ASH8

And what is a lot a guages going to help you do?..

Oh gee my oil is getting Hot, so what will you do about it, make you panic or increase your heart rate?..

The guages are not going to do anything for you..looks pretty though.

If you have not done so I would be opening up the back of my oil cooler shields, I guess you have two oil coolers?

I sure wish more oil came out during regular oil changes. HUH..more of what ?? oil I guess....well are you topping off your oil regularly??

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Quite interesting, Sir. Thx.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The "foaming" issue Fred references is probaly from the rotor fins slamming the oil as it is sprayed fron the interior radius.

Looks like you HAVE been listening to me, after all.

Damn, Son, learn to self-edit or get used to hearing the term "bloviate".

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

More of the old oil. With a Sohn OMP Adapter our oil levels in the oil pan do not diminish and there is certainly much left in the coolers. On the other hand, I have never concerned myself with THAT particular matter and my engine sounds as smooth as a Pontiac 455 Super-Duty during cold-starts.

DAMN, ASH, you are a sarcastic ****.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yes I top off my oil at every fill-up and I wish all the oil came out when I did an oil change so there was less dirty oil in my engine.

I will be modifying my fender liners behind the oil coolers as well.

I want the gauges so that I can know if my oil is up to temp prior to driving off.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

now i'm convinced you didn't read the article .
The temp gauge will tell you when the oil is hot enough so that you know you wont be wearing out the engine by getting on the throttle too soon .
The pressure gauge so that you can see that you have optimum viscosity .

The overiding point in the article is that most of the damage is done before the oil gets up to optimum temperature . You totally missed that by the sound of it .

ASH8

How much money are you going to spend on Guages??..

Do you really believe that the guages are going to tell you that your oil is "degraded", or if you are running the correct viscosity?

So what are you going to do when you read your oil temps have gone up...stop and wait until it cools down?

Yeah, drive you car easy when cold, oil will take a little longer, go outside and touch your oil coolers, that will tell you how hot your oil is at first start up.
In my car it takes about 10 minutes of driving before I can't touch coolers for very long..

I think you are READING too much into the info in this thread.

Yes, oil temps are an issue, but why is it that Mazda Japan still only installs ONE oil cooler in the 09 RX-8 Auto's for New Zealand and Australia??

Ash

ASH8

Read above....

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

oh ash, enjoy...

5w-20 racing oil http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/xp1.html

and their own famous 0w qualifying oil http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/xp0.html


that is what a real "race" oil is all about

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Much of what ASH is saying comes close to what I shared with Flashwing last night; although Dr. Haas is sharing some seemingly good information, and Flash is diligently studying the issue of fluids on behalf of BHR, what will happen (as usually does in matter technical) is that when one learns all about this stuff they will come full circle and realize that it really isn't rocket science here.

Be realistic about the demands you think you are placing on your engine, select the proper viscosity for your engine, do not hammer the engine for a few minutes after initial start-up, and enjoy yourself.

This concern over the hot-temp stuff has already been evaluated by Mazda and the manner in which they advise the proper oil in the manual takes all this into account.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I personally know the guys who build those engines and that oil has NOTHING to do with what the average Renesis owner is going to encounter. I was getting my 0W30 oil for free from them, too.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

If you had digested the info in the article you would have noted that one of the keys to knowing if your viscosity is correct is oil pressure . Too high viscosity leads to higher pressure and lower flow . For engine life you want the best compromise beteen flow and pressure . While we really don't know what that is for the renesis I'm willing to go with someone that knows a **** load more about it than you or I .


No I'm not really too worried about maximum temps as much as making sure the oil is warm enough before i get on the gas .
With a turbo car these things are even more important so the extra expense should be worth it so long as you know what to do with the information you are getting ....

ASH8

HOORAY..Charles!!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

IMO, if we combine what Dr. Haas has discussed along with what the OEMs tend to suggest we will be fully-informed on this whole thing. Some may see Haas's article as contrary to what the owner's manuals tend to state but I see it as just another perspective which validates that which we are told by Mazda.

