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9krpmrx8 10-29-2010 05:18 PM

Oil temp, coolant temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, housing temp, etc.
 
Okay so I have been thinking lately (trying not to hurt myself). I want to get your thoughts on the best place to monitor various types of data such as oil temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc.

Oil temp. Very important on a rotary engine. I have converted to a single Fluidyne oil cooler and I measure oil temps at the oil filter return. So for instance, this morning, after a full warm up, my average oil temps were about 175-180F cruising to work. I can get them to 215F during a canyon run. So, if I am at 215F on the return line after my very efficient 28" Fluidyne cooler, what is the temperature of the oil going into the cooler?

This got me thinking about something Dannobre told me. He measures oil temps at the oil pan. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. The oil in the pan should be about as hot as it is going to get outside of the rotors themselves right? So, I am thinking of getting a Greddy pan or tapping the OEM pan and having a bung welded in.

Oil pressure Some may argue it's not that important to monitor regularly. I measure at the same adapter at the oil filter. I am thinking it should be measured at the same place the factory service manual test oil pressure at. So I am thinking if getting a "T" that will hold both the factory oil pressure sending unit and the oil pressure gauge sending unit. Is this the best spot? Does it matter, or is oil pressure the same as long as you are in the path of oil? I also have the Mazmart oil pressure mod and I was seeing a bit of increased pressure before that just with the single oil cooler conversion.

Fuel pressure Very important. I monitor this at the Aeromotive adapter installed on the factory fuel rail feed line. I think that is about as good as it gets.

Coolant Temp Pretty important to have a gauge with an alarm because the factory gauge is useless. I am monitored through the ECU via the stock location. I think that is a s good as it gets.

EGT/Cat temp. A must for FI guys. I monitor through the ECU. Is the cat temp even the same as having a bung for an EGT sensor?

Voltage. Not necessary unless you are having electrical issues. I monitor through ECU. I think that is as good as it gets.

AF Ratio Very important if you are FI or if you tune at all. I monitor through the ECU. Is having an aftermarket bung, wide band O2, and controller better than what data we get from the ECU? I don't think so, from what I have read the factory wide band is pretty good.

Boost. If you are FI, this is a given. Location will vary depending on setup.

Cylinder head temp. I recently looked at a sensor for this that you slip over the spark plug end before installation. This has been used on piston engines forever but would watching the housing temps tell us anything? Having experienced heat soak after a day of driving I am thinking this would help me to avoid this.

Nitrous pressure. Obviously if you spray this is important. I monitor at the ZEX NMU and I will be installing a liquid filled gauge on the bottle as well.

Shift Light. Good idea, used by many track guys. A company called raptor makes a small subtle one. I may look into this.

Transmission Temp. If I had a modified auto i would have this gauge for sure. Where is the best place to get this data?

Hour Meter. For tracking maintenence. Thsi is used on race cars and off road vehicle rather than going by mileage. This would be for the OCD people like me :)



Please feel free to chime with your thoughts on the subject. I did this real quick so if I missed anything let me know.

paulmasoner 10-29-2010 05:35 PM

cat temp as reported by the CANbus is signifigantly less than egt up at the ports/mani. but itis also useless if you already have a proper tune, and ultimately not needed for tuning.

Brettus 10-29-2010 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 3766663)
AF Ratio Very important if you are FI or if you tune at all. I monitor through the ECU. Is having an aftermarket bung, wide band O2, and controller better than what data we get from the ECU? I don't think so, from what I have read the factory wide band is pretty good.

.

A stand alone wideband is a must for FI IMO . The stock wideband only goes down to 11.1 which is pretty close to where you want to be running . So If you are relying on stock obd reading you could be sitting on 11.1 or 9.0 and be none the wiser .
Also very important to have the guage available at all times so you can see what is happening if something strange happens .
It is also essential to have the ability to log your afr so you can fine tune . Doing that off a guage would be next to impossible.
Also - unless you get a high quality aftermarket WB sensor they can be prone to failure at high temp so it's a good idea to place it downstream a ways .

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 3766663)
Boost. If you are FI, this is a given. Location will vary depending on setup. .

For normal running the vfad outlet nipple is the place to hook into .
However for testing purposes it is worth hooking it up before the throttle plate and monitoring part throttle .
Also worth looking at boost just after the turbo especially if you are pushing things as you can determine how much you lose over your system.


BTW ... Good idea for the thread 9k

nycgps 10-29-2010 06:17 PM

You can monitor all kinds of stuff with defi gauges, location wise I think it's ok at whatever aftermarket company sells. Defi gauges, either standalone or central computer type, can set warning beep, record peak value, set to record every or any one's value(good for tuning)

I am thinking you are still thinking too much about the temps...

DocBeech 10-29-2010 06:38 PM

Voltage can be important if you are running a standalone battery. When I ran the track in California we would run the engine with no other accessories. We would power the engine with a deep cycle battery. In this case voltage was important to make sure you didn’t die on the track.

Monitoring internal engine temps isn't critical if you have a good coolant and oil temp system.

I would personnelly run a custom boost and AF sensor. For the simple reason that the ones in the car are not set up for monitoring an FI system and don't always read high enough.

9krpmrx8 10-29-2010 10:10 PM

Thanks guys, good input. I have just been reading a couple of books lately and it has me understanding (or confusing me) the engine better. I mean, like I said if my oil temps are post cooler, so I think oil temps are pretty high inside the engine.

