Bootleg

ended up being a lean code. had nothing to do with the fuel. mechanic said that someone who didn't have a clue what they were doing had been screwing around in the ECU trying to reset it and left something unplugged......

they fixed that and ordered me a new taillight.

WpgDSMer

OK, just about to order my stuff from my Amsoil guy, and I came across this premix...

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ait.aspx

Doesn't this sound like exactly what we need? I don't see any mention of it in this thread. Can anyone see a reason why this wouldn't be good?
It's synthetic and not TCW3. It doesn't come in the nice 3.5oz bottles, but if nobody comes up with any other issue with this stuff, I think I'm going to go with it instead of the Saber Professional (link for reference)

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx

I was going to use just the 3.5 oz Saber bottle per fill, but I think I may use the .5oz / gal of the Interceptor (approx 5oz per fill) since it seems to be both oil and cleaner.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

saber pro is the better choice. The interceptor is formulated for direct injection engines, not engines with oil injection. I thought the same thing initially but oils formulated for direct injection are thinner because of the high pressure in the fuel lines as compared to port injection engines.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

The Amsoil Interceptor isn't the best option:

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/hpi.aspx

The HP Injector series is better because it is meant for oil injection systems. I've been running it in my 8 for a little now (3 fills ups) inbetween my supply of Idemitsu, which I just got yesterday

WpgDSMer

Why would a thinner oil be an issue if we're using it in addition to the stock oiler? It also says that it is good for carbureted and EFI applications, so my thinking is it's still ok.

There is also this one...
Dominator
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/tdr.aspx

Someone had stated earlier that the 'racing' mix might have additives that would be bad for the CAT. I don't think most of the applications they list need to worry about CATs, so that might be an issue with any pre-mix, but I'm not sold that this one would be better than the Saber.

Still waffling between the Interceptor and the Saber, but leaning towards the Interceptor. "Provides exceptional SAE #4 cold temperature fluidity (-58°F pour point)." It's cold where I live

WpgDSMer

I thought the TCW3 grade pre-mixes were meant for outboards and had additives that might be bad to run in the rotaries?

Zephyrzone

Some board members and mods believe this to be the case. I take their advice and avoid TCW3 oil's. Many users have had great luck with Idemitsu, and it is now in stock at many online stores such as Mazdatrix. If you can't wait or don't want to use Idemitsu, go for a JASO certified synthetic oil- available at most cycle shops and, from what I hear, some home improvement stores.

My case of Idemitsu came in a few weeks ago and after two tanks I can tell you the engine runs very smooth.

I happen to be in Kyoto this week and have seen a few Idemitsu gas stations, I want to take a photo of one with an 8 filling up there but I think that's like finding a needle in a haystack. I have only seen one 8 so far and it wasn't filling up (rare, eh?).

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I believe that there are many similarities between the American and Japanese petroleum industries' quality organizations. JASO ratings may not necesarily be superior to API ratings so seeking a JASO rating may not be implicitly "better" than TCW3. I just read a big paper delineating all this but I'd have to find it and re-read it to remind myself of the details. I have been using TCW3 for 10K miles and have no issues and, after reading the paper I mentioned, I am not too worked up about it. I have switched to a far superior 2-stroke oil and I can talk about it once I have ascertained it to be a good oil. Nothing we've yet discussed on this forum.

I tend to think that JaxRX8 may have good info on this.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I've used the Dominator a fair bit without issue but it is very expensive here and so I reserve it for my track days ..... (No cat )

mac11

iTrader: (1)

+1

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

He was one of my resources when I was designing my radiators. Figure that one out.

Jax_RX8

Hope all is going well guys, been a while since I have posted as I have been quite busy lately.

Let me comment on a few of the latest posts in this thread if I might:

1. On the TCW versus JASO spec - oils spec'd for each can be quality 2-cycle oils. Sometimes a company does not want to certify on more than one spec and the TCW3 spec is becoming the prevailing spec for the US as boat applications seems to be the last sizable market for 2-cycle oils (most others are dwindling fast other than maybe snowmobiles).

Anyways, the main difference between TCW3 spec and JASO (FC/FD) specs is that the TCW3 spec is primarily designed for water cooled boat engines (generally cooler running) and JASO specs are for water cooled and air cooled engines (generally hotter running). This is why all things being equal, JASO certified oils are likely to provide better overall protection. That said, in order to provide that extra barrier protection JASO certified oils do, their formulators sometimes include ingredients that are not very cat friendly (ZDDP, etc)

As I have said before, for a car with a cat, I would stick with Idemitsu Rotary Premix, Amsoil Saber Pro as they are both JASO FC/FD - obtaining this level of protection with Ester-based oils instead of using cat killing additives for the protection.

TCW3 oils will provide good protection, but because the spec is a little easier to meet, it is sometimes hard to tell if is as good as a JASO oil. One good TCW3 I know of the Pennzoil Marine Synthetic - great oil as it is rated for air cooled engines as well. Other name-brand marine TCW3 oils would likely be close.

