Oil temp, coolant temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, housing temp, etc.
10-29-2010, 05:18 PM
#1
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Oil temp, coolant temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, housing temp, etc.
Okay so I have been thinking lately (trying not to hurt myself). I want to get your thoughts on the best place to monitor various types of data such as oil temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.
Oil temp. Very important on a rotary engine. I have converted to a single Fluidyne oil cooler and I measure oil temps at the oil filter return. So for instance, this morning, after a full warm up, my average oil temps were about 175-180F cruising to work. I can get them to 215F during a canyon run. So, if I am at 215F on the return line after my very efficient 28" Fluidyne cooler, what is the temperature of the oil going into the cooler?
This got me thinking about something Dannobre told me. He measures oil temps at the oil pan. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. The oil in the pan should be about as hot as it is going to get outside of the rotors themselves right? So, I am thinking of getting a Greddy pan or tapping the OEM pan and having a bung welded in.
Oil pressure Some may argue it's not that important to monitor regularly. I measure at the same adapter at the oil filter. I am thinking it should be measured at the same place the factory service manual test oil pressure at. So I am thinking if getting a "T" that will hold both the factory oil pressure sending unit and the oil pressure gauge sending unit. Is this the best spot? Does it matter, or is oil pressure the same as long as you are in the path of oil? I also have the Mazmart oil pressure mod and I was seeing a bit of increased pressure before that just with the single oil cooler conversion.
Fuel pressure Very important. I monitor this at the Aeromotive adapter installed on the factory fuel rail feed line. I think that is about as good as it gets.
Coolant Temp Pretty important to have a gauge with an alarm because the factory gauge is useless. I am monitored through the ECU via the stock location. I think that is a s good as it gets.
EGT/Cat temp. A must for FI guys. I monitor through the ECU. Is the cat temp even the same as having a bung for an EGT sensor?
Voltage. Not necessary unless you are having electrical issues. I monitor through ECU. I think that is as good as it gets.
AF Ratio Very important if you are FI or if you tune at all. I monitor through the ECU. Is having an aftermarket bung, wide band O2, and controller better than what data we get from the ECU? I don't think so, from what I have read the factory wide band is pretty good.
Boost. If you are FI, this is a given. Location will vary depending on setup.
Cylinder head temp. I recently looked at a sensor for this that you slip over the spark plug end before installation. This has been used on piston engines forever but would watching the housing temps tell us anything? Having experienced heat soak after a day of driving I am thinking this would help me to avoid this.
Nitrous pressure. Obviously if you spray this is important. I monitor at the ZEX NMU and I will be installing a liquid filled gauge on the bottle as well.
Shift Light. Good idea, used by many track guys. A company called raptor makes a small subtle one. I may look into this.
Transmission Temp. If I had a modified auto i would have this gauge for sure. Where is the best place to get this data?
Hour Meter. For tracking maintenence. Thsi is used on race cars and off road vehicle rather than going by mileage. This would be for the OCD people like me
Please feel free to chime with your thoughts on the subject. I did this real quick so if I missed anything let me know.
Oil temp. Very important on a rotary engine. I have converted to a single Fluidyne oil cooler and I measure oil temps at the oil filter return. So for instance, this morning, after a full warm up, my average oil temps were about 175-180F cruising to work. I can get them to 215F during a canyon run. So, if I am at 215F on the return line after my very efficient 28" Fluidyne cooler, what is the temperature of the oil going into the cooler?
This got me thinking about something Dannobre told me. He measures oil temps at the oil pan. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. The oil in the pan should be about as hot as it is going to get outside of the rotors themselves right? So, I am thinking of getting a Greddy pan or tapping the OEM pan and having a bung welded in.
Oil pressure Some may argue it's not that important to monitor regularly. I measure at the same adapter at the oil filter. I am thinking it should be measured at the same place the factory service manual test oil pressure at. So I am thinking if getting a "T" that will hold both the factory oil pressure sending unit and the oil pressure gauge sending unit. Is this the best spot? Does it matter, or is oil pressure the same as long as you are in the path of oil? I also have the Mazmart oil pressure mod and I was seeing a bit of increased pressure before that just with the single oil cooler conversion.
Fuel pressure Very important. I monitor this at the Aeromotive adapter installed on the factory fuel rail feed line. I think that is about as good as it gets.
Coolant Temp Pretty important to have a gauge with an alarm because the factory gauge is useless. I am monitored through the ECU via the stock location. I think that is a s good as it gets.
EGT/Cat temp. A must for FI guys. I monitor through the ECU. Is the cat temp even the same as having a bung for an EGT sensor?
