Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like he was doing what I suggested by cycling the valves... what they call an IDS, I was calling WDS.
It does appear that the valves are sticking.
Might be a way to free them up a little longer... maybe Dave can help you on this.

Since the valves are actually moving (although slowly) under the motor's own power, you might be able to use SeaFoam by pouring it down the auxiliary runners.
They sell SeaFoam in a non-aresol bottle, which will be better for pouring it down the auxiliary runners (though the aresol can will work too).
Now if the valves are stuck open, the opening into the engine will be on the valve's side (which is good) so It'll help some fluid to flow around the barrels (while the rest goes into the engine... more on that later).

Now pouring down the auxiliary runners will involve removing the UIM (upper intake manifold), which is where Dave might be able to help you with.
Let the SeaFoam sit for a while (like a decarb) and cycle the valves to work the fluid around the barrel.
I don't expect you guys to wire 12VDC like I do... so luckily I thought of another way...
When you turn the ignition off, the PCM sends a signal to the APV to cycle once to help free carbon build-up.
So you guys could cycle the valve by turning the key to 'ON', then back to 'OFF' several times while you listen to them.
Hopefully it'll get better and better the more times you cycle them.

Then we have the "issue" where the SeaFoam is in the engine.
Normally its not bad since we use it anyway, but by pouring it down (possibly excessive), you might "flood" the engine.
So if the engine has a difficult time starting, you'll need to de-flood (which is something else Dave might be able to help with).

I really tried to come up with something that the most notice person could do (though removing the UIM isn't exactly easy for the first timer), but this is the best I could think of for you guys to try if you want to avoid the dealer.

getoutdaway

^^
Jon, thanks so much for your help, its been very helpful!
I am still waiting to see how much (if any) Mazda will take off the cost of the fix. If the fix is too much, I'll definitely look into the Seafoam process you talk about and contact Dave about it. ONce again, thanks so much!

getoutdaway

Just talked to the tech again.

1. He said Mazda reviewed my service records and will cover 50% of the cost of the service, from $1400 down to $700

2. He also said that since he noticed that the car had the previous loss of power issue (coils/plugs/wires), he suggested to Mazda that he do a compression test to see if I need a new engine.

Thanks guys for your help! I'll let you know what happens w/ the compression test. If they do put in a new engine, would it still have the same APV/intake manifold, and need the service? or would it come with a new one? Thanks!

getoutdaway

Just talked to the tech:

-The compression test was low enough for me to get a new engine. That's good, right?

-He said there is a 2 week backlog on new engines so I'd have to come get my car tomorrow and bring it back in 2 weeks. Also, he said I can get new parts installed for no labor while the engine is being put in (hoses, clutch, metering oil hosel?, etc)

Overall, its a relief. Thanks for all your help guys, I'm almost positive that without the PDF SErvice BUlletin in here, or the questions from Jon and Dave, I wouldn't have been able to ask the questions I needed to. Love this forum!

Mazurfer

Well, I think you probably ended up with the best scenerio overall and yes, I believe the re-man motor will have an APV in it already.

Now............

An engine replacement under PowerTrain warranty (60k) would be completely free. However, when Mazda extended the engine core warranty, they only extended the CORE engine itself. There are a lot of other things that need replacing when an engine is replaced, like hoses, gaskets, seals, fluids, etc..., but are not actually part of the engine core itself.

I would not let them re-use the old fuel line. On more than one occasion a dealer has replaced an engine under warranty and re-used the old fuel line, which weakens considerably when removed and re-attached, and it popped off during a shakedown drive or after awhile, ignited massive engine fires, one time nearly killing a tech, and burnt the 8’s to the ground. Certain stuff HAS to be replaced, but isn't part of the engine. In fact the Mazda FSM supposedly says in it somewhere not to re-use it!

In general, Plugs, wires, and coils, are a total of $280 if you buy them yourself from forum vendors. You may or may not need these in your case.

Typically an engine replacement outside of the powertrain warranty but within the extended core warranty is about $500.
That number would include coils and plugs and certainly the fuel hose(N3H1-13-495B is the part number and is about $40.00)

The trouble with that particular line is this that the plastic clips that have to be expanded to release and to reinstall become a little stretched when doing so. This line is the only fuel line that has a very small red fitting down in one side of the connectors that is held in place by the plastic clip. If that clip is not tight enough then that red sealer/spacer can work its way out causing a large fuel leak that pools in the space between the lim and engine block. There are several rather large spaces down there. Pooled gas on a hot engine /exhaust side is a disaster in the making--so when fire occurs it’s not just a little fire---it’s big. This line actually moves just a little with changing fuel pressures and that is how that red spacer can work itself free if that clip is not good and tight. It’s a very poor design.