2. On Charles "new" 2-cycle, I suspect I know what he is referring to as there is a new, small company producing a series of bio-based lubricants based on HOBBS, that are showing extremely good wear numbers - even beyond Redline and Amsoil for both 2- and 4-cycle oils. Interesting stuff, but I have not tried yet. I will find the link attach later if anyone is interested.

3. On all the comments on which Amsoil 2-cycle to use - use Amsoil Saber Pro, which is the full synthetic one.

You do NOT want the injector one (this is for oil injection, not fuel), Dominator, etc. as you Saber Pro is designed to be used as a PREMIX and some of the others are not and are not as miscible with fuel.

Thats all for now - hope it helps.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Can we delete the last 30 pages of this thread and just keep the last post?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

We can use the Amsoil "injector one" if we are using external adapters can't we? I should also point out that I have no cat so that's probably why I had no issues with TCW3.

Jax, if you wanna throw a guess my way I'll tell you if you get it right. Thanks for the post, btw.

Zephyrzone

Why do you keep us in suspense? Just tell us already!

I guess it's more fun this way.

Jax_RX8

Charles - if you are referring to your eternal tank for your Sohn adapter, yes you could use one of the "Injector" oils, but they are really designed for oil injection systems (like snomobiles) that need a thinner oil to work properly. Since our OMP is designed to handle standard oil viscosities anyways, the "thicker" Saber Pro works great and provides better protection than the injector oils anyways.

See chart from link below and notice the performance for all the air cooled applications to the right and that Saber Pro is definitely the best performing there.

http://www.amsoil.com/products/twocycle/fab_four.aspx

The new oils that I mentioned in the previous post is "Renewable Lubricants, Inc". They make great, great 4-cycle oils - showing ultra low wear on some of the oil tests on BITOG. While I have not tried their 2-cycles, I have thought about it because of their 4-cycle oil success. Is this you secret trial oil? If nt, may be another one to try out

http://www.renewablelube.com/

swoope

iTrader: (5)

great info.

thx.

beers

tajabaho1

I went to mazdatrix and cut someone in their line of back order for the idemitsu premix got 4 quarts muhahahaa

went from 15mpg to 18

MacSav

Instead of FP60?

http://www.your-beauty-and-health.co...-additive.aspx

Ingredients:

Oronite OGA 273: Light Aromatic Solvent Naphtha; 1, 2, 4-Trimethylbenzene; 1-Methylethylbenzene, Exxsol D-80: Aliphatic Hydrocarbon, Oil Additive: Low Viscosity Petroleum Oil; Sweetened Middle Petroleum Oil; Halogenated Hydrocarbon Oil; Aliphatic Petroleum Oil; Corrosion Inhibitor; Aromatic Petroleum Naphtha


or their Gold oil conditioner?

http://www.timeforbetterhealth.com/P...lAdditive.html

Jax_RX8

This is essentially a Chlorinated Hydrocarbon product like Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO). Stick with MMO is you want a CH product as it is about 1/10th the cost.

Chlorinated Hydrocarbon additives are controversial because they are very lubricious, but can create Hydrochloric Acid under extreme heat (burning), which can cause corrosion of your engine if the product is not formulated correctly.

Linky below on one if the Chlorinated additves listed in the MSDS for this product

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene

As for FP/LC, LCD's primary ingredient is NOT a Chlorinated Hydrocarbon, so it is a very safe and effective product. If you are curious - the key ingredient is Cyclohexanone. Cyclohexanone cleans, lubricates, liquifies carbon, emulsifies water, and is an oil antioxidant. Good stuff - and LC is the only company using this ingredient.

Linky below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclohexanone

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Hey, that was me!!!! All I want for Christmas ....

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

cut who in line?

I got my case like a week something maybe 3 weeks ago

muhahahahahahAHAHAHA!

Have 2 bottles left from my last box, gonna finish it this month and ready to use the new one.

MacSav

How about this premix oil?

Does it look good?

http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produ...lang_1/163.pdf

Jax_RX8

Elf makes excellent products. This appears to be a very impressive 2-cycle oil from a protection/wear standpoint, although it is somewhat expensive (at least here in the US) at about $46 for 4-1 liter bottles. If you are running catless, it would be a good choice.

For that matter, if you are cat-free, you can use about anything as long as it passes one of the modern standards (NMMA TCW3, JASO FC/FD, or ISO - so that it you know it will not clog things up).

If you are running a catalyst, again, I would be very selective. Even though this ELF oil is a 100% Ester oil based 2-cycle, the brochure references the additives used to meet the extreme protection standards they are claiming, and these additives would likely not be so kind to your catalyst over time.

Before I would use any of these Motorcycle 2-cycle oils in a car with a catalyst, I would call to see if they are considered "cat-safe" as most are not and are designed for 2-cycle off-road motorcycles that have no cat.

savedsol

Why not just use Idemitsu? Why is everyone looking for something else?