Gas/Oil Premix Thread
12-16-2010, 01:20 PM
#3005
Lubricious
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An oil-based premix and gasoline are compatible fluids that should be soluble in each other. This isn't an emulsion, but a solution. Once mixed they should stay mixed indefinitely and without any special additive agent.
But back to the water issue -- what is the purpose of "flushing" the glass with water? And then the second oil appears to have been added to the glass still wet with water. This appears to be the cause of the "crackly" appearance. But then again we would never expect oil to mix with water. So what is the point?
12-16-2010, 01:34 PM
#3006
But back to the water issue -- what is the purpose of "flushing" the glass with water? And then the second oil appears to have been added to the glass still wet with water. This appears to be the cause of the "crackly" appearance. But then again we would never expect oil to mix with water. So what is the point?
As far as why i flushed...well i guess I was experimenting to see what residue was left behind. Would it be better to just drain it without flushing?
12-16-2010, 01:36 PM
#3007
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But back to the water issue -- what is the purpose of "flushing" the glass with water? And then the second oil appears to have been added to the glass still wet with water. This appears to be the cause of the "crackly" appearance. But then again we would never expect oil to mix with water. So what is the point?
12-16-2010, 04:05 PM
#3009
Filth in a world of Clean
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No, emulsions are mixes of 2 incompatible liquids. Like oil and water. Typically this requires an "emulsifying agent". For example, mayonnaise is an emulsification of oil and vinegar. The emulsifying agent is traditionally egg yolk. But we're not interested in creating an emulsion with pre-mix.
An oil-based premix and gasoline are compatible fluids that should be soluble in each other. This isn't an emulsion, but a solution. Once mixed they should stay mixed indefinitely and without any special additive agent.
An oil-based premix and gasoline are compatible fluids that should be soluble in each other. This isn't an emulsion, but a solution. Once mixed they should stay mixed indefinitely and without any special additive agent.
12-17-2010, 01:00 AM
#3011
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You are right, made the noob mistake of using a glass that I had just washed. I need to redo that test anyway mainly because it is too dark to see any information from the fluid.
As far as why i flushed...well i guess I was experimenting to see what residue was left behind. Would it be better to just drain it without flushing?
As far as why i flushed...well i guess I was experimenting to see what residue was left behind. Would it be better to just drain it without flushing?
12-18-2010, 02:16 AM
#3012
Here's a good experiment:
Get a 2 gallon gas can. Put 1 oz of Idemitsu in it, then put 2 gallons of gas in it direct from a fuel pump at the gas station. Notice that the nozzle practically sprays the fuel into the can. Imagine how well the oil & fuel mix based on that flow velocity & the churn in the can.
Now, if you are still unconvinced things are well mixed, go ahead and pour some in a glass and take a picture.
If it floats your boat, try the same thing with a FP+ & Idemitsu cocktail.
Get a 2 gallon gas can. Put 1 oz of Idemitsu in it, then put 2 gallons of gas in it direct from a fuel pump at the gas station. Notice that the nozzle practically sprays the fuel into the can. Imagine how well the oil & fuel mix based on that flow velocity & the churn in the can.
Now, if you are still unconvinced things are well mixed, go ahead and pour some in a glass and take a picture.
If it floats your boat, try the same thing with a FP+ & Idemitsu cocktail.
Last edited by GeorgeH; 12-18-2010 at 02:19 AM.
12-18-2010, 02:40 AM
#3013
Super Moderator
Here's a good experiment:
Get a 2 gallon gas can. Put 1 oz of Idemitsu in it, then put 2 gallons of gas in it direct from a fuel pump at the gas station. Notice that the nozzle practically sprays the fuel into the can. Imagine how well the oil & fuel mix based on that flow velocity & the churn in the can.
Now, if you are still unconvinced things are well mixed, go ahead and pour some in a glass and take a picture.
If it floats your boat, try the same thing with a FP+ & Idemitsu cocktail.
Get a 2 gallon gas can. Put 1 oz of Idemitsu in it, then put 2 gallons of gas in it direct from a fuel pump at the gas station. Notice that the nozzle practically sprays the fuel into the can. Imagine how well the oil & fuel mix based on that flow velocity & the churn in the can.
Now, if you are still unconvinced things are well mixed, go ahead and pour some in a glass and take a picture.
If it floats your boat, try the same thing with a FP+ & Idemitsu cocktail.
I had a Clear container of 1 litre High Octane Petrol (sorry Gas), put in 4 mils of Saber Pro, the Oil dissipated VERY evenly with only the slightest of movement of 1 litre clear Gas bottle.