I would actually take the time and read through this thread a little bit. At first this guy is just getting his engine replaced. The next thing you know is his car is burnt to a crisp due to that fuel line. The thread will have pics of the hose about mid-wat through the thread.



https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...46473#poststop

Anything else I will say via PM, so look for one!

Mazurfer

And?
Any updates here "getoutdaway" ?

getoutdaway

Just took it in (there was delay on engine getting to dealer). THey're putting in new engine now.

They just gave me an estimate of $1500 for new parts and labor (while engine is out)

Air filter: $30?
Motor mounts (2): $400+
Clutch: $600+
Hoses(2): $100
Another part or two I can't recall
Labor: clean intake manifold ($150) - all other parts at $0 labor

Would you guys go ahead and get the above parts and labor done? Presumably I'm getting $1200 of parts put in little or no labor, while the new engine is being put in, so its a no brainer? Am I really saving $$$ of labor down the road by paying the $1500 now? Thanks in advance!

Mazurfer

Well, you saw my PM, so we need inputs for more experience owners.

Here's my take:

Air filter: $30? No!

Motor mounts (2): $400+ maybe, but....look a here...and see if you think you are paying too much! http://www.finishlineperformance.com...cat=338&page=2 and http://www.finishlineperformance.com...cat=338&page=2

Clutch: $600+ Really can't comment without knowing how much it's worn, and not sure of price.

Hoses(2): $100 See PM. I wouldn't because I can do it myself, but you may not be able to do so or want to do so. Also, that price depends on what hoses?
I'm running Blue Agency Power 5 ply Silicone Radiator Hoses at 145.00



Another part or two I can't recall
Labor: clean intake manifold ($150) - all other parts at $0 labor Need help here. Might sound stupid of me, but I would think you'd get a new intake manifold with the reman engine....maybe not.......anyone? anyone?

getoutdaway

Thanks Mazurfer!

Motor mounts are actually $300 ($120+$180), but yes, those internet prices are still way cheaper! I talked to tech who said the motor mounts are the "most optional" as they're external and won't affect the engine, and will only give idle vibration.

For clutch, tech said the disc is worn and I could just replace the disc (minimal), but I told him to just replace the whole thing as he suggested the rest of the clutch was "less optional" than the motor mounts.

Air filter: my air filter was dirty as heck! Whoever was opening my air filter casing wasn't opening it up enough and jammed my air filter in and scratched the outside edge, so the seal got damaged, preventing it from doing its job and filtering air. This is probably why I need a new one.

Mazurfer

Motor mounts are actually $300 ($120+$180), but yes, those internet prices are still way cheaper! I talked to tech who said the motor mounts are the "most optional" as they're external and won't affect the engine, and will only give idle vibration. <-- True, if they look okay and not cracked and no vibration, let them go.

For clutch, tech said the disc is worn and I could just replace the disc (minimal), but I told him to just replace the whole thing as he suggested the rest of the clutch was "less optional" than the motor mounts. <-- Sounds legit

Air filter: my air filter was dirty as heck! Whoever was opening my air filter casing wasn't opening it up enough and jammed my air filter in and scratched the outside edge, so the seal got damaged, preventing it from doing its job and filtering air. This is probably why I need a new one.<-- Agreed, you should be doing your own!

Hartsk8s

Have them install a new fuel line... some dudes car caught fire after the dealership replaced his engine... theres a thread on here about it... and its because the plastic clips on the fuel line are not meant to be re-used... When they remove it they have to bend the clips loose and the clips just dont "clip" back into place like they should, therefor you have a loose fuel line on an hot engine...

in the end if there is one thing to pay for, have them install a new fuel line or if possible just the plastic ends.

Edit: Mazurfer already covered this, didnt get far enough into the thread, my fault, but anyway good suggestion

Mazurfer

^...............FYI..............it's happened more than once. However most dealers think your crazy when you mention it.

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

Hey Jon,

Is there much of a difference in pouring the Seafoam directly into the runners vs using the service nipples for this issue?

I have the same issue right now and was going to do a seafoam treatment but it's quite cold up here and I was hoping to avoid having to remove the UIM if possible. Using hte service nipples, would any of the Seafoam actually get to the valves?

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

-- or alternatively, directly through the throttle body's VFAD nipple?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

it will not get there.

and u gotta remove the UIM.

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

That's what I figured. Sigh. If only it wasnt below freezing out.

tacryer

Awesome advice! Im running a few codes, this one included so ill try this method and see if it helps. Ive got a few more codes to figure out as well. Yay!

xAgyex

Wow, so awesome to see my post is still helping folks.