I have been looking at different Wide band options and data logging options and Innovate makes some great stuff too.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/kits.php

NYCGPS, I might be thinking too much but it's fun :)

9krpmrx8 10-30-2010 09:03 AM

Oh, and of course PLX makes some interesting things as well.

http://www.plxdevices.com/

TeamRX8 10-30-2010 04:09 PM


I did this real quick so if I missed anything let me know.
Did you forget to take your meds again or is this as good as it gets? :)



.

9krpmrx8 10-30-2010 08:42 PM


Originally Posted by TeamRX8 (Post 3767222)
Did you forget to take your meds again or is this as good as it gets? :)



.

It was late in the day, My Ritalin was wearing off :lol:

DocBeech 10-30-2010 08:43 PM

do you sniff it regularly or only on week days:P

9krpmrx8 11-01-2010 10:04 AM

What are your thoughts on using the cylinder head temp sensor to measure housing temperatures?

DarkBrew 11-01-2010 11:28 AM

What sort of oil temp difference is likely between the oil filter location and the oil pan when fully warmed up?

9krpmrx8 11-01-2010 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by DarkBrew (Post 3768358)
What sort of oil temp difference is likely between the oil filter location and the oil pan when fully warmed up?

That is something i wonder as well. I am not sure if Dannobre has any before and after data with his setup but it would be interesting to see. I have a bit of data from different times of the year so when I do it I should be able to see the difference.

hoss -05 11-01-2010 11:52 AM

I also think the best place to take your oil temps is at the pan.

olddragger 11-01-2010 12:29 PM

fuel pressure variences are also starting to show its ugle little head. The benefit of a return system is becoming more of a desired item.
A dash system is also becoming more attractive--- you cant watch all those damn gauges all the time.
So on my line of sight there will be 3 gauges---coolant temp, fuel pressure, intake charge temps. Out of line of sight will be oil temp, a/f, boost /vacuum. Thats my goal.
My oil temp will be at the pan, my coolant temp is on the top radiator hose --not the heater hose. My intake charge temps is from the LIM. so is my boost/vac.
OD

9krpmrx8 11-01-2010 01:25 PM

So if your intake charge temp is high then you know your motor is getting heat soaked right?

olddragger 11-01-2010 02:52 PM

Well actually several things.
1- for us FI guys we can tell if the intercooler is working well or not
2- if your w/m spray is doing any good
3- heat soak---(if your cai is really working:)

I think if more people would actually look at charge heat temps they would really find things that can make a difference.
Recently one of out members had a lost of power issue that was finally found due to his charge temps being higher than what they should have been. He found some leaky stuff that was allow the intake to pull in hot under hood air. Now us FI guys do the same --just further down the intake and usually after the maf with yet another sensor.
Havent you ever wondered also if both rotors get the same air charge? Temp and volumne?
hehehe

DocBeech 11-01-2010 05:07 PM

you could install a fuel cooling system. They are fairly cheap, and easy to install. They can drop engine temp a little bit. Basically it keeps the fuel lines away from the engine and keeps the fuel cooler until its used. Fuel heats up in the lines while it waits to enter the engine.

9krpmrx8 11-01-2010 05:36 PM

I know many will doubt me but when I did this it did drop my intake temps quite a bit unfortunately none of my logs show it because I was not logging intake temps but my temp are very close to ambient at cruise which was never the case before. I have yet to see if it is effective in a high heat situation though.

basically I took the factory intake tube (no VFAD) out of a 2010 6 port Auto because it is of a greater diameter that the VFAD one and just ran generic intake tubing from autozone down to the front opening.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/4983967184/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/4983967184/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/9krpmrx8/, on Flickr

9krpmrx8 12-13-2010 10:40 AM

Does anyone have any tips on where to have this mounted in the pan? The actual sensor I mean not the box :lol:

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/s...emp_sensor.png


Oh, and since I am installing the Racing beat lines on the car this sensor is going in, what are your thoughts on getting a fitting that has a NPT port in it that will go between the feed port at the oil pump and the oil line to the cooler? I know they make fitting like this, I have one similar on my nitrous line to facilitate my nitrous pressure gauge. But I cannot find one online, I will have to hit up the local fitting shop.

9krpmrx8 01-08-2011 10:41 PM

In case you didn't see my Odula thread. I think this is a great item. Hopefully you could source it from a fitting supplier locally. You could also install this on the Feed side as well.

http://www.odula.com/img/img_100708up/img_100708up1.jpg

DocBeech 01-08-2011 10:49 PM

if you get the right size sensor you can just mount it in place of the drain plug. You would just need to be extra careful not to damage it when you did you drain and fills. You can even upgrade the pan while your at it to the one that is finned for better cooling of the oil. I believe it has a higher capacity too.

9krpmrx8 01-08-2011 10:56 PM


Originally Posted by DocBeech (Post 3842137)
if you get the right size sensor you can just mount it in place of the drain plug. You would just need to be extra careful not to damage it when you did you drain and fills. You can even upgrade the pan while your at it to the one that is finned for better cooling of the oil. I believe it has a higher capacity too.


Yeah but the Greddy pan is Cast so if it gets hit you are in big trouble. Personally I think the stock pan is fine and you could tap it just as easy. I just decided to get temps at the oil feed line to my single cooler. Or do you mean a pan like this ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/5338252210/

nycgps 01-09-2011 12:54 AM


Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 3842142)
Yeah but the Greddy pan is Cast so if it gets hit you are in big trouble. Personally I think the stock pan is fine and you could tap it just as easy. I just decided to get temps at the oil feed line to my single cooler. Or do you mean a pan like this ;)

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5284...b4c03e0aae.jpg

this is also the reason why I got the pan for so damn long but never install it ...

hoss -05 01-09-2011 02:20 AM

Hey that is one nice looking oil pan 9k... wonder what it looks like installed. :P


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