Senseny

I guess this question is for you gentlemen and ladies that want your 8 to be fast and have no warranty worries and a few bucks laying around. Because aftermarket development seems a bit slow for the Renesis and not as promising as we would all like, has anyone considered swapping a 13B-REW (third gen Rx7's powerplant) into the 8. Preferred trim would be a single turbo, eliminating the rats nest and many of the problems associated with it. This is a proven platform for making power and could certainly motivate the 8 well and wouldn't change the weight (power/ weight and front/rear) dynamics very much. Of course, I never condone swaps that involve making a RX car piston powered, but hey this keeps it in the family.
I realize a new trans would be needed and probably motor mounts and the like would need fabrication--but all that is doable. With the air box changed to an open filter and a battery relocation it looks as though a mid size intercooler would be able to fitted.
What does everyone think, obviously this would be expensive--but I actually think it would be more practical than a 20B.
BTW, I need my car for a daily driver and I value the warranty--so this isn't something I will do, but I was interested in your thoughts.

shelleys_man_06

JIC swapped out the RENESIS for the 13B-REW in their D1 car I think.

I think it would be a neat idea, and a fun project to swap any engine into any car. If I were to swap for the 13B-REW, I would get a beefy TII tranny to back it up.

I wonder if anyone ever considered a V8 swap, like a DOHC Cobra engine swap, or an LS1/LS6.

quack_p

Or you could just get an RX-7.

mysql101

If this is a modest proposal, I'd hate to see what you'd consider extreme

nt5k

Just buy an Elise.. Much cheaper.

Senseny

Quack, I laughed, but obviously there are still reasons to keep the 8 and do a swap, and a few of these reasons would also apply to the Elise. These would be a newer, more sophisticated chassis, interior quality and 4 usable seats.
Really radical IMO would be 20B turbo or a big V8. That would require tons more fabrication, upgrades and time.
My modest proposal would be big, but not as big as Swift's certainly. I would compare the scale of Swift's proposal to the 20B or V8--which is why my hat is off to Acosta.

wakeech

a 350 chevy would be easier than a lot of the other things your'e thinking about.

Senseny

What does a V8 (350) do to the weight distribution? That is the biggest reason I suggested another rotary. I wouldn't want to change the cars handling characteristics that much.

Rxdriftingaction

dude . 13b turbo is a good idea. and u probably like to sell ur renesis to some guys like fb. they will love to have that engine in their car. (and u can save some money) a rebuild 13b is not expensive. but i think this songs a little bit stupid. y don't u just buy a FD instead. that's much cheaper. lighter, faster. and it has much more race car stying than 8. by the way. after those day i finally realize 8 is not a car for "speed". at least it's not a race car. Don't push too hard on ur 8. or u might lost the reason u bought it.(maybe not. but I think if i mod crazliy on my 8. I probably will lost the reason i bought it.- for daliy life driving. hang out some friends and. a safer car(8 airbag)) nvm guys. just my IMO.

rotten42

a 350 chevy motor in an RX8?...may god strike you down in your footsteps!!!


....turn in your keys sinner. :D


may the rotary be with you...

shelleys_man_06

I'm insane. I was thinking about a V8 swap for a week or two. My sights are still set on a GT35R-powered 13B-MSP.

Senseny

Rxdriftingaction, your reasons for not doing the swap are actually the reasons that I would consider doing the swap. You would have a safer car, with a newer, more sophisticated chassis, 4 seats, a car that hasn't been thrashed (as many FD's have been) and all the capabilities for speed that many of us crave. If the tuning potential for the Renesis gets tapped better in the coming years, my point will be moot. But if the Renesis does not take to large HP gains then this kind of swap could be very viable. BTW, I do have an 1993 Rx7 R-1, and if I could get the Rx8 to even be as fast as the 7 was stock (and maintain some relaiblity) then I would get rid of the 7.

quack_p

V8?

rotarygod

The Renesis engine itself isn't an issue. It's the electronics and the fuel system. What would be a better option if you are willing to scrap the emissions legality would be to replace the ecu with a Haltech unit. Then fab up a return line for the fuel system and use a more conventional approach to it. Add a turbo or a supercharger to it and you'll get what you want.

