nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well, I now owned a 91 NA FC. it uses R12 refrigerant. and its "far" superior than R134a(sadly this sucker has a leak that I need to find ...)

since its possible to convert R12 system to run R134a (for most), Im just wondering if its possible to put R12 into our system.(need a flush of some kind?) cuz seriously our AC suck ***. it can't cool **** when its 90+ degrees. R12(or Freeze 12) thing is less stressful to the compressor,and cools a lot better.

Just wondering if its even possible to do something like that. if not, I just delete this post (to avoid confusing n00bs )

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

See it you can get ahold of HC-12. It is suppose to be better than R-134a or R-12. It is illegal to use in some states.

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-Your-Car%27s-Air-Conditioner

rotarygod

Freeze 12 is half R-12 and half Propane. I still have a can in my toolbox. You need less of it than you do R-12 and it runs at higher pressures. Considering how R-12 is up somewhere near $200 a can, I'm not sure why you'd want to convert an R-134A car over to it. I do think it's better but it's prohibitively expensive. I dread the day when my RX-7 a/c goes out.

Thanks to the wonderful EPA, R-134A will probably be gone within the next 10 years. They're working on it. They want to replace it with something less efficient yet.

Georgia8er

Freeze 12 does not have propane in it. It is around 90% R134a and 10% R12 to carry the oil.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

http://www.allpar.com/eek/ac.html

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

In my searching, I found that the EU is banning it within a couple of years. CO2 is looking like the replacement at the moment. Maybe we could use NO2.

I still have a refill can of R12 and guage setting around. Anyone?

cajunrx8

The EPA ****'s are on their way to your house!!!!! Al Gore and Obama will have you strung up and quartered!

invasion08

iTrader: (7)

Use the same freon that you already have in your system. Not all freon is the same. Also if you were to switch freon you would need to evacuate your whole system.

ndhoffma

Yeah... pretty much every heat pump(fridge, ac, etc) in the EU is now being done with CO2... doesnt work too well, but I suppose when it leaks or the appliances are destroyed, its not too bad for the earth at all

ken-x8

But CO2 is the infamous greenhouse gas! I wonder how long before EU (which tends to operate on politics rather than science) bans that.

BTW - those alternate refrigerants like Freeze12 are mixtures of several gases. If you have a leak the gases will not all leak at the same rate. So you can eventually wind up with a different mix than the one that worked when you first put it in.

Ken

ndhoffma

sarcasm on the CO2 I hope? R12 & 134a are a tad bit worse

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

CO2 rofl !

Well Ken is right, Freeze12 is a blend of different gas. was it like 80/20 or something I dont remember.

but I gotta say all "good" refrigerants will harm the earth one way or the other

R134a suck ***, might as well use something like Freeze12.

Georgia8er

I'm not sure you'd gain switching to Freeze12, considering how much R134a is in there. I use it in my truck since I didn't want to do a complete conversion, and it seems to work great, and have been using it for over 10 years now probably. Since my dad owned an auto shop and air conditioning was a major part of his business, I was able to use the leftover R12 for a while. I even went so far one day when I was needing a little R12 that I hooked the low side of my A/C system to the junk cars in the lot and sucked what little refrigerant they had out haha.

Nubo

Thankfully, we've been taking action to protect the Ozone layer for some time now. While new refrigerants may be less thermodynamically efficient, it's certainly possible to build a satisfactory AC system with them. And the prospect of losing the Ozone layer is really quite a bit more frightening than having our "freon rights" taken away.

You'd expect prosecution if someone poisoned a well with Arsenic, right? The cops would be the good guys in that scenario, right?

So if someone poisons something that makes life on Earth possible, and the EPA tries to stop them, now we're talking about *****?

Sorry, I'm siding with the ***** here.

Nubo

I suppose that's tongue-in-cheek, but maybe not?

The amount of CO2 used as refrigerant would be quite meaningless compared to the millions of tons per day being added to our atmosphere from combustion of fossil fuels. Aside from that, CO2 can be obtained easily directly from the atmosphere. I don't think we'd be burning fossil fuels to create the refrigerant.

ken-x8

I'm really ragging on the EU, not on CO2.

I remember when the goal for emissions was an engine that exhausted nothing but CO2 and water vapor. Now it turns out that both of those, in the quantities we're capable of producing, are bad. Industry wound up going down the same path with R134a. Fighting entropy is an endless iteration.

Your comment about being able to make a good AC system with the new refrigerants is right on. My wife's '94 Camry uses R134a, and its AC is every bit as good as in any car I've ever driven. It's also the only car we've had that has never needed any AC service.

Ken

04RX8man

No the EPA IS trying to get A/C systems to use co2 but they will be running pressures like 3000psi or something crazy like that! It's just a matter of time!

cajunrx8

Nubo I won't argue the point, the environment needs to be protected but where does it end?!?!?!
My beef is that we are being run over by "chicken little" style science and politics!!! EPA *****!!
What is the status of the ozone hole now?
That is not even a topic anymore because the next big thing that will kill us all is in vogue, I.E. Global Warming!!!!
When I was in 2nd grade in 1971 we were going to be frozen due to all the pollutants in the air blocking out the sun.
Then in the early 80's R12 and CFC's were going to cause us to roast from sunlight.
Now CO2 and cow farts are going to blanket the earth with greenhouse gases and we are going to die from heat and water levels rising.
What will be the next harbinger of death for earth???
Give a scientist government money and he will tell you any F@#$ing thing to keep the money flowing.

Sorry if this is not allowed, but I am fed up with it all and wanted to state my case.

ken-x8

Global warming is real, and it's something to be concerned about. Some is part of a natural cycle (we did come out of an ice age 10,000 years ago) and some is man-made. Man made part has been escalating.

But I think the science behind the pollutants is also good. There is the famous "year without a summer" in 1816, from volcanic ash. We've done a great job of cleaning up particulate emissions which would have been what your 2nd grade teacher talked about.

Remember the specter of nuclear winter? I've wondered why nobody has suggested setting off a few nukes to counter global warming.

And to stay on topic...if anyone changes out the refrigerant in their system, make sure to get the old stuff pumped out and reclaimed by a properly licensed and equipped AC shop.

Ken

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

For my FC, Im going to do it with the "OLD SCHOOL" way ... it has a leak somewhere so all the stuff is gone. gonna have to find the leak ...

For my 8 ... AC still works, but Im really thinking is it possible to get those 134a stuff out, flush the oil, add some oil and use Freeze12 kind of stuff.