treyoh5

^link plz

ASH8

..my Doh!.., You Yanks...a Flashlight!!...it's a Torch Battery....
''' ...Take a Torch to my Car!!!...Classic.."""

ASH8

YEP.. and as Paul and I know Mazda do this ALL the time, the Next Series is always the "Improved" car, Mazda always hold off with all the changes and then BANG, just like the Series II 09 NC MX-5 (Miata), why do you think I held off for so long until I purchased?, because I know how Mazda operate..and I am not being a smarts ***... are the S2's perfect...NO...will they die also..Probably.

But yes, Mazda stuffed up big time with S1 MOP, not to have a middle Oil Injector is Bloody Madness!

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

One of the things that happened at Mazda IMO was they retired a lot of experienced rotary engineers. A few problems recurred afterward that never should: Fuel flooding is a prime example. Less than optimum cooling is another.

If I was allowed on commitee with the current crop I could raise some simple topics that are critical from experience The rotary really needs to become more like the recip engine: People should not have to check things so often and worry about much. Anything less keeps it a niche, tiny market engine.

ASH8

OH.. and Mazda stuffed up with the Oil Pressure in S1, they should of at least installed the FD's larger Rotor (Larger Capacity) Oil Pump, instead of using the 30 yo FC non turbo one, and increase the by pass pressure.

And I am convinced Open Up the Rear (and front if you can) of Oil Cooler's for air movement around your Oil Coolers, better air flow, cooler oil, cooler coolant temps.

The S1 OC intake is too restrictive and so is the rear for Summer Temps.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Here are my apex seals of choice (Iannetti of course). These are the only seals used by Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development for the Renesis in racing. They are tolerant to great temperatures and pressures without deformation and will neither wear the apex seal grooves nor the rotor housing surface. They are light weight and can run increased spring pressures keeping them adhereing to the housing's trochoidal surface at rpms exceeding 8k rpms.

This is in response to the question about what I would do with a stock 04 car.

Paul.

madcows

I don't see how easy to produce flooding, and cooling issues have managed to get overlooked during testing. Have they relied too heavily on computer simulation?

madcows

I would love to have a set of iannetti apex seals donated to me

I meant to ask earlier; how important is apex seal lubrication when you use these seals?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

lube still needed--not for the seals per say but for the rotary housings
OD

madcows

Ok, looking over the service highlights for the OCV, I'm still not certain about it, but here is my take:

The pressure to the EMOPs need to be regulated to ensure that the pressure isn't high enough to force open the check valves without the plunger. Also, the benefit of being able to electronically control a flush cycle seals the deal on why they don't use a mechanical pressure regulator instead. Besides that, I can't see any other need for the OCV.

Also, the service highlights does not seem to make mention of the OCV being used to control overall engine OP, so that leaves only the relief valve in the oil pump at 156 psi! Hmmmmmm.....

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Less important with these since they're so naturally lubricious.

Paul.

Christianv

Dang. Not exactly reassuring, especially coming from an expert like yourself. In your opinion and experience, are the changes to the S2 Renesis sufficient to stretch the life of the engine to 150k or so?

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I want a naturally lubricious rotary! Sounds tasty!

ASH8

Paul,
I understand there are also some very good (well regarded) Australian Made (I think) Apex Seals for competition and domestic use, sorry can't recall the name (had the link somewhere), they are ridiculously expensive...but the "Best" ..apparently..

Have you heard of Australian made Apex Seals?

ASH8

While I sort of agree with your OCV comment, I suggest you go back and look at the Oil Flow Diagram for Series II in Service Highlights as there are TWO return lines which directs Oil back in the Oil Pan (Sump) related to the OCV..

One from the EMOP as an "Oil Passage" to the Oil Pan
One from the OCV as a "Oil Relief Passage" to the Oil Pan.
I take "Relief" as pressure regulating, otherwise it would be called an "Oil Passage"?

On another note you asked Paul,
I was told by my Mazda Australia contact that Mazda did not do enough HOT Weather and Location testing of RX-8 mules and pre-production cars, while their Cold/Snow weather testing was very extensive, because of production schedules much of their Hot or Heat related testing was done in their artificial testing labs.

Remember most of the "Coolant Cooling" changes on the S2 were minor, slightly changed Water Pump, increased Coolant Capacity (radiator) of around 280 mils (I think, only a small glass full), more significantly a "Medium" Cooling Fan Speed with Two new Electric Fan Motors of the same (Part Number wise), fan blades remain the same.

