attention - my fax number is 949-727-6703. I would also like to either send you a certificate to have the oil changed back to regular oil or you could fax a receipt to my attention -whatever works best for you.
You are a valued customer, Glen, for this reason I'm sending you two $** (deleted by Glen) Valued Consumer Gift Certificates. These can be used towards the purchase of accessories or services for your RX-8.
Regards,
Jennifer Gray
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Although Mazda's lack of research before issuing a statement that they had to retract concerns me, they certainly do try and make amends. I applaud them for that.
I also wonder how big of a deal they now think synthetic oil is since they were so quick to reimburse me for the Mobil1 oil change and pay/reimburse me to have it changed back??
I know some are wondering why I deleted the amount of the gift certificates. It is just something I feel strongly about in regards to any money and privacy. I will say it was less than $100. and was a nice gesture.
So I'm back to "dino" oil again.
12-17-2003, 10:34 PM
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It sounds like the Eternal Argument goes on even inside Mazda. IMO if Mazda knew for a fact that synthetic oil caused specific problems they would say so. They haven't, so as far as I'm concerned, they don't. They are clearly worried about it of course, but it sounds more like a liability paranoia than anything else. It comes down to this...do your research and decide for yourself. No one is going to give you a good solid provable reason to not use synthetics, because they don't exist. There are loads and loads of stories and rumors that get spread back and forth (e.g. synthetics don't burn, they leave ash residue when they do burn, etc. etc.) but this is hardly a substitute for anything scientific. So...on the one hand, the known benefits and on the other, the risk that there is a kernel of truth at the bottom of all of the rumors and myths and paranoid warnings. Certainly, it has been shown that rotaries work just fine on "regular" oil.
jds
PS: One other point...It would not be all that obvious on tear-down that synthetic oil is present. Its basically the same stuff at heart as dino-oil. If its my dime, I'm probably not going to proclaim loudly that I've been using synthetic when I take a blown motor in for warranty work!
jds
jds
PS: One other point...It would not be all that obvious on tear-down that synthetic oil is present. Its basically the same stuff at heart as dino-oil. If its my dime, I'm probably not going to proclaim loudly that I've been using synthetic when I take a blown motor in for warranty work!
jds
12-20-2003, 10:12 AM
#218
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Just changed my oil to AMSOil XL-7500 5W-20 synthetic. I was pretty happy - it took almost 5 quarts. I drove the driver's side front wheel up on the curb in front of my driveway - that must have allowed some of the oil from the left cooler to flow into the sump. Now I'm hoping for a little mileage improvement (we can always hope, can't we?)!
12-20-2003, 04:30 PM
#219
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Amsoil 7500 is a group 3. Its a mineral oil(very refined). It should be as well as all the other blended 20wt oils.
Mobil1 is just as good as Amsoil/Redline/....
Valvoline is a group 3 with a lame additive package. Less additives means cleaner burning. So, its another mineral oil. Nothing wrong with it.
It will again(in several years) come down to owners' care.
The engines that will fail will have infrequent oil change intervals(7.5k), will be shut off cold(all those milky oil complaints), will carbon up(engines that aren't driven hard), will carbon up(engines that don't see a bottle of FI cleaner every now and then), will overheat(coolant not changed yearly), .........
I could go on and on.
Mobil1 is just as good as Amsoil/Redline/....
Valvoline is a group 3 with a lame additive package. Less additives means cleaner burning. So, its another mineral oil. Nothing wrong with it.
It will again(in several years) come down to owners' care.
The engines that will fail will have infrequent oil change intervals(7.5k), will be shut off cold(all those milky oil complaints), will carbon up(engines that aren't driven hard), will carbon up(engines that don't see a bottle of FI cleaner every now and then), will overheat(coolant not changed yearly), .........
I could go on and on.
12-21-2003, 12:18 PM
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As a engineer I sugest Mobil 1 0-W-40 in all cases, after 2 or 3 oil changes the dual oil coolers of course will be complete.
I also should mention that the transmission (manual) be changed to synthetic also.
Kind regards,
Doug Green
Las Vegas
I also should mention that the transmission (manual) be changed to synthetic also.
Kind regards,
Doug Green
Las Vegas
12-21-2003, 06:30 PM
#221
Before you start using 0w-40 mobil1.... You might want to stop by and check out some of the UOA's on the 0w-40 at bob's.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
Some guy's over there aren't too happy with the particular additive package in the 0w-40 mobil1.
Btw found a UOA on an rx8
.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=001030
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
Some guy's over there aren't too happy with the particular additive package in the 0w-40 mobil1.
Btw found a UOA on an rx8
.http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=001030
12-22-2003, 08:39 PM
#224
i've used syths in my past cars but now that i have free maintenance from the buyback option, i guess i'll have to settle with regular oil...i REALLY doubt the dealer is gonna give me synth for free
