Right after the R-flash...lol

 

so... after the O, P, Q-flash huh? lolz

 

Does this mean that Racing Beat has to start over on their flash? Or maybe this N flash is Racing Beat's design...

 

I'm still waiting for these dyno results to see some hard data points.

It seems there are a couple of possible theories:

1) N flash really does add power or makes the power more usable. (Hence, the dyno result would be an interesting data point.)

2) Not all RX-8's are created equal. Depending on how your car drove previously, the N flash could have made a difference or not. Maybe the N flash fixes enough things with the engine mappings so those with weaker engines feel a difference. Those who had strong ones right out of the box felt no change.

Just a wild a$$ guess on my part, no hard data points here. But it always seemed odd how the mpg figures and hp dyno figures have had such a wide range of results for different cars/drivers.

3) The car's driver adaptive computer is behind it all. The folks who said the Hertz Rental RX-8s felt faster adds to this theory. Most people drive the hell out of a rental, so the computer would have learned that kind of aggressive driving style.

For those who always drive like they're out to win the Monaco F1 GP, then maybe there's no difference. But for those who are only weekend warriors at best, then maybe the initial setting of the N flash is more aggressive than what one is used to.

-

In my case, I'm at M, but I always felt the car had strong power. I've never had a power loss at 6000, in fact just the opposite. The power builds smoothly, getting strong after 3K rpms and then at 7K rpms there's a real kick in power that knocks my head into the seat. When I went from L to M, the 7K rpm power kick was gone. But after the computer re-learned my driving style again, the 7K power kick was back.

I'm very happy with my car just the way it is. As they say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". (But if Frank's dyno result jumps from 188hp to 200+ hp, then maybe I will just have to get that N flash.)

 

Got back from the dealer and here is my part no. A4432H N3H4-18-881A AT N3H6-18-881A MT what do you guys think? is it the "N" flash or not. My dealer insisted that they had the latest flash from Mazda but I can't tell.

 

I've looked at the differences through canscan between M and N. I posted this on page 7, post #101. There is your hard data. No more power at FULL throttle. Part throttle is different.

 

Well I have an appointment this wed for the flash. Good dealer(he has updated me from L to K to M with no hassles but he says this flash is differant. Not a 30min job this time .Says he has to do it in stages. Will take 1 1/2 hr to do.
I'm not sure about that, but if I bring them doughnuts they let me stay in back close to the car!
Ill report. Nem I ll let you know about how stage 2 reacts with it on Sunday(the only time I have to play)
olddragger

 

Thanks - I'm having trouble with my CZ. I think I will send it to Maurice and upgrade it to gold version this week.

 

my dealer told me that it takes more than an hour too. Other people around here said it took them 10min max! whats going on ?!
I have an appointment on thursday. can u please give me more details when you are done on wednesday? thanks

 

It took me about 25 min. this morning. And yes, I noticed more power under the curve in the lower RPM range. The exhaust does sound different, too, and it started up immediately when I turned the key (used to have multiple-crank starts).

I don't even think I was on "M" before...the dealer said I was when I bought the car last July, but I think they lied.

 

Ill get back to all approx thursday with my experience.
CZ trouble, could it be studdering under light load/partial throttle between 3.5/4.5k?
olddragger

 

i also have n flash although i don't notice any difference really. hertz really has rental rx-8's? that be pretty crazy.

 

I for one hope they don't. It won't help resale values...

 

Hmmm, yes the bump in power in the lower rev bands was a feature of "M", but the trade off was a slightly less power kick above 7K rpms.

I wonder if the other folks who think they're getting more umph in the lower rev ranges with "N" are truly coming from "M". If they were coming from "L" or lower, they basically would be experiencing the effects of "M" now, but think it's due to "N". Just another theory...

 

I had my dealer perform MSP-04 on my 8 today. I did not notice any significant power increase. Maybe a bit more responsiveness at low RPMs and light throttle but that could be a placebo effect from reading this thread.

However, I did notice the exhaust tone is different as several posters above have noticed. I now have a low pitched drone at light throttle around 3300-3500 RPMs. It almost sounds a resonance coming from under the car (not from the engine area). The sound at WOT and high RPMS is unchanged.

I originally thought the the folks who noticed the different exhaust sound were imagining it. After all, why would a slight difference in the fuel/air ratio make the exhaust sound different? Well, all I can say is that my car is making a sound unlike any its made before so if the others are imagining it, so am I.

Anyone care to provide a technical explanation of how a fuel/air map change could change the exhaust sound? Gas velocity or temperature? Less gas burning in the cat? Deluded driver?

 

Thank you Charles. I did read your previous explanation but forgot it.

But according to Rotarygod's data (post #101), at light loads/low RPMs, the difference in the N flash is the increase in timing advance and the mixture is a bit richer. So if I understand RG's post, its more of a timing advance than a mixture change. Does more advanced timing change the exhaust tone also?