Voltage. Not necessary unless you are having electrical issues. I monitor through ECU. I think that is as good as it gets.
AF Ratio Very important if you are FI or if you tune at all. I monitor through the ECU. Is having an aftermarket bung, wide band O2, and controller better than what data we get from the ECU? I don't think so, from what I have read the factory wide band is pretty good.
Boost. If you are FI, this is a given. Location will vary depending on setup.
Cylinder head temp. I recently looked at a sensor for this that you slip over the spark plug end before installation. This has been used on piston engines forever but would watching the housing temps tell us anything? Having experienced heat soak after a day of driving I am thinking this would help me to avoid this.
Nitrous pressure. Obviously if you spray this is important. I monitor at the ZEX NMU and I will be installing a liquid filled gauge on the bottle as well.
Shift Light. Good idea, used by many track guys. A company called raptor makes a small subtle one. I may look into this.
Transmission Temp. If I had a modified auto i would have this gauge for sure. Where is the best place to get this data?
Hour Meter. For tracking maintenence. Thsi is used on race cars and off road vehicle rather than going by mileage. This would be for the OCD people like me
Please feel free to chime with your thoughts on the subject. I did this real quick so if I missed anything let me know.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 10-30-2010 at 09:02 AM.
10-29-2010, 05:35 PM
#2
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cat temp as reported by the CANbus is signifigantly less than egt up at the ports/mani. but itis also useless if you already have a proper tune, and ultimately not needed for tuning.
10-29-2010, 05:58 PM
#3
AF Ratio Very important if you are FI or if you tune at all. I monitor through the ECU. Is having an aftermarket bung, wide band O2, and controller better than what data we get from the ECU? I don't think so, from what I have read the factory wide band is pretty good.
.
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Also very important to have the guage available at all times so you can see what is happening if something strange happens .
It is also essential to have the ability to log your afr so you can fine tune . Doing that off a guage would be next to impossible.
Also - unless you get a high quality aftermarket WB sensor they can be prone to failure at high temp so it's a good idea to place it downstream a ways .
However for testing purposes it is worth hooking it up before the throttle plate and monitoring part throttle .
Also worth looking at boost just after the turbo especially if you are pushing things as you can determine how much you lose over your system.
BTW ... Good idea for the thread 9k
Last edited by Brettus; 10-29-2010 at 06:24 PM.
10-29-2010, 06:17 PM
#4
You can monitor all kinds of stuff with defi gauges, location wise I think it's ok at whatever aftermarket company sells. Defi gauges, either standalone or central computer type, can set warning beep, record peak value, set to record every or any one's value(good for tuning)
I am thinking you are still thinking too much about the temps...
I am thinking you are still thinking too much about the temps...
10-29-2010, 06:38 PM
#5
Voltage can be important if you are running a standalone battery. When I ran the track in California we would run the engine with no other accessories. We would power the engine with a deep cycle battery. In this case voltage was important to make sure you didn’t die on the track.
Monitoring internal engine temps isn't critical if you have a good coolant and oil temp system.
I would personnelly run a custom boost and AF sensor. For the simple reason that the ones in the car are not set up for monitoring an FI system and don't always read high enough.
Monitoring internal engine temps isn't critical if you have a good coolant and oil temp system.
I would personnelly run a custom boost and AF sensor. For the simple reason that the ones in the car are not set up for monitoring an FI system and don't always read high enough.
10-29-2010, 10:10 PM
#6
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Thanks guys, good input. I have just been reading a couple of books lately and it has me understanding (or confusing me) the engine better. I mean, like I said if my oil temps are post cooler, so I think oil temps are pretty high inside the engine.
I have been looking at different Wide band options and data logging options and Innovate makes some great stuff too.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/kits.php
NYCGPS, I might be thinking too much but it's fun
I have been looking at different Wide band options and data logging options and Innovate makes some great stuff too.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/kits.php
NYCGPS, I might be thinking too much but it's fun
11-01-2010, 11:35 AM
#13
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That is something i wonder as well. I am not sure if Dannobre has any before and after data with his setup but it would be interesting to see. I have a bit of data from different times of the year so when I do it I should be able to see the difference.
11-01-2010, 12:29 PM
#15
fuel pressure variences are also starting to show its ugle little head. The benefit of a return system is becoming more of a desired item.
A dash system is also becoming more attractive--- you cant watch all those damn gauges all the time.
So on my line of sight there will be 3 gauges---coolant temp, fuel pressure, intake charge temps. Out of line of sight will be oil temp, a/f, boost /vacuum. Thats my goal.
My oil temp will be at the pan, my coolant temp is on the top radiator hose --not the heater hose. My intake charge temps is from the LIM. so is my boost/vac.