Spin9k

There's a simple solution for what you desire. Jack up the car high on the driver's side front, then drain and you'll be amazed how much oil is left...just about none. Then fill to full and count the quarts you add.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

it was just to kill the myth that race teams use uber thick oil...

in reality they use light straight weight oils with no detergents, no multigrade viscosity modifiers... basically not anything thats not needed in the next 5 hours since the additive packages are always the first to fail due to heat and not the oil.

ASH8

OH my God....REALLY

Wait bloody 10-15 minutes before you plant your foot...your oil is warm/hot then.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Thank you, Sir. I am just the resident knuckle-dragger trying to keep it simple around here.

Besides, if my engine (after I rebuilt it) can handle 9,500 RPMs under full-load for a solid 15 minutes while stuck in the snow back in MI, along with the lack-luster way in which I maintain it, then the Renesis is a pretty solid engine (a few concerns aside) and nobody need worry.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

fair enough - I might be getting a bit carried away on the whole guage thing .

However I still think you need to read the article again - and actually take it in this time LOL

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Justin, this is a perfect example of what BHR is trying to tell people; "race" fluids are quite specific in their applications, with regard to both viscosity and additive packages, and they don't necessarily translate well to a daily-driven/street car. The reason race teams use 0-weight oils is because they can tighten up engine clearances, they want to reduce parasitic losses, and they have a MUCH more stringent maintenence schedule than do street-cars. In a racecar, every bit of power counts. In a street car, every mile/dollar counts.

I can tell all of you that designing parts for racing uses is FAR easier than designing parts for performance/street use.

PhillipM

Yep, they don't have to take all the road salt and ***** thrown at them for one, combined with 8000000000miles with no maintanance, a half the people complaining 'cause the part makes their car noisier/ride rougher/give more vibrations....

Can you guess I have to do parts for both?


Anyhow, as a person that does have calibrated gauges, and puts some serious heat into the engine/oil (we're now having to run an oil cooler designed originally for a 500bhp truck...) , I can tell you that a even a 30 weight oil will pop the pressure relief spring from 6krpm upwards, even with the oil so hot that you can burn your hand on the oil cooler, which is more than enough to keep proper flow through the bearings.

Like I say, I'll try a 20w and see what difference it makes next, and report back, but as Charles mentions, my results are under full race conditions, so apply them to road cars with a pinch of salt....

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Don't get me started, Phillip. My Arizona "homies" give me a hard time since I am the only one with rust on his car around here.
Where the Hell did I leave my beer............?

PhillipM

Great fun, ain't it?

I made a bloke a lightweight flywheel for one of those new V10 M5's not too long ago, all I ever got was earache about how easy it was to stall, and how much noise the multi-plate clutch made, and how I'd made it snatchy setting off, and it was jerky at traffic lights....

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Seriously, I have coined a new phrase; "Gamma-testing". It involves cutting our products loose to the market and bracing ourselves for the inquiries and unforeseen issues that may come up. We know the product works....... but will our customers understand it? If not, what will happen, what do we do, and what do we tell them?

PhillipM

No, no, no, no, no.


Release product - go on holiday for 2 months whilst they sort it out amongst themselves - come back and tell them they've all got it wrong and it should be like this, in a single, group e-mail.

Sorted.




Actually, we had one of those 'unforeseen issues' last month, albeit not with customer parts - but what with the subject of how much cooling the oil does in these engines coming up earlier, well, here's how much it does:

Start rally stage, slog car up 1 mile gravel incline,suddenly get warning light on dash telling us the oil cooler fan has failed.
Oil pressure fine, oil temperature creeping upwards, bollocks to it, keep going.
5 miles later, finish stage with oil temperature at around 130*C on the gauges - open bonnet, get blasted by a wave of pure heat, and notice that the heat off the block was so much that the alternator housing and terminal had melted, the aux. belt had bubbles in it, and the coils had stuck to the heatsink plates.....hmmm, bit warm then....woops....