Another option is to still do this but leave the electronics of the factory ecu hooked up in some areas and fooled in others to believe it still has control. As long as it thinks it is working it won't sent a cel. Since modern inspection testing just plugs into the OBDII port and checks for errors, as long as they don't detect any, you pass. The 3rd generation had certain sensors that when removed sent the ecu some strange signals and the car wouldn't run right. Simple resistors in some spots took care of this and the ecu didn't know any better. Other places had incorporate a device similar to an O2 simulator to account for a range of signals. There are so many smart electronics based people here that I'm surprised that no one has tried this yet. Someone just needs to build a little black box that plugs into the factory ecu and makes it think everything is OK even though the car is really controlled by another ecu. Someone get to work!

shelleys_man_06

I'm more into the hydraulic approach (plumbing a return line). Paul Yaw did it to his RENESIS, and I'm convinced I can do the same.





Why a Haltech? Why not another EMS like AEM, Electromotive, or Motec? I figured they have similar functions, with different kinds of flexibility.

BTW, the webpage has been updated.

www.yawpower.com

rotarygod

I saw his update already. He always has good info.

You can use whatever ecu you want. The Haltech was just an example.

Look closer, I mentioned the return line. That's twice in 2 threads you've missed that and it was the same comment in both!

shaolin

I think it's illegal (in most places) to swap an engine from an older car to a newer chassis.

rotarygod

Leave the engine cover on!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

If I were to do any serious engine swap I would be looking at using a 2JZ. Since they are capable of some serious power levels, it would be hard not to consider it. On the other hand, the rotary 1.3L moves as much air per revolution as a 2.6L. With equal levels of boost the 2JZ, RB26, and 13B are all pretty close in terms of potential.

Of course, I could be wrong...

Charles

slavearm

In the new issue of RX-Tuner, someone is running 700hp on 32PSI for race in a 13B-rew and running 25PSI for street use... that's pretty damn potent if you ask me.

Slavearm

shelleys_man_06

Anyone remember SP Engineering's Supra-7?

http://www.sp-power.com/media_turbomag_1201.htm

PoorCollegeKid

An LS1/6/2 would be about an extra 150lbs over your front axle. The good news is that these engines have a markedly better power:weight ratio than the Renesis does, and they're also fairly compact and so should probably physically fit in the engine bay. The bad news is, almost all of this extra 150lbs goes over your front wheels, making the new weight bias 52:48 f:r and, since the engine is longer than the Renesis its effects on the car's yaw moment of inertia would be profound. The heavier tranny (I'm assuming, since I don't have any hard numbers on the T56 or the RX8's tranny) would also mess with the '8's balance, but the heavier rear differential would help balance this out somewhat. You'd probably end up with a 3250-3300lb car with a 52:48 f:r weight distribution, which isn't all that bad compared to most other cars out there. In fact, that's just a little bit heavier than the heaviest 350Zs with better weight distribution and a lot more power, so it would still be quite a performer even if it isn't as balanced as the stock RX8 is.

Taking all of these advantages and disadvantages in to account, you'd still outrun a Renesis powered RX8 on most tracks (auto-x and very short, twisty tracks would not be your hybrid's forte) for the time being. You'd have 120-150rwhp on them stock if you used the weakest of the LS-series engines and you'd also have the SBC's massive tuning potential to work with. I think it'd be a cool project if someone decided to invest in a V8 powered RX8, but it definitely wouldn't give you the best bang-for-your-buck if that's what you're looking for.

davefzr

Hey Man.. Do you.. or anyone for that matter, know if someone contacted Paul about engine modifications that can be done. It seems like his site is full of different modifications that can be made to the engine and provide dyno testing to boot...

I didnt know that this was even available.... Porting... Balancing... Resurfacing...

If this is available and will provide significant performance advantages, how come we have not heard about this on the RX8Club site at all?

Maybe I have missed it.. Dont know.. Has anyone done this on this site?

rotarygod

He doesn't only do RX-8's. He's done this to rotaries for years.

davefzr

Yeah I understand that.. If you were talking to me...

But has anyone done this? It seems to be that this would be a great way of making some nice power for less than the cost of purchasing a 7,000 dollar turbo.. no?