So, (just trying to understand the engineering here), leaner mixtures will burn faster. Does this mean the temperature and pressure in the combustion chamber is higher and thus the pressure pulse of the exhaust has a higher peak resulting in a different sound? Or is the effect due to the fact the a faster burn means that less burning is happening after the exhaust port is open. I would assume that advancing the timing is equivalent in effect to a faster burn since it is starting earlier relative to port opening/closing?

Thanks again Charles for your insights. I'll take power and economy over a mellow exhaust tone any day.

 

I thought i would post my data log from a CanScan after having the N-flash done.
Now my car is an AT and most of you may have the MT but it seems that the results are similar between the two. The data file is a .pdf file and I have highlighted the AFR's . I logged from @2000rpm to @7300rpm, and even tho the log file doesnt go WOT til about 2600rpm that was due to me driving and playing computer geek to start the log (my apologies), but i believe the AFR's would be the same from 2000rpm to 2600rpm if i was at WOT. Anyway in the low rpm range from 2000 to 4900 the AFR's are almost perfect then go rich above that to redline. with a bit a adjusting in the higher rpm's to the AFR's in the cz unit we should have an almost perfect AFR across the board. I went from the M-Flash to N-Flash , not some earlier flash, and the difference is noticeable. Anyway i hope i haven't assumed too much. Happy tuning.

 

if that is what you got then they did not give you the N flash the N flash part numbers would be N3Z1-18-881A for AT and N3Z2-18-881A for MT . the H4 and H6 is the old file numbering and stopped with the M flash.

 

They should just let us flash this ourselves and be done with it. Give us the file and we will get the new Harrison CANScan to do it with.

"UPDATE 1-4-2004 - We have received many questions about the Passthrough Programming capability which will be available on the CANScan-USB. The SAE-J2534 is a specification for a software/hardware interface which has the capability for reprogramming or reflashing vehicle PCM's. The software component is a "dll" or dynamic linked libary, which is a special form of a Windows program used in this case as the reprogramming interface to a Windows application. Some automakers have made available, for a very reasonable cost, the Windows application which interfaces with the J2534 dll. By using the manufactures application and our dll and hardware you can reprogram the PCM's using files supplied by the manufacturer.
What you will need to reflash a ECU: In addition to the CANScan-USB and J2534 software, you need a programming voltage supply and a programming cable, both of which we will sell. The programming voltage supply will require either 2 or 3 solder connections to the CANScan PCB depending on the power supply used. You will also need a Windows application which communicates with the J2534 dll and the ECU Flash file. Both of those items are available from some auto manufactures web sites for less than $30.00. See www.mazdatechinfo.com/home/ecmDetail.asp for an example."

 

Thanks zoom44, I guess it is back to the dealer. I waited a few weeks and used the Mazda letter we got a few months ago to get the PCM flashed and still I get an old version.

 

print out the tsb. page 4 or 5 has the newest part number and file number on it. show them the discrepancy between that and what they put on your paperwork

 

I showed them the TSB and was assured buy them it would be the latest. When the work was done I had the TSB in hand and compared it to the part noon the work order. I knew something was wrong. Thanks again zoom44.

 

I had my 8 in the the dealership yesterday for the most current N flash. I do feel that the car has more power in the middle to low RPM range with the Butt Dyno.

I had a good dealer experience.....not only did they reflash my PCM but the installed 4 new spark plugs (new hot type leading) This is what the work order states for Job#1 section:
"Performed TSB#01-004/05 for No Start/Flood Start. Peformed PCM calibration update, Reset eccentric shaft profile memory, Replaced all 4 spark plugs (new Hot Type Leading). Checked oil level and condition. Checked for air pockets in MOP Oil Lines (OK)"

I questioned the service manager about the WBS setting. He says that they are using the most current and the Mazda sends them a CD every month with updates for PCM Flashes.

Also it appears that these new plugs have some ridges on the bottom to help flare out the ignition spark some.

 

well guys
Got the N flash yesterday evening and --------yep-------there is a gain in the lower rpms so . pulls stronger in the higher gears. Start off(i even have a light flywheel) is noticably easier. Butt dyno says yes more power --at over 5 k I dont know --maybe some maybe not but the lilttle hesatation at 7k or so is gone. exhaust note did change. Buts heres the proof for me. See, I have a Racing Beat cat back. when I put my cz with the stage 2 map on the car the rb tips get a distinctive bronze color, when i take the cz out (and clean the tips) the tips stay a stainless steel/chrome color. Well without the cz the tips now have changed from the stainless steel color to the bronze color. (exhaust probaly hotter leaner a/f's). Dont need a dyno i know its working.
Now i will play with the cz stage 2 map on Sunday and see what happens.
olddragger

 

Amazing - can't wait to hear your results - thanks.