Cant speak of other products or cocktails (don't use them or fuel cleaners), however I am more than satisfied with my procedure of just dumping all Amsoil in Tank and then filling up. Once mobile then doing a few hard left right, left right movements with the car.
Anything more IMO is just overkill, unnecessary and soon a tiresome method.
Yes, mine is not perfect, but....has been fine for me for over 2 years.
Edit..
BTW..Have stored experiment for months with NO Separation.
Gas from bowser nozzle to car has to travel down 2 feet of pipe Before it reaches cars Fuel Tank(s), by that time the gas would be a even pour or stream entering tank inlet.
Last edited by ASH8; 12-18-2010 at 02:50 AM.
12-18-2010, 11:39 AM
#3014
^100% agree. I do the petrol-can "experiment" all the time in the summer, since I need to keep a few gallons on hand for autocrossing (prefer to run with a light fuel load for the "big" races). Stuff mixes up just fine simply from the act of filling the gas tank.
12-19-2010, 10:32 AM
#3017
So I've driven through 2 tanks of premixing with FP Plus from Lube Control. I use to premix with Royal Purple TCW-III. I've noticed the following improvements:
- Better idle quality
- Mileage has improved. I can drive about 280 miles per tank usually but with the FP Plus I hit 300 before I needed to refuel.
- Starting when the car is cold is MUCH faster. 1-2 cranks is all it takes. With Royal Purple as a premix the engine started much slower, usually 3-4 cranks.
12-19-2010, 10:55 AM
#3018
Nature vs. Nurture
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Given the very light consistensy of FP+, I don't think it is helping with your apex seals. I am sure it is a good cleaner and may help lubricate the fuel pump, but I think we need more than just our dirty sump oil libricating the apex seals - even if it starts a little harder. I just moved up to .75 oz Amsoil Saber Pro from .5. Batteries are cheaper than a rebuild.
01-01-2011, 10:59 AM
#3020
Nature vs. Nurture
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I am going to start a thread for expert discussion of this:
http://legendperformance.com/article5.asp
I am not an expert, but I am especially concerned about losing compression since I am using a synthetic (Amsoil Saber Pro). One of the big reasons I am using is is because I like that it is designed for use at 100:1. I am now using 200:1 because of some good advice here.
I wonder if the synthetic could be cleaned off with FP+ once a month?
http://legendperformance.com/article5.asp
I am not an expert, but I am especially concerned about losing compression since I am using a synthetic (Amsoil Saber Pro). One of the big reasons I am using is is because I like that it is designed for use at 100:1. I am now using 200:1 because of some good advice here.
I wonder if the synthetic could be cleaned off with FP+ once a month?
01-01-2011, 11:10 AM
#3022
Lucky you! Synthetic is higher quality and is probably JASO FD instead of FC. Any oil, synthetic or otherwise will burn up when driving hard.
That's why the engine keeps squirting more.
Most carbon on the seals is gasoline misfire related, not oil.
IMO that cleaners in the fuel should be used for cleaning the injectors as when your car doesn't idle stable, and the track day is for cleaning the carbon.
That's why the engine keeps squirting more.
Most carbon on the seals is gasoline misfire related, not oil.
IMO that cleaners in the fuel should be used for cleaning the injectors as when your car doesn't idle stable, and the track day is for cleaning the carbon.
Last edited by REDRX3RX8; 01-01-2011 at 11:17 AM.
01-01-2011, 11:15 AM
#3024
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I am going to start a thread for expert discussion of this:
http://legendperformance.com/article5.asp
I am not an expert, but I am especially concerned about losing compression since I am using a synthetic (Amsoil Saber Pro). One of the big reasons I am using is is because I like that it is designed for use at 100:1. I am now using 200:1 because of some good advice here.
I wonder if the synthetic could be cleaned off with FP+ once a month?
http://legendperformance.com/article5.asp
I am not an expert, but I am especially concerned about losing compression since I am using a synthetic (Amsoil Saber Pro). One of the big reasons I am using is is because I like that it is designed for use at 100:1. I am now using 200:1 because of some good advice here.
I wonder if the synthetic could be cleaned off with FP+ once a month?
Stop believing this synthetics don't burn crap useless people are perpetuating.
Also, ASP is full of detergents, there is no need for FP+, the only one I know of with more detergents is Amsoil Interceptor.
Just keep doing what you where doing, what you are currently using is right.
You know after all these gazillion pages, it almost seems like no one thinks to mention the one biggest problem (especially in the USA) for rotary engines. ETHANOL.
ITs a horribly destructive fuel. If you all should be scared of something its that useless government subsidized fuel. At 15% it could be very very bad for our engines.