IMO where the more significant temperature changes are in the Oil Coolers with the redesigned front Bumper and much Larger Air Intake area for Air Flow, however, more air capable in the front, but the same rear exit holes for the hot air.

As we know some of this Hot Air is supposed to be extracted out by the higher mounted Fender Indicator Light Grilles, but the exit hole is actually smaller than the Series 1 Fender Vents, but again, Hot air rises?..

I also believe, that by (Owner Modding) opening up the rear Oil Cooler Vents dramatically makes the Oil Coolers more efficient at their task (hence my Mod), we are having Extreme Hot days today (will be a week of 38-39C (102F) a new state record for November), I have noticed my maximum coolant temps are 4-5 degrees C lower than with same temps last year.

So that little bit less work for the Cooling Fans, happier Oil Temps, happier Renny....I hope..

ASH8

lubricious. SOUNDS TASTY!!!

AS far as how long the RENESIS or RENESIS II lasts, I have always thought that Most cars today are designed to last around 10 years or 160,000 KMS (100K Miles)...

I am talking ALL parts and bodywork...BEFORE you have to start spending SERIOUS Money to keep it on the road...

So AFAIAC anything more than 10/100K is a Bonus...

What do you guys think....???

I don't think manufacturers test or make any parts or supplier parts to last any longer than 10 years...

Even TV's, Refrigerators, Washing Machines...everything, do they last longer than 10 years???...I don't think so...

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Well, I hope the body of the 8 makes it through 100k miles because I'm putting 18 on it a year even splitting miles with another car as much as I can stand.

madcows

Reading over the highlights, it sounds to me like the "oil relief passage" is where the oil is purged out of when it does an OCV flush (it sounds like there is both, and OCV, and an EMOP flush - I assume they both occur somewhat simultaneously). Unfortunately, the OCV diagram sucks, so it's still somewhat hard to see whats going on.

Actually..... wait.. what? Ugh, I'll get back to this at a later time. It now sounds to me as if the PCM controls the current to the coils enabling it to control just how much the spool moves. Ok, I'm bored with the OCV for now..


Confirmation: It *IS* an OP sensor, and not a switch:

"
OIL PRESSURE SENSOR CONSTRUCTION/OPERATION [13B-MSP]
x Installed the metering oil pump No.1.
x When pressure is applied to the piezoelectric
element in the sensor, an electric potential
difference occurs.
x Output voltage increases ad the oil pressure
increases.
"




Good thing (kinda) I'm missing the part of my inner wheel well that covers the backs and bottom of the oil coolers.. It's just a matter of time before some road debris destroys them

madcows

I don't know about anyone else, but in america, most people expect their cars to last beyond 100k miles. Many of us drive so much that that kind of mileage can be accumulated in just several years.

ASH8

Oil Pressure Sensor Switch...it is a Parts thing...we always called them Oil pressure Switches...but yes a sensor, but it still does the same job a "switch" does and it is the ONLY monitor for OP in a S2...

My mate where I worked has just been promoted to Service Manager (Mazda Dealer) so I will ask him if I can borrow anything that Dealers may have to describe all the changes in more detail and how they work exactly...somehow I don't thing they would have anymore info than the US 09 Service Highlights Manual...worth a try...

So when are you buying a S2 mad???

ASH8

I did not say it won't go farther did I..??...

Yes.. you may get 300K in miles, but I bet you have to repair or replace something???..

I did say Before you have to spend Serious money..

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I mean if you buy a new 8 and finance for six years (now way I would do that but...) and you average 20k a year you won't even be done paying it off before you have major issues.

madcows

Switches...sensors... yeah whatever! I would imagine that the value of the sensor is accessible on the CAN line.. But then again, I don't think it's really in a good spot to measure engine OP.

I would totoally get an S2 if I could find one for $5,200 + some parts like I found my '04 for!

ASH8

I found two separate Workshop manuals On-line copied from the Original Mazda S1 RX-8 Workshop Manuals, both have the Oil pressure referenced/taken at the same position with the exact same factory Oil Pressure guage as the Series II.

Note: The S1 oil pressure is 50% lower at the same RPM's and oil Temp...
Again IMO reinforces my belief that the S1 can do with the Rear By Pass Valve Mod/upgrade to improve Oil Pressure inside E-shaft and Bearings...

madcows

But the rear bypass mod will not affect the system pressure at that rev range anyways.