OD
A dash system is also becoming more attractive--- you cant watch all those damn gauges all the time.
So on my line of sight there will be 3 gauges---coolant temp, fuel pressure, intake charge temps. Out of line of sight will be oil temp, a/f, boost /vacuum. Thats my goal.
My oil temp will be at the pan, my coolant temp is on the top radiator hose --not the heater hose. My intake charge temps is from the LIM. so is my boost/vac.
OD
Last edited by olddragger; 11-01-2010 at 12:32 PM.
11-01-2010, 02:52 PM
#17
Well actually several things.
1- for us FI guys we can tell if the intercooler is working well or not
2- if your w/m spray is doing any good
3- heat soak---(if your cai is really working
I think if more people would actually look at charge heat temps they would really find things that can make a difference.
Recently one of out members had a lost of power issue that was finally found due to his charge temps being higher than what they should have been. He found some leaky stuff that was allow the intake to pull in hot under hood air. Now us FI guys do the same --just further down the intake and usually after the maf with yet another sensor.
Havent you ever wondered also if both rotors get the same air charge? Temp and volumne?
hehehe
1- for us FI guys we can tell if the intercooler is working well or not
2- if your w/m spray is doing any good
3- heat soak---(if your cai is really working
I think if more people would actually look at charge heat temps they would really find things that can make a difference.
Recently one of out members had a lost of power issue that was finally found due to his charge temps being higher than what they should have been. He found some leaky stuff that was allow the intake to pull in hot under hood air. Now us FI guys do the same --just further down the intake and usually after the maf with yet another sensor.
Havent you ever wondered also if both rotors get the same air charge? Temp and volumne?
hehehe
11-01-2010, 05:07 PM
#18
you could install a fuel cooling system. They are fairly cheap, and easy to install. They can drop engine temp a little bit. Basically it keeps the fuel lines away from the engine and keeps the fuel cooler until its used. Fuel heats up in the lines while it waits to enter the engine.
11-01-2010, 05:36 PM
#19
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I know many will doubt me but when I did this it did drop my intake temps quite a bit unfortunately none of my logs show it because I was not logging intake temps but my temp are very close to ambient at cruise which was never the case before. I have yet to see if it is effective in a high heat situation though.
basically I took the factory intake tube (no VFAD) out of a 2010 6 port Auto because it is of a greater diameter that the VFAD one and just ran generic intake tubing from autozone down to the front opening.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/4983967184/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/4983967184/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/9krpmrx8/, on Flickr
basically I took the factory intake tube (no VFAD) out of a 2010 6 port Auto because it is of a greater diameter that the VFAD one and just ran generic intake tubing from autozone down to the front opening.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/4983967184/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/4983967184/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/9krpmrx8/, on Flickr
12-13-2010, 10:40 AM
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Does anyone have any tips on where to have this mounted in the pan? The actual sensor I mean not the box 
Oh, and since I am installing the Racing beat lines on the car this sensor is going in, what are your thoughts on getting a fitting that has a NPT port in it that will go between the feed port at the oil pump and the oil line to the cooler? I know they make fitting like this, I have one similar on my nitrous line to facilitate my nitrous pressure gauge. But I cannot find one online, I will have to hit up the local fitting shop.
Oh, and since I am installing the Racing beat lines on the car this sensor is going in, what are your thoughts on getting a fitting that has a NPT port in it that will go between the feed port at the oil pump and the oil line to the cooler? I know they make fitting like this, I have one similar on my nitrous line to facilitate my nitrous pressure gauge. But I cannot find one online, I will have to hit up the local fitting shop.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 12-13-2010 at 11:11 AM.
01-08-2011, 10:41 PM
#21
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In case you didn't see my Odula thread. I think this is a great item. Hopefully you could source it from a fitting supplier locally. You could also install this on the Feed side as well.
01-08-2011, 10:49 PM
#22
if you get the right size sensor you can just mount it in place of the drain plug. You would just need to be extra careful not to damage it when you did you drain and fills. You can even upgrade the pan while your at it to the one that is finned for better cooling of the oil. I believe it has a higher capacity too.
01-08-2011, 10:56 PM
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if you get the right size sensor you can just mount it in place of the drain plug. You would just need to be extra careful not to damage it when you did you drain and fills. You can even upgrade the pan while your at it to the one that is finned for better cooling of the oil. I believe it has a higher capacity too.
Yeah but the Greddy pan is Cast so if it gets hit you are in big trouble. Personally I think the stock pan is fine and you could tap it just as easy. I just decided to get temps at the oil feed line to my single cooler. Or do you mean a pan like this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/5338252210/
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 01-08-2011 at 10:59 PM.
